Merged: Qantaslink Traineeship/Cadetship/General Employment
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ATPL subjects?
Qantas Trainee programme lists minimum requirements as all ATPL theory passes. Most of the people I know in NZ with CPLs up to 1000hr GA pilots have no ATPL subjects. Is this the same for OZ?
ie: for someone with CPL or even someone with up to 1000 hrs to apply for this, they'd need their ATPL subjects. Now, if you haven't done any of them and you decide to do them part time while working, and do them at a rate of 1 every two weeks, we're talking about 14 weeks...and realistically it will probably take a significantly greater amount of time..So effectively you either do them full time which would involve binning your job (which is probably not an option for those of us who like food or shelter) or you take the next 6 to 9 months to get your ATPLs part time if you want to apply...or can you apply and tell them you'll have the ATPLs done by the start date of the course in the event you get accepted?
It sort of limits the applicant pool in my mind...while you're busy charging the cadet for this that and the other, why not offer an ATPL theory course (at a price of course...this isn't Cathay we're talking about...) as well and that way you widen the applicant pool, presumably being able to pick 'better' cadets? Can anyone shed any light on this situation?
ie: for someone with CPL or even someone with up to 1000 hrs to apply for this, they'd need their ATPL subjects. Now, if you haven't done any of them and you decide to do them part time while working, and do them at a rate of 1 every two weeks, we're talking about 14 weeks...and realistically it will probably take a significantly greater amount of time..So effectively you either do them full time which would involve binning your job (which is probably not an option for those of us who like food or shelter) or you take the next 6 to 9 months to get your ATPLs part time if you want to apply...or can you apply and tell them you'll have the ATPLs done by the start date of the course in the event you get accepted?
It sort of limits the applicant pool in my mind...while you're busy charging the cadet for this that and the other, why not offer an ATPL theory course (at a price of course...this isn't Cathay we're talking about...) as well and that way you widen the applicant pool, presumably being able to pick 'better' cadets? Can anyone shed any light on this situation?
Last edited by hueyshuffle; 13th Jun 2010 at 01:09. Reason: grammar etc..
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@huey
Last recruitment of trainee's without ATPL's didnt end so well, as everyone was running around trying to get their subjects done in a short amount of time. So they changed the minimum requirments, but who knows just apply and see what happens.
Anyone heard anything from them yet?
Last recruitment of trainee's without ATPL's didnt end so well, as everyone was running around trying to get their subjects done in a short amount of time. So they changed the minimum requirments, but who knows just apply and see what happens.
Anyone heard anything from them yet?
There is a big culture difference as far as ATPLs go between NZ and Australia.
In NZ the ATPLs are something you (generally) need for airline command only. In fact, as there is a flight test requirement, which in 99% of cases is done as a part of a command upgrade, and if one was to do the exams too early the credit may even expire before that person gets a chance to make command. The result would be either having to re-sit them all or to pay out of ones own pocket for a check ride in a pressurised aircraft.
In Australia the ATPL subjects are (generally) needed for even an F/O position at the smallest of turboprop operators. I don't know why, but that's just the way it is here. Perhaps sometime 100 years ago we were stung with a lot of people that simply weren't capable of passing the exams. Who knows! Australia also has a smaller percentage of (ex)instructors amongst the pilot population, so the brush-up on aviation knowledge is probably useful for many. Although, once again, that brush-up would probably be a lot more beneficial closer to airline time then it is for all those doing the ATPLs as a follow-on immediately after getting a CPL.
I think there should be a two-tier ATPL system. One set of exams for freshly minted CPLs and one set for guys that already have the hour requirements for the ATPL!
In NZ the ATPLs are something you (generally) need for airline command only. In fact, as there is a flight test requirement, which in 99% of cases is done as a part of a command upgrade, and if one was to do the exams too early the credit may even expire before that person gets a chance to make command. The result would be either having to re-sit them all or to pay out of ones own pocket for a check ride in a pressurised aircraft.
In Australia the ATPL subjects are (generally) needed for even an F/O position at the smallest of turboprop operators. I don't know why, but that's just the way it is here. Perhaps sometime 100 years ago we were stung with a lot of people that simply weren't capable of passing the exams. Who knows! Australia also has a smaller percentage of (ex)instructors amongst the pilot population, so the brush-up on aviation knowledge is probably useful for many. Although, once again, that brush-up would probably be a lot more beneficial closer to airline time then it is for all those doing the ATPLs as a follow-on immediately after getting a CPL.
I think there should be a two-tier ATPL system. One set of exams for freshly minted CPLs and one set for guys that already have the hour requirements for the ATPL!
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ATPL exams and CASA/CAA ATPLs
haileybury777 & glekichi
Thanks for the info. So pretty much most of the australians applying for the cadet scheme will have their atpl subjects then?
For anyone who's interested-latest ASL 'newsletter' talked about the large numbers of New Zealanders going over to Oz to do their ATPL exams because its more convenient as there's no flight test. CAA/ASL are working ''closely'' with CASA to 'sort the situation out'. Whatever that means. I'm guessing that route will be off the cards for NZers soon or the CASA lot will get ATPL flight tests for you fellas. Anyone with more info please do let on..Sorry about the the drift off topic.
Ours is not to question why....
Thanks for the info. So pretty much most of the australians applying for the cadet scheme will have their atpl subjects then?
For anyone who's interested-latest ASL 'newsletter' talked about the large numbers of New Zealanders going over to Oz to do their ATPL exams because its more convenient as there's no flight test. CAA/ASL are working ''closely'' with CASA to 'sort the situation out'. Whatever that means. I'm guessing that route will be off the cards for NZers soon or the CASA lot will get ATPL flight tests for you fellas. Anyone with more info please do let on..Sorry about the the drift off topic.
Ours is not to question why....
Last edited by hueyshuffle; 13th Jun 2010 at 06:51.
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Hueyshuffle, you can quite easily do the Oz ATPLs by distance learning with AFT. I did all seven this way and although it took sometime to get through all of them, you can do it at your own pace which is convenient when you're also working full-time. Check out their website; Advanced Flight Theory
There's no hurry to get them all done, mate. There are two more intakes for the Qantaslink traineeship in 2010; one in September and another in December. So take your time and enjoy the subjects. They're a lot more interesting than CPL theory. Flight Planning was my favourite although it can be a little tricky. Enjoy!
There's no hurry to get them all done, mate. There are two more intakes for the Qantaslink traineeship in 2010; one in September and another in December. So take your time and enjoy the subjects. They're a lot more interesting than CPL theory. Flight Planning was my favourite although it can be a little tricky. Enjoy!
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Job prospects on completion?
The thing that i'm wondering is: what are the real prospects of actually being employed by Qlink soon after completion of the 6-week course? The wording states "a graduate will be offered a First Officer position in QantasLink upon a vacant position being available". That could be straightaway - or it could be a couple of years. While it does seem the industry is picking up, how much immediate need for these new FO trainees will Qlink have? Ie: are there many if any vacant positions now or in the near future?
EDIT:
Also if you look in the faq on the program website, it states: "Upon successful completion of the Trainee Program, Graduates will be offered employment opportunities with QantasLink on a competitive basis, as employment opportunities arise."
How competitive? I wonder how many positions there will be available on each course vs how many FO slots are expected to be available.
EDIT:
Also if you look in the faq on the program website, it states: "Upon successful completion of the Trainee Program, Graduates will be offered employment opportunities with QantasLink on a competitive basis, as employment opportunities arise."
How competitive? I wonder how many positions there will be available on each course vs how many FO slots are expected to be available.
Last edited by RogerRamjet01; 14th Jun 2010 at 00:59.
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I thik you will find that the airlines are "hedging their bets" by setting up training organisations. These things take time, and they are now in a position to quickly train pilots IF and When they may need them.
They also have contacts with potential pilots (but no contracts).
This is a big step forward, and what they should have always done. I think provisional contracts with potential trainees is the logical next step, but this won't happen while there is a surplus of applicants.
The previous "obscene lottery" system has almost destroyed GA by flooding it with transient low time pilots and "ICUS" sellers.
What happens in GA usually flows on to airlines, and they are now faced with lots of pilots who want to be "transient" and use the operation as a stepping stone to bigger things. (just like GA)
So airlines are obviously looking for ways to keep pilots and reduce training costs by bonding pilots and using low time F/O's.
If anyone knows when the next burst of airline expansion will occur he wil be able to get lots of big fees from the airlines. They don't know either.
They also have contacts with potential pilots (but no contracts).
This is a big step forward, and what they should have always done. I think provisional contracts with potential trainees is the logical next step, but this won't happen while there is a surplus of applicants.
The previous "obscene lottery" system has almost destroyed GA by flooding it with transient low time pilots and "ICUS" sellers.
What happens in GA usually flows on to airlines, and they are now faced with lots of pilots who want to be "transient" and use the operation as a stepping stone to bigger things. (just like GA)
So airlines are obviously looking for ways to keep pilots and reduce training costs by bonding pilots and using low time F/O's.
If anyone knows when the next burst of airline expansion will occur he wil be able to get lots of big fees from the airlines. They don't know either.
When you live....
Risk vs Reward?
Declaring my vested interest up front - I was one of the batch of original trainees accepted into the scheme and given a conditional acceptance - the ONLY condition being that I had to complete my ATPLs in 3 months. I dropped everything and achieved this, sent off the results and then received a letter stating that the scheme was on hold and we would be contacted when it restarted. This makes me one of those screwed by QL who want us to a) go back to square one and re-apply and b) if we are re-accepted, do so under different terms and conditions.
Add to this past behaviour by QL, the changed conditions:
- you pay up front
- they are under no obligation to give you a job (competetive process, if and when)
and you appear to be putting up $18k in a complete gamble that something might happen in the future.
I'm sure plenty of people will apply, most (?) will get the job they want but be certain that when you sign up, you may be in for an expensive bill for 6 weeks of training that gives you nothing.
UTR.
Add to this past behaviour by QL, the changed conditions:
- you pay up front
- they are under no obligation to give you a job (competetive process, if and when)
and you appear to be putting up $18k in a complete gamble that something might happen in the future.
I'm sure plenty of people will apply, most (?) will get the job they want but be certain that when you sign up, you may be in for an expensive bill for 6 weeks of training that gives you nothing.
UTR.
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Q-Link Cadet Program
All,
I know there has been much said about the J* cadetship. I was wanting to know if anyone had applied and heard back from the Q-Link Cadetship?
"Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."
Flagg
I know there has been much said about the J* cadetship. I was wanting to know if anyone had applied and heard back from the Q-Link Cadetship?
"Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."
Flagg
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Responses
I heard back by email this morning and missed out on this intake. I have low hours and little recency but I had the minimums. I would be interested to know for those who got past the application stage what sort of hours etc they have.
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Last Traineeship, in 2008. People with Bare CPL's were getting interviews.
People with bare CPL's MECIR and ATPLs also got through..
What they are looking for this time around looks like a bit more experience...
I applied, got the email today.... Met all minimum requirements...
I wouldn't consider my Total Time low though..
People with bare CPL's MECIR and ATPLs also got through..
What they are looking for this time around looks like a bit more experience...
I applied, got the email today.... Met all minimum requirements...
I wouldn't consider my Total Time low though..
It's competitively based....in the first couple of rounds last traineeship course most had at least 1000 hours with MECIR and ATPL's then as the rounds progressed obviously the experience level wasnt as high and some infact didnt have instrument ratings. From what I have heard there will only be a handful of applicants in each round this time so obviously the more experience one has the greater chance. Best of luck to all apply!
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The Hill
The Hill, did you not get your application in on time? I don't see how you could have applied late? Wasn't it just a matter of getting it in before the cut off date then you couldn't even if you tried?