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Old 20th May 2010, 09:10   #261 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 28
Posts: 54
has anyone actually doing this course posted their thoughts on this forum?? I hear a lot of bad things from the outside. I am seriously considering doing this course - but what do the actual cadets themselves think of it?
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Old 21st May 2010, 08:40   #262 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dark Side OF Moon Or SE Qld
Age: 34
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I apologise for my late response.

So what your saying Piper, is that operators of Metros, will automatically stick a pilot with just 2 years GA experience to captain without starting as a F/O?
Yes, some will. It took me 3 years though, not 2.

Failing that, your saying that Metro operators pay their pilots well above the Pilots award wage (as the award for Metros is several K less than a Saab.
Once again, yes, I know of Operators that pay over and above the award.

PPRuNe is filled with people complaining about how poor the money for pilots is in GA as are those in the industry in general - though they're just my observations. Maybe you can give us some examples of GA operators who do pay their pilots good rates?
I know of several, but I find the ones who whinge and complain, don't bother to go and find a better operator either, so why should they be spoon fed?

Anyway it appears they don't want me.
Sorry to hear that. So will you still persue a flying career even though you won't get to wear the train drivers hat?

nt pilot,

You may find the cadets have been told to keep thier mouths shut. Happy to be corrected on this one though.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:11   #263 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: East Coast of Oz
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Of course the cadets have been told to stay off PPRuNe and minions from Baxter Rd reads these threads.

Just to put it back out there.... ICUS program. Extremely close to being approved by CASA from what I have heard leaking out of Baxstabber Rd. Heard it won't be a blanket approval and open season on logging ICUS but will have an approval process on individual basis and not everyone will be approved.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:15   #264 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 28
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How would you compare a cadetship like this to the cathay one - obviously you have to self fund this one and with cathay it is funded by the airline. But other things like career progression - would be ever get any command time at rex? surely since the flights are so short there would be very few chances to get your multi engine command hours up... but with cathay you would have a chance as a second officer -but are you really prepared to fly a a330 with 200 hours experience? I am trying to weigh up the pro's and cons of both, if only SIA opened there cadetship up to australians too!
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:28   #265 (permalink)
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Location: Sydney Australia
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What's interesting Curved', is that for the first time in history an open request for expressions of interest for training Captains has been advertised via an Operations memo? Previously it would be by "invitation only". A phone Call or a tap on the shoulder from upon high, but only to the select few. Recently however experience has not been a factor, as evidenced by the appointment of of some very junior Captains. All you needed was the right "Attitude"!

Now it seems that the net has been cast wider. Perhaps an ICUS program dependant on having a qualified Training Captain in the Right seat. You'll certainly get no arguement from me on that point. I've been saying it is the only way it should be conducted for some time. It would be dependant on a significant increase in Training Captains though.

Could be the two are going together?
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Old 19th Jul 2010, 02:51   #266 (permalink)

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Location: Sydney
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Rex Cadet Scheme Testing

Hi Guys,

To all those that have applied for the REX Cadet program... Apart from your initial application and interview I was wondering what else is involved in the recruitment process. Do they have a testing day where you have to complete aptitude, maths, psych, WOMBAT tests etc?

Thanks for any information you might have.
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Old 20th Jul 2010, 15:02   #267 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,115
Having spent the past year or so coaching well over a hundred candidates from all over Australia going for the major domestic airlines the general standard seen of their piloting skills has been extraordinary good. Their hours varied from 2000 to 5000 so there is certainly no shortage of experienced pilots. All have done the hard yards in remote areas with many having startling stories to tell. All were keen to get out of general aviation into an airliner - and not necessarily for the money, either. In the majority of cases they had wide experience at night dodging thunderstorms in wet seasons and no radar either. That sort of experience is priceless and I hope the airlines fully appreciate this. But some don't. The accent on Human Factors at interviews is fine but it would be a great pity and a waste of hard won flying experience if some get knocked back because of a wrong answer in a theoretical flight planning exercise.

What disturbs me though, is despite such a highly experienced number of GA pilots out there sweating on flying for an airline, the cadet schemes are steadily forging ahead and fast tracking their CPL graduates into the second in command position of jets and turbo-props. In other words, pilots with long exposure to real weather decision making and good airmanship borne of scary nights dodging storms, are cast aside for pilots who have the spare dollars to bypass real flying experience and into a buy-a job scheme common in European airlines and in SE Asia.

The latest issue of Australian Aviation magazine at page 29, has a news update by a journalist Ellis Taylor in which he interviews the Managing Director of Oxford Air Training where cadet pilots start off on their route to the right hand seat of a jet.
The interview was quite tame and if the journalist did ask searching questions about the wisdom of having low hour cadets in the second in command seat, those questions didn't appear in the article.

A sample of extracts edited from the interview follow: "Oxford Air Training will offer a first in our region by equipping and fully qualifying graduates from our own cadet pilot training programme as part of our experienced pilot group. So with 250 hours they will be in the right hand seat of an Airbus A320.".

My comment: Passengers on those A320 will have no idea that the second in command on their aircraft is merely a junior apprentice - despite having nominal legal qualification. Should the captain be incapacitated (birdstrike in the face, maybe) then the passengers are in the capable (?) hands of a 250-500 hour cadet. Maybe that explains why the the OAA spokesman chose his words carefully using the words "right hand seat of an A320" - rather than "second in command of an A320".
Experienced pilots know the real difference. Passengers probably don't.
Of course, as these inexperienced cadets build up hours on type the initial risk factor diminishes but there is no denying that for the first six months their captains will be flying virtually single-handed. Is CASA concerned? Not really. As long as it is legal. Of course, in preparing cadet training programmes, the airlines would have known this and conducted a risk analysis and what with the money saved have found it is safe.

While on the subject of airline flight safety. The latest issue of Flight International editorial comment has this to say: "Many airline operations and training departments look at someone else's accident and see it as just that: someone else's. It does not relate to that."

It would interesting to see details of overseas airline accidents where the cadet second in command was a factor in the cause of the accident. It would be nice to be certain that CASA is already way ahead of us and already researched these accidents and decided it wouldn't happen in our own backyard. No worries, mate. This is Australia.

Last edited by Tee Emm; 20th Jul 2010 at 15:19.
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Old 21st Jul 2010, 01:23   #268 (permalink)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tropical Australia
Posts: 113
"Of course, in preparing cadet training programmes, the airlines would have known this and conducted a risk analysis and what with the money saved have found it is safe."

Perhaps what the airlines are implying is that modern jet airliners are so easy to fly that even a low hour pilot can do it?

I doubt that is the case but the airlines don't seem particularly worried about low hour pilots controlling the plane; maybe it really is safe? I wonder what the captains involved think about having low hour pilots as 2-I-C? I would have thought that GA experience would have been preferable and invaluable but it seems not???
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