REX. Knocking back quailified pilots
Tintin I'm confused... Are you for:
Or against:
cadet programs???
We deserve good working conditions with these cadet jobs and there is nothing all you experienced pilots can do to stop it happening.
Going bush and being treated like dirt by some dodgy GA operator to gain flying hours is a thing of the past. It is 2007 we deserve to be treated like any of the other professional occupations such as Doctors, Lawyers & Dentists.
Going bush and being treated like dirt by some dodgy GA operator to gain flying hours is a thing of the past. It is 2007 we deserve to be treated like any of the other professional occupations such as Doctors, Lawyers & Dentists.
The point I am trying to make is any command time is going to make you better at making decisions when you have to step into the Captains shoes.
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My position on Cadet programs is that I think they are great but I feel some experienced pilots are not very happy about having to Captain a plane with a low-time first officer next to them. I really believe there will be some experienced pilots who will make life difficult for these cadets because they did not do the hard yards in GA so they will not give them the support they need.
When it comes to experience what I fear is that the lack of command time these cadets will have might be a curse when it comes to flying on the so called infamous Dark & Stormy Night if they need to step into the Captain's shoes. I know I would like to have a bit of command experience before I have a few hundred people out the back that I am responsible for if something happened to the Captain.
Maybe they can simulate Dark & Stormy nights in the simulator yet if it gets too hard they can always turn it off. Unlike when they are flying a real plane.
I am supportive of the cadet programs but I have to question whether these cadets will get trained properly or just churned out because the industry needs pilots?
When it comes to experience what I fear is that the lack of command time these cadets will have might be a curse when it comes to flying on the so called infamous Dark & Stormy Night if they need to step into the Captain's shoes. I know I would like to have a bit of command experience before I have a few hundred people out the back that I am responsible for if something happened to the Captain.
Maybe they can simulate Dark & Stormy nights in the simulator yet if it gets too hard they can always turn it off. Unlike when they are flying a real plane.
I am supportive of the cadet programs but I have to question whether these cadets will get trained properly or just churned out because the industry needs pilots?
Last edited by TINTIN25; 1st Oct 2007 at 11:08.
AustralianMade
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Well I'll be...
Strewth, I actually agree with you there... not a bad post Tintin.
Keep going like that and people might stop giving you a hard time.
Errr... except for this bit:
Keep going like that and people might stop giving you a hard time.
Errr... except for this bit:
responcible
Seasonally Adjusted
These "dark and stormy nights" are overrated. I would bet my last dollar that any serious 'non-normal' or Captain incapacitation would happen in the cruise with 8/8 clear blue just as you are dunking the gingernut into the coffee. Just my thoughts, what were we talking about again?
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Originally Posted by joehunt
A young cadet can be molded and programmed to airline operations beginning from day one.
Therein lies perhaps its greatest strength (remains to be seen) and potentially its greatest weakness. God forbid we ever find out.
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Re: Generation Y
Its all happening for Generation Y
There's more of us filtering up the ladder, and you're going to have to deal with it. So are operators. And they are.
FACT: We wont have spent the years that you Boomers/GenX guys have to get this far. But that doesnt make us bad. Or bad pilots. Alot of us still did time up north etc, just spent considerably less time in it! And if you were in the same position, wouldnt you be doing the same?
You should be happy that times are this good, and pass on your wealth of experience we do not have so that we may keep the status quo older generations have maintained. Lets hope the wealth of experience isnt going to disappear overseas or out of regional turboprop operators due to the current movement so that this may occur.
While some are looking to retire in the next decade, its the GenY that have a good 30-40 years left in the industry. We need to learn from all the industrial problems that existed in the past (89, low pay etc) and make sure we have a good industry to have a career in.
...disco
There's more of us filtering up the ladder, and you're going to have to deal with it. So are operators. And they are.
FACT: We wont have spent the years that you Boomers/GenX guys have to get this far. But that doesnt make us bad. Or bad pilots. Alot of us still did time up north etc, just spent considerably less time in it! And if you were in the same position, wouldnt you be doing the same?
You should be happy that times are this good, and pass on your wealth of experience we do not have so that we may keep the status quo older generations have maintained. Lets hope the wealth of experience isnt going to disappear overseas or out of regional turboprop operators due to the current movement so that this may occur.
While some are looking to retire in the next decade, its the GenY that have a good 30-40 years left in the industry. We need to learn from all the industrial problems that existed in the past (89, low pay etc) and make sure we have a good industry to have a career in.
...disco
When you live....
Gen Y vs everyone else
Chaps,
I think the Gen X vs Gen Y vs Greybeard vs "done the apprenticeship up north" argument that this has developed into is not the point.
Rex (and the other entry level RPT operators) probably don't give a monkey's how old you are or where you came from. What they want is stability (Rex possibly a bad example when you look at other threads on T&Cs etc) and minimal pilot turnover.
They know cadets will be with them into the future. They know that pilots not far below the 'major' entry requirements won't. Feedback I'm getting is that a number of organisations have identified that their ideal candidite is one who will stick around and so 'published' requirements will be very quickly discarded for the prospect who meets that profile (and possibly also has some other 'life skills' that could be of benefit).
It's unfortunate but I can see a large group of pilots stuck in the middle into the future - by following what was the 'right' path, they've now got too much experience for the smaller RPTs but still not enough for the majors.
UTR
I think the Gen X vs Gen Y vs Greybeard vs "done the apprenticeship up north" argument that this has developed into is not the point.
Rex (and the other entry level RPT operators) probably don't give a monkey's how old you are or where you came from. What they want is stability (Rex possibly a bad example when you look at other threads on T&Cs etc) and minimal pilot turnover.
They know cadets will be with them into the future. They know that pilots not far below the 'major' entry requirements won't. Feedback I'm getting is that a number of organisations have identified that their ideal candidite is one who will stick around and so 'published' requirements will be very quickly discarded for the prospect who meets that profile (and possibly also has some other 'life skills' that could be of benefit).
It's unfortunate but I can see a large group of pilots stuck in the middle into the future - by following what was the 'right' path, they've now got too much experience for the smaller RPTs but still not enough for the majors.
UTR
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A very good post UTR.
And I have often wondered about this point too:
Seems to be true from my observations.
And I have often wondered about this point too:
...so 'published' requirements will be very quickly discarded for the prospect who meets that profile (and possibly also has some other 'life skills' that could be of benefit).
Funny thing is, I was just saying the very same thing to a Cathay mate who popped over for a few "Cooper-Pale ales" last night.
There's no way we would have spent time in PNG, getting that bush cunning if more opportunities had been present in Oz.
Look at Europe, they have no hesitation in promoting low time cadet pilots into high capacity RPT, and their weather and traffic volumes are no-where near as benevolant as ours.
Lets face it the new A/bus and Boeing are so foolproof you really have to make a fist of it before you will auger a new hole in th deck!
Therein lies the escape clause for all the accountants who presently drive operations at all the major airlines. They will run fatiguing rosters with inexperienced crews knowing the nice new shiny jets will scream out a warning before the sh*t hits the N1.
There's no way we would have spent time in PNG, getting that bush cunning if more opportunities had been present in Oz.
Look at Europe, they have no hesitation in promoting low time cadet pilots into high capacity RPT, and their weather and traffic volumes are no-where near as benevolant as ours.
Lets face it the new A/bus and Boeing are so foolproof you really have to make a fist of it before you will auger a new hole in th deck!
Therein lies the escape clause for all the accountants who presently drive operations at all the major airlines. They will run fatiguing rosters with inexperienced crews knowing the nice new shiny jets will scream out a warning before the sh*t hits the N1.
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Ah yeah, but when the warning is screamed out and the $%it hits the N1, what is the Captain /FO/SO going to do about it. It's all roses until the sh*t hits the fan. No matter how easy they make these tubes fly they still need a decision maker.
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"Experience means nothing"
Or your pilot letting down into a CB studded tropical Is runway with a bung AP and primary EFIS failure...wait a minute...
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Lets face it the new A/bus and Boeing are so foolproof you really have to make a fist of it before you will auger a new hole in th deck!
Therein lies the escape clause for all the accountants who presently drive operations at all the major airlines. They will run fatiguing rosters with inexperienced crews knowing the nice new shiny jets will scream out a warning before the sh*t hits the N1.
Therein lies the escape clause for all the accountants who presently drive operations at all the major airlines. They will run fatiguing rosters with inexperienced crews knowing the nice new shiny jets will scream out a warning before the sh*t hits the N1.
As good as the SAAB is, it WILL stall. it WILL Ice up. it WILL descend into terrain if you tell it to. as will a DHC-8.
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As good as the SAAB is, it WILL stall. it WILL Ice up. it WILL descend into terrain if you tell it to. as will a DHC-8
Even FBW aircraft with envelope protection can stall or fly into the ground or ice up
Cadets properly screened and trained are EVERY bit as capable at operating a semi complex light turboprop twin
