ASL NZ Poor Standard of testing officer?
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NZ
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sharpen up troops
Now let's see.........
The boy's are not happy that they are failing.
Having completed tests with EA , RDeM , HB , yes I had the tee shirt........."I failed with Harold" on the front and on the back it said "TWICE" ! PCS , and PD (top bloke) I feel in a position to comment on DW.
As I know the particular chap and having discussed many topics ranging from current IFR procedures and everything concerning Pof F (first 9 chapters of Kermode) and know that he's the business.
Now see the engine at the top........weeeell..... if you feel like that's your hand on the thrust levers you have to 'deliver' to be in seat 0B. To be of a professional standard you will have to get used to being scrutinized and checked at each level.........get used to it because that is the nature of this 'beast' called Aviation.
You may call DW a tool.
But always remember that a bad workman blames his tools.
The ball is in your court, 7Ps will see you right
Prior Planning Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Take the challenge troops and look forward to seeing you in 0B.
Cheers
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Not on this planet
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i will not comment on the ethics or standards of any testing officer - but would like to put this out in the open...
The testing officers are now being paid a commission [a substiantial amount] per flight test. This includes resits.
To me this could create a serious conflict of interest. good on ya ASL.
The testing officers are now being paid a commission [a substiantial amount] per flight test. This includes resits.
To me this could create a serious conflict of interest. good on ya ASL.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saturn
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The trick with DW on IFR is to get the student knowing more than he seems to... I'm sure he is a good enough pilot in his own right and don't doubt his skills, and outside flying he's not a bad bloke... but let's face it he seems a little out of his depth in some aspects of issuing licences and ratings. A bit of time in SEIFR General Aviation should see him right!
And on the pay note, only some of the testing officers (such as WB) are on a 'by the test' pay scheme. DW will be on a salary.
That said, ASL still get paid by the test... and by the RESIT. I wonder what the failure quota really is. Perhaps I should stop before I get
And on the pay note, only some of the testing officers (such as WB) are on a 'by the test' pay scheme. DW will be on a salary.
That said, ASL still get paid by the test... and by the RESIT. I wonder what the failure quota really is. Perhaps I should stop before I get
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Daghdaghistan
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Top of Descent is quite correct..
once you move into heavier aircraft, your career goes on the line every 6 months, get used to being tested... The big advantage though is that you are tested against a specific ops manual and procedure. Most things are black and white as set by the ops manual and S.O.Ps..
I too have flown with several of the intials named in this thread, not HB, but G.L, P.C.S, 'No-Pass Parker' and D.W.
Each examiner will always have a 'area of speciality' that they focus on. It will be an area in which they consider lacking or maybe not covered that well in the field of candidates that they have tested in the past.
They hammer this subject on many flight tests. D.W from memory likes to test low flying, P.C.S was reknowned for his knowledge of all things Kemode..
G.L well, I can't remember what it was but he is a great guy to fly with.
Scroogee is quite right... a flight test requirement is not to know about the examiner's hobbies etc..but do you just do the bare requirement and hope to get by? Its not a requirement to know Qantas' complete history when you go for a interview, but you'll look like a complete tool when you front up to the interview without even a basic understand of the company you want a job with. A little knowledge and forewarning doesn't go astray... how many people remember being told about P.C.S and sailing or his time in P.N.G.
It's more of a way to being able to relate to the examiner and put yourself at ease rather than trying to brown-nose your way to a pass....
If you've failed a flight test, a clear indication of where you failed should be given. It is up to you to fix any deficiencies in that area, as well as maybe covering other areas which you may feel need work. Use your flight instructor.
Flight examiners have a habit of finding a weakness, then exploiting it to the N-degree....
once you move into heavier aircraft, your career goes on the line every 6 months, get used to being tested... The big advantage though is that you are tested against a specific ops manual and procedure. Most things are black and white as set by the ops manual and S.O.Ps..
I too have flown with several of the intials named in this thread, not HB, but G.L, P.C.S, 'No-Pass Parker' and D.W.
Each examiner will always have a 'area of speciality' that they focus on. It will be an area in which they consider lacking or maybe not covered that well in the field of candidates that they have tested in the past.
They hammer this subject on many flight tests. D.W from memory likes to test low flying, P.C.S was reknowned for his knowledge of all things Kemode..
G.L well, I can't remember what it was but he is a great guy to fly with.
Scroogee is quite right... a flight test requirement is not to know about the examiner's hobbies etc..but do you just do the bare requirement and hope to get by? Its not a requirement to know Qantas' complete history when you go for a interview, but you'll look like a complete tool when you front up to the interview without even a basic understand of the company you want a job with. A little knowledge and forewarning doesn't go astray... how many people remember being told about P.C.S and sailing or his time in P.N.G.
It's more of a way to being able to relate to the examiner and put yourself at ease rather than trying to brown-nose your way to a pass....
If you've failed a flight test, a clear indication of where you failed should be given. It is up to you to fix any deficiencies in that area, as well as maybe covering other areas which you may feel need work. Use your flight instructor.
Flight examiners have a habit of finding a weakness, then exploiting it to the N-degree....
G the H
Lots of good advice in here. IMHO you should forget the reputation of the Testing Officer and just go fly the aeroplane.
There are others in here who can tell stories of check rides and command upgrade checks with those of variable ability and attitude (Now didn't I put that nicely). You can't escape them in the aviation business - you just have to deal with them.
Dr
Lots of good advice in here. IMHO you should forget the reputation of the Testing Officer and just go fly the aeroplane.
There are others in here who can tell stories of check rides and command upgrade checks with those of variable ability and attitude (Now didn't I put that nicely). You can't escape them in the aviation business - you just have to deal with them.
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 13th Aug 2007 at 10:15.
Guest
Posts: n/a
tail wheel,
Fair enough, but presumably some one who is carrying out flight tests for the issue or renewal of licences or ratings has had to jump through quite a few hoops on the way. What I am a little disturbed about is what are the qualifications and experience levels of the persons that he has apparently upset. If we are informed as to the flight test or renewal that was being performed at the time that this manifestation of lack of skills by the testing officer were displayed then perhaps the statements would be more credible. Was it an initial issue CPL, initial issue IF rating, initial issue SPIFR rating, or was it a renewal after many years in the system.
Just as a reference, my first IF check was with Harry Bielby, SPIFR check was with Reg Shand, and CPL flight test was with Clarry Berryman. T
There has been a lot water under the bridge since those days, and many checkrides with many a peccadillo to overcome since then.
Fair enough, but presumably some one who is carrying out flight tests for the issue or renewal of licences or ratings has had to jump through quite a few hoops on the way. What I am a little disturbed about is what are the qualifications and experience levels of the persons that he has apparently upset. If we are informed as to the flight test or renewal that was being performed at the time that this manifestation of lack of skills by the testing officer were displayed then perhaps the statements would be more credible. Was it an initial issue CPL, initial issue IF rating, initial issue SPIFR rating, or was it a renewal after many years in the system.
Just as a reference, my first IF check was with Harry Bielby, SPIFR check was with Reg Shand, and CPL flight test was with Clarry Berryman. T
There has been a lot water under the bridge since those days, and many checkrides with many a peccadillo to overcome since then.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: cloud9
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I agree scrooge that a flight examiner is there to do his job and not socialise with.
DW was my CFI when I was doing my CPL training, the fishing thing was a joke within the ranks of students where i was doing my training. Not trying to endorse brown nosing was just trying to keep things a little light hearted.
Just don't like to see a bloke get slaged off by people using second hand infomation and here say.
DW was my CFI when I was doing my CPL training, the fishing thing was a joke within the ranks of students where i was doing my training. Not trying to endorse brown nosing was just trying to keep things a little light hearted.
Just don't like to see a bloke get slaged off by people using second hand infomation and here say.
I did my RPPL test in Oz in 1973 with an infamous DCA Examiner of Airmen, ex Lufwaffe pilot JB. He got sprung on me unexpectedly because his intended victim did not front. I turned up at the Flying School one morning to do some solo practice for my forthcoming test, to be greeted with "You can go do your test this morning with Mr B. You're ready for it anyway".
As I went to pre-flight the aeroplane my Instructor said to me, "Remember to use plenty of power to control your descent on the short field landing. Mr B likes to see plenty of power".
So off we went!
As I climbed away from my forced landing Mr B said, "Ahhh, I do not know if we are alive or dead"!
For the short-field landing I hung that little C150 on the prop from about a mile out to touch-down and pulled up just off the piano keys - Mr B went off his brain. "Who taught you to do za short-field landing like that? Ahhh, I suppose my Instructor did", I replied. "Too much power, too much power", Mr B ranted.
As we taxied in I though to myself, "You can stick your @#$%ing pilot's licence".
In the de-brief, Mr B got his second wind.
"This student cannot do za short-field landing. He uses too much power! Too much power! Before ve left he verked out that he needed za 750 ft (or something like that) for take-off and landing - not za 50 ft"!
Instructor: "Well Mr B, I may have over emphasised the use of power in the short-field landing. I'll have him sorted out for next time".
Mr B: "No, I vill give him da licence. The rest of his flying is very good - but he cannot do da short-field landing! You must go up with him straight'way and do da hour on da short-field landing - and den I vill give him da licence"!
You'd be proud of me Mr B - I can still do da short-field landings!
Dr
A mate of mine drew JB for a UPPL test. Passed first go - so I don't where the bad reputation came from!
Moral of the story - just fly the aeroplane. You might be surprised how it all works out in the end.
As I went to pre-flight the aeroplane my Instructor said to me, "Remember to use plenty of power to control your descent on the short field landing. Mr B likes to see plenty of power".
So off we went!
As I climbed away from my forced landing Mr B said, "Ahhh, I do not know if we are alive or dead"!
For the short-field landing I hung that little C150 on the prop from about a mile out to touch-down and pulled up just off the piano keys - Mr B went off his brain. "Who taught you to do za short-field landing like that? Ahhh, I suppose my Instructor did", I replied. "Too much power, too much power", Mr B ranted.
As we taxied in I though to myself, "You can stick your @#$%ing pilot's licence".
In the de-brief, Mr B got his second wind.
"This student cannot do za short-field landing. He uses too much power! Too much power! Before ve left he verked out that he needed za 750 ft (or something like that) for take-off and landing - not za 50 ft"!
Instructor: "Well Mr B, I may have over emphasised the use of power in the short-field landing. I'll have him sorted out for next time".
Mr B: "No, I vill give him da licence. The rest of his flying is very good - but he cannot do da short-field landing! You must go up with him straight'way and do da hour on da short-field landing - and den I vill give him da licence"!
You'd be proud of me Mr B - I can still do da short-field landings!
Dr
A mate of mine drew JB for a UPPL test. Passed first go - so I don't where the bad reputation came from!
Moral of the story - just fly the aeroplane. You might be surprised how it all works out in the end.
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 13th Aug 2007 at 12:59.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
but he cannot do da short-field landing!
That one at Ambo was pretty damn short in the Bonanza. I think we had to throttle up a bit to get to the other end.....uphill a bit
J
That one at Ambo was pretty damn short in the Bonanza. I think we had to throttle up a bit to get to the other end.....uphill a bit
J
Join Date: May 2005
Location: gutter
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Enough of the patronising wibble about being properly prepared for a flight test...(being suitably prepared goes without saying)...this thread came about because of the lack of consistent objectivity being shown by a testing officer...this lack of judgement arises directly from a lack of "industry experience"....come on ASL spend some of the vast revenue you gather on some quality experienced examiners.......it's been bad enough suffering your woeful exams to see the flight testing go the same way!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sexy Time Correct
Agree with sexytime, both about patronising wibble- any more cliches for us TOD?- and ASL`s naked revenue reaping. Personally have had no beef with the testing officers but as an organisation ASL leaves plenty to be desired.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: new zealand
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After reading this I did a little more asking about- and found a couple of other interesting reports- the best suggestion I heard was that there should be a better feedback/critique process. Other flight testing organisations are required to provide a form and pre paid envelope etc (i.e. are relatively active in seeking feedback) yet ASL do not do this as far as I know.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Godzone
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ooooh, ooooh, oooooh!!! I can add to this on SOOOO many levels!!
I sat my CPL flight test with
having no idea who he was... until after my flight test when the instructors poked and teased and cajoled me about it! All I can say is i am sure as **** happy i DIDN'T know his rep before we got in the plane, or it would have been all over before it began... 
(and for the record, he YELLED at me in the cockpit 
)
Then, i sat my C-Cat with Graham Leach - oh my oh my, what a fantastic man! I had heard that a good pass with Mr Leach MEANS a good pass - and that if you don't cut the mustard, you don't pass. What more could a genuine pilot want in a testing officer?
I sat my CPL flight test with
Not "no-pass" Parker by any chance?
All I can say is i am sure as **** happy i DIDN'T know his rep before we got in the plane, or it would have been all over before it began... (and for the record, he YELLED at me in the cockpit )Then, i sat my C-Cat with Graham Leach - oh my oh my, what a fantastic man! I had heard that a good pass with Mr Leach MEANS a good pass - and that if you don't cut the mustard, you don't pass. What more could a genuine pilot want in a testing officer?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: H Division
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Techniques for passing a flight test with P. Diddy....
1) Stack of flying mags and FHM/Ralph type mags with hot ladies on the cover
2) Talk about how awesome DB draught is
3) General discussion of farms/farming/horses. He'll pull the photos out if you're a GC.
Sweet as you passed!!!
1) Stack of flying mags and FHM/Ralph type mags with hot ladies on the cover
2) Talk about how awesome DB draught is
3) General discussion of farms/farming/horses. He'll pull the photos out if you're a GC.
Sweet as you passed!!!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saturn
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been told in the last two days of another ASL favorite creeping back to the front, mainly regarding use of the GAP instructors guide. WB wanted a B cat's forced landing to be 'as the gap manual says' but in the past has accused briefings of being 'too gap manual'...
..."****, where did the goal posts go? oh they have shifted again!"...
And DW is quite bad for this also. Who here honestly agrees that during an advanced stall, that power should be increased as airspeed decreases in order to maintain the entry RPM... say 1500? Even the gap manual says it should be allowed to decrease!! I think the AFS boys have run into this more than once. Wazza must be having kittens.
..."****, where did the goal posts go? oh they have shifted again!"...
And DW is quite bad for this also. Who here honestly agrees that during an advanced stall, that power should be increased as airspeed decreases in order to maintain the entry RPM... say 1500? Even the gap manual says it should be allowed to decrease!! I think the AFS boys have run into this more than once. Wazza must be having kittens.