APEC AELW R902 - Insanity or are we just plain scared?
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Bell Flyer
Mate thats the best piece on PPRuNE I have seen in ages, trouble is its not reaching the main stream. I will try sending this to somone with influence but you nee to find a receptive market for that coment
SQ
Mate thats the best piece on PPRuNE I have seen in ages, trouble is its not reaching the main stream. I will try sending this to somone with influence but you nee to find a receptive market for that coment
SQ
Here's a suggestion for the asinine authors of this AIP SUP. As they know, holders of ASIC cards go through very thourough security checks. Why not make pilots with ASICs, phone in their request, read out their details, file a flight plan and then allow the flight to proceed. Grounding the GA fleet by that Kremlin era AIP SUP, would be like restricting the movements of every soldier in the army for the loss of those 6 rocket launchers.
ADF staff, believe me, what you are enforcing is dumb and an over-reaction. I am a tax paying civilian with an aircraft and I am telling you that for a fact. Just like building airport fences at Thargomindah, Oodnadatta, Narrabri and Birdsville. It might make you feel good but it is dumb and costly.
ADF staff, believe me, what you are enforcing is dumb and an over-reaction. I am a tax paying civilian with an aircraft and I am telling you that for a fact. Just like building airport fences at Thargomindah, Oodnadatta, Narrabri and Birdsville. It might make you feel good but it is dumb and costly.
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Sticker Slogans
Crosshair, I have a few slogans for your stickers - maybe we can run a contest for the wittiest ones.
PROTECT OUR AVIATION FREEDOM - CANCEL APEC
BUSH GO HOME - AND TAKE HOWARD WITH YOU
MARK VAILLE, DO SOMETHING USEFUL FOR AVIATION
Squawk6969, thanks for the vote. We'll take this discussion as far as we can, try to influence people along for the intellectual ride, but at the end nothing will be achieved, I'm afraid. This is because most politicians live by this maxim, "These are my principles - if you don't like them, I have others". I think that's from Groucho Marx.
So, if you presented Mark and his top public servants with say, 100 truly useful aviation reforms and suggestions, he will put at the top of them, "Get re-elected first, at any cost". Or for a senior public servant, "Let's not rock the boat - let's see how far we can keep this multi hundred thousand dollar salary going". With the exception of maybe Petrogeorgiou (sp?), Baird, Ted Max, Bob Brown and a few others, there are no truly principled people around in politics.
I see right through Ruddock wearing his Amnesty badge, as he squirmed and lied and told Jennifer Brocky how habeas corpus ought not to apply to Hicks. I also see right through Mark when he addressed the AWB enquiry and used the Sargeant Schulz line, "I know nothing...". No substance to these guys, I am afraid, hence no progress expected.
So, let's review the logic so far by the guys who wrote the AIP. We can't catch Osama and the guys who planned those Boeing 767's etc flying into the WTC.... I know! Let's jump on the little guys flying Cessna's 152's and R22's flying around Sydney. Yeah, we'll get those expensive Seasprites flying, and chase 'em out of R902.
PROTECT OUR AVIATION FREEDOM - CANCEL APEC
BUSH GO HOME - AND TAKE HOWARD WITH YOU
MARK VAILLE, DO SOMETHING USEFUL FOR AVIATION
Squawk6969, thanks for the vote. We'll take this discussion as far as we can, try to influence people along for the intellectual ride, but at the end nothing will be achieved, I'm afraid. This is because most politicians live by this maxim, "These are my principles - if you don't like them, I have others". I think that's from Groucho Marx.
So, if you presented Mark and his top public servants with say, 100 truly useful aviation reforms and suggestions, he will put at the top of them, "Get re-elected first, at any cost". Or for a senior public servant, "Let's not rock the boat - let's see how far we can keep this multi hundred thousand dollar salary going". With the exception of maybe Petrogeorgiou (sp?), Baird, Ted Max, Bob Brown and a few others, there are no truly principled people around in politics.
I see right through Ruddock wearing his Amnesty badge, as he squirmed and lied and told Jennifer Brocky how habeas corpus ought not to apply to Hicks. I also see right through Mark when he addressed the AWB enquiry and used the Sargeant Schulz line, "I know nothing...". No substance to these guys, I am afraid, hence no progress expected.
So, let's review the logic so far by the guys who wrote the AIP. We can't catch Osama and the guys who planned those Boeing 767's etc flying into the WTC.... I know! Let's jump on the little guys flying Cessna's 152's and R22's flying around Sydney. Yeah, we'll get those expensive Seasprites flying, and chase 'em out of R902.
Last edited by Bell_Flyer; 18th Jun 2007 at 22:38.
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Ingrate
I mean really, there is a greater chance of one of our F18 pilots being a bit trigger happy or extremist than most of the GA flyers......
Last edited by señor_jones; 24th Jun 2007 at 01:21.
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Bump.
I wouldn't want to miss out on your pearls of wisdom by letting this thread slide to page 2.
Squawk6969 - Please fill us in on how you formed your, one might loosely term, "opinion".
I wouldn't want to miss out on your pearls of wisdom by letting this thread slide to page 2.
Squawk6969 - Please fill us in on how you formed your, one might loosely term, "opinion".
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Dont worry about our F18 pilots. They couldn't hit a barn yard with a banjo. Those Hornet guys get way to much of our funding. I would prefer to see that money used for something usefull than be given to a bunch of trigger happy adrenalin junkies.
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I know this post makes me guilty of feeding the monkeys, but there's some gross misconceptions and ignorance about the ADF here which I just can't let go unanswered. This is not about my opinion on the APEC conference. Frankly I couldn't give a fig.
I can assure you that this type of flying is in no way "fun" to any self respecting Hornet driver. I'm sure they could find much more "fun" and productive things to do with the paltry amount of hours allocated to them rather than spend hours of drilling around in circles.
And how much thought went into this comment? How easy do you think it is to get anywhere near a B-52 in order to hijack it? We're not talking about hijacking a civil airliner. In any case, it's a sitting-duck target capable of being spotted literally thousands of miles away!
I don't think you've ever even spoken to an ADF pilot far less have any idea of the rules of engagement involved here, which I can assure you would be very strict.
You miss the point. It doesn't matter whether the individual ADF member agrees with it or not, it's their job is to comply with the directives issues by the government of the day. And no, I'm pretty sure it doesn't make them "feel good".
Of course you'd know, wouldn't you?
As opposed to....? Do you think a defence force is cheap to run?
I
Nice looking chip on your shoulder there!
Our tax payer funded F-18 pilots can really have some fun with a larger area to patrol at the expense of our GA pilots.
A hijacked B-52 can drop from 40,000 feet.
there is a greater chance of one of our F18 pilots being a bit trigger happy or extremist than most of the GA flyers
ADF staff, believe me, what you are enforcing is dumb and an over-reaction. I am a tax paying civilian with an aircraft and I am telling you that for a fact. Just like building airport fences at Thargomindah, Oodnadatta, Narrabri and Birdsville. It might make you feel good but it is dumb and costly.
Don't worry about our F18 pilots. They couldn't hit a barn yard with a banjo.
Those Hornet guys get way to much of our funding.
I
would prefer to see that money used for something useful than be given to a bunch of trigger happy adrenalin junkies.
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señor_jones
Seems you have taken offence in some way at my formed opinion on how we end up with silly restrictions like this.
My point is "What the **** have we got to have this exclusion zone for anyway". Its ludicrous.
The risk of a trigger happy crazy nut case F18 pilot would have to be so minimal its unthinkable, hence the very reason you have taken offence. You may well be one (F18 pilot, not a nutter). And unlike some others posting here I actually believe you guys and the F111 boys are severly underfunded for the great responsibility you all cary. Just read my post with "I am an ADF supporter" frame of mind next time.
So in going further, the GA guys have got what in the way of destructive weapons that they can either lift, or deploy? Nothing, and bugger all chance of hitting any target if they did.
So when you look at it that way.....there is a bigger chance of an F18 guy being a threat than any of the GA folk ever could be. The FACT that I think and you think that its that laughable, suggests to me that its a big waste.
Care to offer your valued opinion from the ADF point of view. I am not being cycnical, I mean it. Yes my earlier post may have been a touch tongue in cheek, but in all seriousness, I was not kidding totally.
Cheers
SQ
Seems you have taken offence in some way at my formed opinion on how we end up with silly restrictions like this.
My point is "What the **** have we got to have this exclusion zone for anyway". Its ludicrous.
The risk of a trigger happy crazy nut case F18 pilot would have to be so minimal its unthinkable, hence the very reason you have taken offence. You may well be one (F18 pilot, not a nutter). And unlike some others posting here I actually believe you guys and the F111 boys are severly underfunded for the great responsibility you all cary. Just read my post with "I am an ADF supporter" frame of mind next time.
So in going further, the GA guys have got what in the way of destructive weapons that they can either lift, or deploy? Nothing, and bugger all chance of hitting any target if they did.
So when you look at it that way.....there is a bigger chance of an F18 guy being a threat than any of the GA folk ever could be. The FACT that I think and you think that its that laughable, suggests to me that its a big waste.
Care to offer your valued opinion from the ADF point of view. I am not being cycnical, I mean it. Yes my earlier post may have been a touch tongue in cheek, but in all seriousness, I was not kidding totally.
Cheers
SQ
Last edited by squawk6969; 27th Jun 2007 at 08:33.
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That chip my friend has several gold stripes and several tickets of which you are more than welcome to purchase. I just like bringing out you lot from out of the woodwork. Well done for amusing me this arvo
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They couldn't hit a barn yard with a banjo
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Lets do the Time Warp now !
I received a copy of the AIP (SUP) H23/07 yesterday 27Jun07, with a covering letter from DoTaRs.
I liked the bit where they exhort me to pre-register by 22Jun07 for approval to fly. (so that the Police (AFP ?) will let me do some circuits at Bankstown).
I liked the bit where they exhort me to pre-register by 22Jun07 for approval to fly. (so that the Police (AFP ?) will let me do some circuits at Bankstown).
Last edited by Biggles_in_Oz; 28th Jun 2007 at 05:10.
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Oh Captain, my captain
Hi Captain Sand Dune, thanks for your post. Why don’t you cut out your Dixie Chicks routine because you do give a “fig” about something. That’s why you’ve written. And unless you’re one of those who believe that the world is only 10,000 years old, dinosaurs were on board the Ark, then keep your monkey comments to yourself. You too descended from an ape.
You need to read this link regarding the gross incompetence that permeates the Australian Defence Organisation:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...019286731.html
Let me quote just one passage from ADF’s very own Board of Inquiry. “But the board of inquiry's report said the crash was not just an isolated event caused by the actions of a few maintenance personnel. Rather, it was "the result of a complex interaction of individual and systemic failings" across the entire defence force and parts of the Australian Defence Organisation.
Senior commanders and managers "did not fully understand their responsibilities for airworthiness", the report found, and the then head of naval aviation, Commodore Geoff Ledger, had only a "rudimentary" concept of his responsibility in this area.” Pretty damning, huh?
So let’s have a look at your comments to this thread that relate to my posts.
Well, don’t do it! Stand on a principle. There is a thread somewhere about mindless twats confiscating toothpaste, perfume etc at airport security. If you are indeed representing “self respecting Hornet drivers”, as you suggest, then stand on a principle – don’t do it. If more people did this, our politicians will get the message. Otherwise, what’s the difference between your views and a Blackwater mercenary? Pl tell me.
Look up the phrase “tongue-in cheek”. But to dignify your comment, why just a restriction for 45 miles and up to 28,000 feet? The point is, a plane can fly 50 feet along Victor One or R405, etc undetectable to radar, and do its horrible mission just as well as the tongue-in-cheek hijacked B-52 at 40,000 feet. Get it? The entire Harbour Bridge was shut down for just one man – Dick Cheney. Get it? There are airport fences in the outback that keeps out rabbits, camels and feral goats. Get it?
Oh I see your point now, Captain. Silly me. I forgot. The Nuremburg Defense, “I was just following orders”. That’s why we have Auswitz, My Lai, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, etc. Oh and pl don’t preach about your “rules of engagement”. Keep your friendly fire in Iraq. We don’t want it here in Sydney. Yeah, I was a conscript in the Armed Forces. My government demonized the North Vietnamese. If we don’t fight them in Vietnam, we’d be fighting them in (New York, London, Thailand, Malaysia, Darwin, Sydney) – take your pick. I’ve heard it all before. So the allies went in and slaughtered 3m of these people. We mistook a civil war for the cold war. These days, my children and their school plan vacations in Vietnam, Bush visits Hanoi, the Vietnamese President visits the White House and I employ Vietnamese researchers and middle management workers. What happened to the falling domino theory? Oh, you mean McMahon was wrong? They are not the boogie men anymore in 2007? Hmmm maybe McMahon and his advisors in the 60’s and 70’s were stupid? Hmmm maybe you are enforcing something dumb in 2007 as well? Maybe it is time you took a stand? One more thing, pl let me know when the Seasprites cost over-runs are over and who is held accountable.
Captain Sand Dune, I am appealing to educated ADF guys like those who’ve gone to Duntroon to adopt a higher moral ground. Don’t write stupid papers like that AIP SUPP and don’t enforce stupid orders. Speak truth to power. Maybe you don’t give a fig about APEC air restrictions because you don’t give a hoot about GA. But I do. It’s all about freedom – something the ADF is supposed to preserve for its citizenry. I also give a hoot about ADF having incompetent people in charge because businesses built from bricks and dollars pay taxes that go into their salaries, their lost rocket launchers, their shipping back wrong bodies, the missing split pins, secret CD-ROMs being left in Qantas Clubs’ computers, billions of dollars in unaccounted assets, etc.
So, like I said, cut out your Dixie Chicks routine and maybe start listening to Green Day’s hit. Seriously, there is an important message there for you. The tune’s not bad either. This is a thread about dumb ass AIP SUPP suppressing our aviation freedom, not about bashing the ADF – they are doing that to themselves well enough without our help. Have a happy day and help preserve our freedoms like you’re supposed to do.
You need to read this link regarding the gross incompetence that permeates the Australian Defence Organisation:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...019286731.html
Let me quote just one passage from ADF’s very own Board of Inquiry. “But the board of inquiry's report said the crash was not just an isolated event caused by the actions of a few maintenance personnel. Rather, it was "the result of a complex interaction of individual and systemic failings" across the entire defence force and parts of the Australian Defence Organisation.
Senior commanders and managers "did not fully understand their responsibilities for airworthiness", the report found, and the then head of naval aviation, Commodore Geoff Ledger, had only a "rudimentary" concept of his responsibility in this area.” Pretty damning, huh?
So let’s have a look at your comments to this thread that relate to my posts.
“I can assure you that this type of flying is in no way "fun" to any self respecting Hornet driver. I'm sure they could find much more "fun" and productive things to do with the paltry amount of hours allocated to them rather than spend hours of drilling around in circles.”
“And how much thought went into this comment? How easy do you think it is to get anywhere near a B-52 in order to hijack it? We're not talking about hijacking a civil airliner. In any case, it's a sitting-duck target capable of being spotted literally thousands of miles away!”
“You miss the point. It doesn't matter whether the individual ADF member agrees with it or not, it's their job is to comply with the directives issues by the government of the day. And no, I'm pretty sure it doesn't make them "feel good".”
Captain Sand Dune, I am appealing to educated ADF guys like those who’ve gone to Duntroon to adopt a higher moral ground. Don’t write stupid papers like that AIP SUPP and don’t enforce stupid orders. Speak truth to power. Maybe you don’t give a fig about APEC air restrictions because you don’t give a hoot about GA. But I do. It’s all about freedom – something the ADF is supposed to preserve for its citizenry. I also give a hoot about ADF having incompetent people in charge because businesses built from bricks and dollars pay taxes that go into their salaries, their lost rocket launchers, their shipping back wrong bodies, the missing split pins, secret CD-ROMs being left in Qantas Clubs’ computers, billions of dollars in unaccounted assets, etc.
So, like I said, cut out your Dixie Chicks routine and maybe start listening to Green Day’s hit. Seriously, there is an important message there for you. The tune’s not bad either. This is a thread about dumb ass AIP SUPP suppressing our aviation freedom, not about bashing the ADF – they are doing that to themselves well enough without our help. Have a happy day and help preserve our freedoms like you’re supposed to do.
Time Extension for APEC registration
This posted on "another forum":
http://forum.aopa.com.au/index.php?s...t=0&#entry3662
Still time to get your entries in
http://forum.aopa.com.au/index.php?s...t=0&#entry3662
Still time to get your entries in
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Bell Flyer,
hahahaha. the septics probably wrote it and just said "here circulate this"
For sh1ts and giggles, why not just fill out a heap of the applicatons and submit them. I guess that could backfire though and the blue orchids would say they have reached the limit and it would screw it for legitimate flights.
Glad I don't have to worry about this BS in the west.
Does anyone on the forum know how long it took for the Americans to approve this?
For sh1ts and giggles, why not just fill out a heap of the applicatons and submit them. I guess that could backfire though and the blue orchids would say they have reached the limit and it would screw it for legitimate flights.
Glad I don't have to worry about this BS in the west.
Last edited by Islander Jock; 6th Jul 2007 at 02:52.
we were actually having an argument the other day over which was the most idiotic post on pprune. Nice job bell flyer. Compare the actions of a RAAF pilot enforcing a GA week long restricted area to those who perpetrated Auschwitz.
Seriously I have no idea why I even come here anymore.
Seriously I have no idea why I even come here anymore.