Any Cessna 210 in YSBK
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Wheeler is right about why there are few (no?) big singles around for pvt or any sort of hire anymore.
I'm a C210 owner (sorry - not near Sydney). My IFR Charter category 100 hr'ly last month cost me $3750.00 inc GST plus ferrying time. There were only 2 snags found - broken exhaust bracket ($75) and a leaking static system ($400 - labour to find where the leak was).
Each time I've hired my plane to someone else (pvt or professional), it doesn't come back the same. Broken plastic trim in baggage compartment, lost fuel drain, broken window (yes - broken window).
They push their bags over the back seat into the baggage compartment (instead of using the bag comptmnt door) and scrape the wool off the sheepskin seat covers. Fly from Longreach to Rockhampton with a broken HF antenna flapping behind the plane, scratching the paint to billy-o.
I'm also scared sh1tless that the engine will get shock cooled on descent - there goes another $bigwad.
But still only want to pay less than $300 per hour.
I don't want to sound like I'm whingeing, but thems the facts - its just not worth it financially. If every pilot would treat every plane they flew like it was their own, it might be a different story.
Anyway - in the meantime if you want to hire a C210 in central Qld, pm me. (Am I nuts or what?)
I'm a C210 owner (sorry - not near Sydney). My IFR Charter category 100 hr'ly last month cost me $3750.00 inc GST plus ferrying time. There were only 2 snags found - broken exhaust bracket ($75) and a leaking static system ($400 - labour to find where the leak was).
Each time I've hired my plane to someone else (pvt or professional), it doesn't come back the same. Broken plastic trim in baggage compartment, lost fuel drain, broken window (yes - broken window).
They push their bags over the back seat into the baggage compartment (instead of using the bag comptmnt door) and scrape the wool off the sheepskin seat covers. Fly from Longreach to Rockhampton with a broken HF antenna flapping behind the plane, scratching the paint to billy-o.
I'm also scared sh1tless that the engine will get shock cooled on descent - there goes another $bigwad.
But still only want to pay less than $300 per hour.
I don't want to sound like I'm whingeing, but thems the facts - its just not worth it financially. If every pilot would treat every plane they flew like it was their own, it might be a different story.
Anyway - in the meantime if you want to hire a C210 in central Qld, pm me. (Am I nuts or what?)
Last edited by kingtoad; 8th Jan 2007 at 21:25.
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Clarification
Guys,
Please hear me out. I am not trying to build my hour on the C210. I just like to fly it as I have done in the past. I am not a newbie ( check my profile ) and I am used to flying turbo charged engines as I use to fly a chieftain in my past life.
I am just looking for one that I can hire for a few days so I can take my family (and friends) around Sydney when I'm there. I am also thinking of buying one but that's down the track.
If nothing is available in BK on the Cessna 200 series then I'll settle for a Baron or a Duchess.
Thanks everyone.
D6
Please hear me out. I am not trying to build my hour on the C210. I just like to fly it as I have done in the past. I am not a newbie ( check my profile ) and I am used to flying turbo charged engines as I use to fly a chieftain in my past life.
I am just looking for one that I can hire for a few days so I can take my family (and friends) around Sydney when I'm there. I am also thinking of buying one but that's down the track.
If nothing is available in BK on the Cessna 200 series then I'll settle for a Baron or a Duchess.
Thanks everyone.
D6
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G'Day All,
Have you ever wondered why there is no longer a C210 available from YSBK? It is because most pilots who don't own an aircraft, don't know how to look after them. They are not some hire car which you can trash
As far as I know, every C210 that has been privately hired from YSBK, has come back broken. That is why I don't let my C210 out of my sight. For those knockers out there, just because you spent your rich daddy’s money on your CPL, doesn't give you the right to trash aircraft. Maybe if you earnt some respect, people might be willing to hire you something a bit faster than a Warrior.
For those inspiring CPL pilots out there, who would like to learn a bit about respect for the aircraft you fly, you are welcome to fly my 210 with me in the RHS, for those who prefer to trash their planes, don’t bother calling me. Check out my details on the AFAP website under jump pilots required. It may only be a C210A model with 4 seats and an economical IO470, but its the fastest climbing 210 around and not much slower than the later models. You still have the same engine and speed management as later models and after all, it still goes in your logbook as a C210. I offer a 10 hour block for only $2000 wet and have just got back from a trip from YPKU with 3 pilots building 10 hours command each. They all learnt what real flying is all about, travelling great distances, making their own command decisions and coming back in one piece. I’m sure if you ask around who they are, they will fill you in on what type of a guy I am.
More than 75% of pilots who fly my 210, have ended up with some sort of flying job, being skydiving or otherwise. Not a bad prospect if you are after the all important first flying job.
If you call it charter where I give up my own time to help pilots appreciate the respect for the machines they fly, experience the pleasure in going to places they have never been before for no real reason other than just because as pilots we can, then call it charter or even the BERNIE HIRE if you will.
Blue Skies
Bernie
Have you ever wondered why there is no longer a C210 available from YSBK? It is because most pilots who don't own an aircraft, don't know how to look after them. They are not some hire car which you can trash
As far as I know, every C210 that has been privately hired from YSBK, has come back broken. That is why I don't let my C210 out of my sight. For those knockers out there, just because you spent your rich daddy’s money on your CPL, doesn't give you the right to trash aircraft. Maybe if you earnt some respect, people might be willing to hire you something a bit faster than a Warrior.For those inspiring CPL pilots out there, who would like to learn a bit about respect for the aircraft you fly, you are welcome to fly my 210 with me in the RHS, for those who prefer to trash their planes, don’t bother calling me. Check out my details on the AFAP website under jump pilots required. It may only be a C210A model with 4 seats and an economical IO470, but its the fastest climbing 210 around and not much slower than the later models. You still have the same engine and speed management as later models and after all, it still goes in your logbook as a C210. I offer a 10 hour block for only $2000 wet and have just got back from a trip from YPKU with 3 pilots building 10 hours command each. They all learnt what real flying is all about, travelling great distances, making their own command decisions and coming back in one piece. I’m sure if you ask around who they are, they will fill you in on what type of a guy I am.
More than 75% of pilots who fly my 210, have ended up with some sort of flying job, being skydiving or otherwise. Not a bad prospect if you are after the all important first flying job.
If you call it charter where I give up my own time to help pilots appreciate the respect for the machines they fly, experience the pleasure in going to places they have never been before for no real reason other than just because as pilots we can, then call it charter or even the BERNIE HIRE if you will.
Blue Skies
Bernie
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I know all to well about people trashing the BK C210s. In the late 90's several 210s were available from Chieftain/Illawarra. VH-BEC and VH-M?? both ex Arhnem Air Aircraft. I can't remember the second aircraft call sign.
Anyway I went to Illawarra to get a C210 check out and a few hours prior to going on the big trek NW as a VFR CPL.
I did the first check and no worries, then went to hire BEC again a few weeks later, but someone had dropped it in on landing and busted the nose gear/engine/prop. It didn't fly again for several years that I know of, forlornly sitting over on Tower Rd side of the field.
THEN I went to hire the other C210 that replaced BEC, M??. It had met a similar fate a few months after BEC!!
I had to find a 6 seat single and quick. (No twin rating at that stage)
I eventually settled for a A-36, for a flight to Nowra Naval Museum.
Six pax could take no bags, or lunch (they offered to bring lunch for all including me in an esky) and I had to carry ballast fuel to stay in CG.
In a 210, six pax, bags, esky and full fuel no probs!
Some people have no respect for an aircraft. Bernie I feel your pain.
Z.
Anyway I went to Illawarra to get a C210 check out and a few hours prior to going on the big trek NW as a VFR CPL.
I did the first check and no worries, then went to hire BEC again a few weeks later, but someone had dropped it in on landing and busted the nose gear/engine/prop. It didn't fly again for several years that I know of, forlornly sitting over on Tower Rd side of the field.
THEN I went to hire the other C210 that replaced BEC, M??. It had met a similar fate a few months after BEC!!
I had to find a 6 seat single and quick. (No twin rating at that stage)
I eventually settled for a A-36, for a flight to Nowra Naval Museum.
Six pax could take no bags, or lunch (they offered to bring lunch for all including me in an esky) and I had to carry ballast fuel to stay in CG.
In a 210, six pax, bags, esky and full fuel no probs!
Some people have no respect for an aircraft. Bernie I feel your pain.
Z.
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Bernie has a point here guys and gals, when you look at if from the owners point of view you can understand the reasons why they are reluctant to cross hire an aircraft to a fresh CPL with low hours and whose training has primarily been on warriors or 172's. Hard landings, reckless engine handling and numerous other events have scared a lot of 210 owners in the past which is why there ain't too many around these days for hire.
Stepping up to the 210 although not a huge challenge does require a bit more forward planning and engine management skills and simple things like pulling the power of 4-5 inches for a descent in say a Piper or Cessna aircraft no longer apply when flying a 210 or 207, everything must be gradual in order to preserve the engine and if you return the aircraft with cracked valves or damaged piston heads because you couldn't care less or were just ignorant, then its ok for you but for the owner, then there in the you know what.
And this aircraft that Bernie hires out is his living so he cannot afford to have people flying it that have no experience on that particular aircraft type. He is doing newbie pilots a service by letting you get valuable 210 hours before trekking north and this will give you the edge over a lot of others so be grateful that he is willing to hire it out to you in the first place.
I hired his plane out Jan/Feb 2006 before I went north and did not mind having Bernie next to me at all, he is a nice guy, won't rip you off and you will learn a thing or three from him in the process....it was the icing on the cake that got me my first big break and for that reason, I am grateful to the guy.
BOK
Stepping up to the 210 although not a huge challenge does require a bit more forward planning and engine management skills and simple things like pulling the power of 4-5 inches for a descent in say a Piper or Cessna aircraft no longer apply when flying a 210 or 207, everything must be gradual in order to preserve the engine and if you return the aircraft with cracked valves or damaged piston heads because you couldn't care less or were just ignorant, then its ok for you but for the owner, then there in the you know what.
And this aircraft that Bernie hires out is his living so he cannot afford to have people flying it that have no experience on that particular aircraft type. He is doing newbie pilots a service by letting you get valuable 210 hours before trekking north and this will give you the edge over a lot of others so be grateful that he is willing to hire it out to you in the first place.
I hired his plane out Jan/Feb 2006 before I went north and did not mind having Bernie next to me at all, he is a nice guy, won't rip you off and you will learn a thing or three from him in the process....it was the icing on the cake that got me my first big break and for that reason, I am grateful to the guy.
BOK
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Dr Oakenfold,
Don't get my meaning wrong, I loved flying the A36, just that it could not carry the load I required on the day. Compared to the particular C210 I had flown previously. We turned up to fly the 210, only to find out at the last minute it had been trashed! No disrespect to Bonza drivers/owners intended, as the A36 felt and handled beautifully!
Z.
Thanks Bushy, the A36 C of G rear limit was my problem, hence rearranging heavy pax fwd and not able to take any bags etc. We were at max takeoff weight and I had to arrange it so as C of G moved aft when fuel burned off we ware ALWAYS in limits until landing.
Don't get my meaning wrong, I loved flying the A36, just that it could not carry the load I required on the day. Compared to the particular C210 I had flown previously. We turned up to fly the 210, only to find out at the last minute it had been trashed! No disrespect to Bonza drivers/owners intended, as the A36 felt and handled beautifully!
Z.
Thanks Bushy, the A36 C of G rear limit was my problem, hence rearranging heavy pax fwd and not able to take any bags etc. We were at max takeoff weight and I had to arrange it so as C of G moved aft when fuel burned off we ware ALWAYS in limits until landing.
Last edited by Zhaadum; 14th Jan 2007 at 01:12. Reason: Clarification
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A36 W & B calculator.
Ok, try this calculator http://www.alman-tmb.org/N567EB-weight.html
Load as follows;
FRONT ROW 2 adult pax at 200lbs ea = 400lbs
MID ROW club seats 2 young adults at 152lbs ea = 354lbs,
REAR ROW 2 youths at 125lbs = 250lbs.
FUEL 40usg fuel and you will be at MTOW 3600lbs.
Front seat arm almost all the way aft (big guys have long legs).
Mid row seat arm mid range,
Back seats fixed.
THEN same pax load but landing fuel anywhere less than 20 usg the aircraft is out of rear CG.
These are not the exact actual weights we had as I can't remember but it was the same situation.
Anyway, this thread was about C-210's. I am sorry but I don't know of any in BK.
Cheers,
Z.
Load as follows;
FRONT ROW 2 adult pax at 200lbs ea = 400lbs
MID ROW club seats 2 young adults at 152lbs ea = 354lbs,
REAR ROW 2 youths at 125lbs = 250lbs.
FUEL 40usg fuel and you will be at MTOW 3600lbs.
Front seat arm almost all the way aft (big guys have long legs).
Mid row seat arm mid range,
Back seats fixed.
THEN same pax load but landing fuel anywhere less than 20 usg the aircraft is out of rear CG.
These are not the exact actual weights we had as I can't remember but it was the same situation.
Anyway, this thread was about C-210's. I am sorry but I don't know of any in BK.
Cheers,
Z.
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Zhaadum
I remember them well. I managed to take BEC to Mudgee with a couple of mates, then the week after it was pranged by someone landing it on the nosewheel at BK. So the next time we took the other one, MHC, to Coffs. I just could not believe when the following week someone bent that one as well. Makes you wonder who they let loose on some of these aircraft. As you say, one of them sat for ages over by the tower in a very forlorn state.
Nice aircraft but obviously beyond the ability of some!
I remember them well. I managed to take BEC to Mudgee with a couple of mates, then the week after it was pranged by someone landing it on the nosewheel at BK. So the next time we took the other one, MHC, to Coffs. I just could not believe when the following week someone bent that one as well. Makes you wonder who they let loose on some of these aircraft. As you say, one of them sat for ages over by the tower in a very forlorn state.
Nice aircraft but obviously beyond the ability of some!
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when i was in the 210 hour building phase kss was the pranged one.
got a few hours in bec... remember the wires all falling out of the panel on my feet on approach one day, the notorious darrin parkes rescue team seriously give any formula 1 pit crew a run for there money.
good on ya dags.
mdz is the plane you are thinking of.... and the owner dinged mdz pulling out of the hangar cant remember it ever crashingthen again i knew it for only a short time.
oh and to the original poster, if it is a duchess you want go see phil onus at sydney skydivers. baron see schofields or look at av trader there is one there to speak of. and depending on hours and people known some operators will hire a charter plane i.e australia by air due to lack of errr business...
got a few hours in bec... remember the wires all falling out of the panel on my feet on approach one day, the notorious darrin parkes rescue team seriously give any formula 1 pit crew a run for there money.
good on ya dags.
mdz is the plane you are thinking of.... and the owner dinged mdz pulling out of the hangar cant remember it ever crashingthen again i knew it for only a short time.
oh and to the original poster, if it is a duchess you want go see phil onus at sydney skydivers. baron see schofields or look at av trader there is one there to speak of. and depending on hours and people known some operators will hire a charter plane i.e australia by air due to lack of errr business...
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oh and to the original poster, if it is a duchess you want go see phil onus at sydney skydivers. baron see schofields or look at av trader there is one there to speak of. and depending on hours and people known some operators will hire a charter plane i.e australia by air due to lack of errr business...
And im sure pat watson will be able to help you out with a Baron, one of his mates owns a nice shiney one
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Yeah I've heard IIF had a prang. Wheels up I think during taxi ? 
ASA does not have a HSI though.
I was looking for a Chieftain to hire and it's difficult too. The 2 old Chiefs I was flying back in 02-03 is not there anymore.
. One of them has gone to Cairns the other one is at PMQ.
So, looks like I will have to hire a PN68. I know IYN is for hire out of Camden.
Do you guys know of any other outfit that rents it out ? Does Aerospace still have their Parte ? what's the condition of that ?
ASA does not have a HSI though.
I was looking for a Chieftain to hire and it's difficult too. The 2 old Chiefs I was flying back in 02-03 is not there anymore.
. One of them has gone to Cairns the other one is at PMQ.So, looks like I will have to hire a PN68. I know IYN is for hire out of Camden.
Do you guys know of any other outfit that rents it out ? Does Aerospace still have their Parte ? what's the condition of that ?
If it's anything like other twins in Bankstown, 3 moon landings, and a shuttle go around in the last 90 days, 
Yeah I've heard IIF had a prang. Wheels up I think during taxi ?
ASA does not have a HSI though.
I was looking for a Chieftain to hire and it's difficult too. The 2 old Chiefs I was flying back in 02-03 is not there anymore. . One of them has gone to Cairns the other one is at PMQ.
So, looks like I will have to hire a PN68. I know IYN is for hire out of Camden.
Do you guys know of any other outfit that rents it out ? Does Aerospace still have their Parte ? what's the condition of that ?
ASA does not have a HSI though.
I was looking for a Chieftain to hire and it's difficult too. The 2 old Chiefs I was flying back in 02-03 is not there anymore.
. One of them has gone to Cairns the other one is at PMQ.So, looks like I will have to hire a PN68. I know IYN is for hire out of Camden.
Do you guys know of any other outfit that rents it out ? Does Aerospace still have their Parte ? what's the condition of that ?
yeh the space still has 2 partes, and a duchess available.
The 'condition' is marginal
I think Z has 19800 hours now.
I've seen IYN out the front of the old Aero Link hangar at BK, I'm assuming it was being used by SAC, you could call them and perhaps they would x-hire it???
IYN is parked outside Gostner Aviation at Camden at the moment. It is listed By Gostner and by Airborne as available for hire.
IYN is parked outside Gostner Aviation at Camden at the moment. It is listed By Gostner and by Airborne as available for hire.
