Any Cessna 210 in YSBK
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Any Cessna 210 in YSBK
Hi all,
Does anyone know of a Cessna 210 in Bankstown that I can hire for a couple of days ?. Tried ringing around but no luck. So, I was wondering if anyone knows who might have one.
Ta
d6
Does anyone know of a Cessna 210 in Bankstown that I can hire for a couple of days ?. Tried ringing around but no luck. So, I was wondering if anyone knows who might have one.
Ta
d6
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This guy has one. Might be worth a shot. Its at wedderburn, not quite bk but might be your only chance in the area (as taken from afap site)
Training available in both C210 and C207.Call Bernie 0425380967 or email [email protected]
Training available in both C210 and C207.Call Bernie 0425380967 or email [email protected]
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This guy has one. Might be worth a shot. Its at wedderburn, not quite bk but might be your only chance in the area (as taken from afap site)
Training available in both C210 and C207.Call Bernie 0425380967 or email [email protected]
Training available in both C210 and C207.Call Bernie 0425380967 or email [email protected]
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Ahh I see, so that's what's known as the bernie hire. This method of aeroplane utilisation is also known in some circles as a 'charter', you, in this case being the hire or reward
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I thought I was the only one
Now that you've said it, I thought he was a bit strange. Apparently, he is a bit reluctant for someone to do circuits on the thing.
hmmmm...........
hmmmm...........
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C210A
Yes, I just found out it is a C210A. With wing struts.
Does anyone know where the C206 or 207 that John Lyons use to own at Chieftain Aviation ? It's been awhile. Last time I've heard he was in AFTS at tower road but now they're all gone after Ron's accident.
Does anyone know where the C206 or 207 that John Lyons use to own at Chieftain Aviation ? It's been awhile. Last time I've heard he was in AFTS at tower road but now they're all gone after Ron's accident.
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I think MDZ has gone up NT somewhere
I too would be interested if anyone has any news of a 210 in BK.
I got an email from John Lyons - re Chieftain's (where the 210 was) interesting read... (text...)
trust you are all enjoying the break and that you have had a great Christmas.
Hopefully the New Year will be kind to us all and the bush fires go out (just where are those water bombing airplanes & helicopters?).
Anyway, the reason for this e-mail ……… news about ‘Chieftain’ …..
For a number of reasons, financial ones, I have decided to discontinue operating Chieftain as a flying school.
Simply put, under present arrangements, it doesn’t make economic sense.
The cost of acquiring my own AOC from CASA was just going to be excessive and not recoverable without significant increases in our rates, which would make us uncompetitive / unaffordable.
It’s a great disappointment, but I simply don’t have pockets that deep, even if CASA seems to think I should.
However, ‘Chieftain’ will continue.
We will provide private hire and conversion training and anything else for which we don’t require an AOC, including theory training.
At this stage we will only have the ‘172’ available, but hopefully others in the future.
For those interested, if you want to fly something bigger and faster and hold the relevant endorsement we can do the conversion training for you.
There are a number of other privately available airplanes at Bankstown.
Also, I may have some other news soon, about ‘formal’ flying training. Call if you think we can help.
Same phone number, which is monitored (diverts to my mobile).
As for other activities, such a movie nights, BBQ’s etc ….. only time will tell, but I’d like to keep something like that going, perhaps a Friday afternoon/evening beer or two.
Anyway, all the best to everyone. Thanks for your support over the years ……. John Lyon, Peter Arnold & Forrest Park
I got an email from John Lyons - re Chieftain's (where the 210 was) interesting read... (text...)
trust you are all enjoying the break and that you have had a great Christmas.
Hopefully the New Year will be kind to us all and the bush fires go out (just where are those water bombing airplanes & helicopters?).
Anyway, the reason for this e-mail ……… news about ‘Chieftain’ …..
For a number of reasons, financial ones, I have decided to discontinue operating Chieftain as a flying school.
Simply put, under present arrangements, it doesn’t make economic sense.
The cost of acquiring my own AOC from CASA was just going to be excessive and not recoverable without significant increases in our rates, which would make us uncompetitive / unaffordable.
It’s a great disappointment, but I simply don’t have pockets that deep, even if CASA seems to think I should.
However, ‘Chieftain’ will continue.
We will provide private hire and conversion training and anything else for which we don’t require an AOC, including theory training.
At this stage we will only have the ‘172’ available, but hopefully others in the future.
For those interested, if you want to fly something bigger and faster and hold the relevant endorsement we can do the conversion training for you.
There are a number of other privately available airplanes at Bankstown.
Also, I may have some other news soon, about ‘formal’ flying training. Call if you think we can help.
Same phone number, which is monitored (diverts to my mobile).
As for other activities, such a movie nights, BBQ’s etc ….. only time will tell, but I’d like to keep something like that going, perhaps a Friday afternoon/evening beer or two.
Anyway, all the best to everyone. Thanks for your support over the years ……. John Lyon, Peter Arnold & Forrest Park
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Not only are there no 210's at YSBK there isn't any six seat/single engine for hire at YSBK!
Bankstown Airport Limited and CASA say the industry is in "better shape" than ever.
I say "bull dust"
The genaeral aviation airport for the biggest city in Australia doesn't have 1 friggin "big" single for hire!!! Bollocks things are in good shape?
Those of you who think that this problem will right itself in time are living with your head in the sand!
Those of you who think that this problem is isolated to YSBK are also living with ya heads in the dirt!
The goverment want this industry dead cause it doesn't make them enough money and all it does is provide bad press when a lightie goes down!
RIP GA in AUS
You know it makes sense.
VB
Bankstown Airport Limited and CASA say the industry is in "better shape" than ever.
I say "bull dust"
The genaeral aviation airport for the biggest city in Australia doesn't have 1 friggin "big" single for hire!!! Bollocks things are in good shape?
Those of you who think that this problem will right itself in time are living with your head in the sand!
Those of you who think that this problem is isolated to YSBK are also living with ya heads in the dirt!
The goverment want this industry dead cause it doesn't make them enough money and all it does is provide bad press when a lightie goes down!
RIP GA in AUS
You know it makes sense.
VB
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You cannot blame CASA for the lack of larger complex singles being available. If you have any idea of the real costs of maintenance and the financial risks on 210's and other larger retractables, you will understand why no-one in their right mind will hire them out for $250 an hour to 'off the street' punters. These aircrraft can break (or crash) too easily! I used to have aircraft like that on line, but got sick of them coming back absolutely filthy after 'a couple of days hire' needing major rectification, - or being dumped in the middle of nowhere with (say) the the plugs fowled because some genius hirer could not work out how to avoid it.
As for Bernie being cautious, he should be - and there really is no need to be abusive about a guy who has the sense to realise there is major financial risk in this activity. As for the aircraft, it is a 210A and one of the most nicely presented A models you will find anywhere. What do you expect from an almost 50 year old aircraft? (BTW, I thought defamation was not allowed on Pprune!!!!)
If the market would pay a reasonable rate, you would find plenty of aircraft available for hire but the economic situation you have at the moment is that you might find an owner desperate for a bit of cost recovery who will subsidise the real cost to the customer - until he or she realises what that is really costing them. Your problem is that there are few 'mug' owners at BK these days. Your best bet is to strike up long term relationship with an owner, with mutual respect and trust on both sides. If you are 'known', you might find some owners a little less cautious but the days of turning up off the street, doing a couple of circuits and then chuffing off into the deep blue yonder are long gone on aircraft like that.
As for Bernie being cautious, he should be - and there really is no need to be abusive about a guy who has the sense to realise there is major financial risk in this activity. As for the aircraft, it is a 210A and one of the most nicely presented A models you will find anywhere. What do you expect from an almost 50 year old aircraft? (BTW, I thought defamation was not allowed on Pprune!!!!)
If the market would pay a reasonable rate, you would find plenty of aircraft available for hire but the economic situation you have at the moment is that you might find an owner desperate for a bit of cost recovery who will subsidise the real cost to the customer - until he or she realises what that is really costing them. Your problem is that there are few 'mug' owners at BK these days. Your best bet is to strike up long term relationship with an owner, with mutual respect and trust on both sides. If you are 'known', you might find some owners a little less cautious but the days of turning up off the street, doing a couple of circuits and then chuffing off into the deep blue yonder are long gone on aircraft like that.
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You are right VB.
When I arrived in Qld's second largest city (outside the SE corner) 20 years ago, I could PVT hire:
PA28 x 2
PA32 x 1
PA30 x 1 (IFR)
M20 x 1 (IFR)
C152 x 1
C172 x 2
C172RG x 1 (IFR)
C182 x 1
C182RG x 1 (IFR)
C210 x 1 (IFR)
C310 x 2 (IFR)
C402 x 1 (IFR)
Baron x 3 (IFR)
today (if I am lucky)
C152 x 1
C172 x 1
C172RG x 1
C210 x 1 (after $1000 check ride and charter rate per hr)
None are IFR
Fortunately I now have the Forked-tailed Dr Killer (comfortably IFR)!
R
When I arrived in Qld's second largest city (outside the SE corner) 20 years ago, I could PVT hire:
PA28 x 2
PA32 x 1
PA30 x 1 (IFR)
M20 x 1 (IFR)
C152 x 1
C172 x 2
C172RG x 1 (IFR)
C182 x 1
C182RG x 1 (IFR)
C210 x 1 (IFR)
C310 x 2 (IFR)
C402 x 1 (IFR)
Baron x 3 (IFR)
today (if I am lucky)
C152 x 1
C172 x 1
C172RG x 1
C210 x 1 (after $1000 check ride and charter rate per hr)
None are IFR
Fortunately I now have the Forked-tailed Dr Killer (comfortably IFR)!
R
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Certainly cash strapped times! But last year I forked out for an ASIC $160 and my medical $130 so I'm down $300. That would be an hour in a 210.
CASA don't set the cost hiring a 210 true. But when the punters are busy forking out hard-earns for expensive and sometimes useless "peripherals" then Joe Bloggs quickly finds himself short in the money department.
If CASA wants someone to regulate in the future then it would be well worth their while in aiding it's "customers" then bending them over giving it to them!
VB
CASA don't set the cost hiring a 210 true. But when the punters are busy forking out hard-earns for expensive and sometimes useless "peripherals" then Joe Bloggs quickly finds himself short in the money department.
If CASA wants someone to regulate in the future then it would be well worth their while in aiding it's "customers" then bending them over giving it to them!
VB
We are getting off topic.
There is at least one C210 at Camden but I think it is privately owned. There are sixes available for hire at Camden but not 210's to my knowledge.
And before someone else says it Camden is being squeezed too, but that's not the topic of this thread.
There is at least one C210 at Camden but I think it is privately owned. There are sixes available for hire at Camden but not 210's to my knowledge.
And before someone else says it Camden is being squeezed too, but that's not the topic of this thread.
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Sixes at Camden? Where? Who?
There is a really nice low time 210M, owned by a small syndicate, who are very proud of it. Cannot see you getting your hands on that one.
As I say, if it was worth their while, plenty of owners wouldn't mind the odd bit of cross-hiring, but who will be first to put up their hand to pay a real commercial rate? ASIC fees, CASA medical processing fee etc etc are absolute peanuts compared to the maintenance, insurance, fuel, engine, prop etc on one of those things.....
If you really want to have a go at someone, maybe lookat Cessna and the maintenance 'industry'. who are the winners as these old 'buckets of shyte' get even older. Take $500 for a mixture cable, $2500 for mag overhaul, $800 for a fuel pump, $600 for a vac pump, $16.000+ for a repaint, $50,000 for an engine. All that stuff has to be regularly replaced or overhauled. Insurance about $8000.depending on the value and what it is used for (- and of course 210's do not have a good cliams record in pirvate hire.) Say $4000 per year for hangarage at BK, fuel 50-60 litres per hour at $1.40? Even one of those dinky little tin hubcaps on a 210 is $125. Oh, and you want a nice IFR Garmin 530 setup and 3 axis autopilot too? ($60K?). Does anyone seriously believe with those kind of costs, that putting a nice 210 on line at around $300 per hour (which would be about $240 by the time GST and the operators commission is taken into account) is viable?
There is a really nice low time 210M, owned by a small syndicate, who are very proud of it. Cannot see you getting your hands on that one.
As I say, if it was worth their while, plenty of owners wouldn't mind the odd bit of cross-hiring, but who will be first to put up their hand to pay a real commercial rate? ASIC fees, CASA medical processing fee etc etc are absolute peanuts compared to the maintenance, insurance, fuel, engine, prop etc on one of those things.....
If you really want to have a go at someone, maybe lookat Cessna and the maintenance 'industry'. who are the winners as these old 'buckets of shyte' get even older. Take $500 for a mixture cable, $2500 for mag overhaul, $800 for a fuel pump, $600 for a vac pump, $16.000+ for a repaint, $50,000 for an engine. All that stuff has to be regularly replaced or overhauled. Insurance about $8000.depending on the value and what it is used for (- and of course 210's do not have a good cliams record in pirvate hire.) Say $4000 per year for hangarage at BK, fuel 50-60 litres per hour at $1.40? Even one of those dinky little tin hubcaps on a 210 is $125. Oh, and you want a nice IFR Garmin 530 setup and 3 axis autopilot too? ($60K?). Does anyone seriously believe with those kind of costs, that putting a nice 210 on line at around $300 per hour (which would be about $240 by the time GST and the operators commission is taken into account) is viable?
Sixes at Camden? Where? Who?
Do you mean six seaters or six cylinders?
Have a chat with Airborne or Curtis - from recollection there is a Cherokee Dakota, a Beech Debonair and several 182's. Not six seaters though.
There ARE six seaters at SYBK - Alpha have a Saratoga and a C206 (for members) and there is a guy who advertises a Lance in AOPA magazine (Ray 9999 0584 min 300 hrs required).
Do you mean six seaters or six cylinders?
Have a chat with Airborne or Curtis - from recollection there is a Cherokee Dakota, a Beech Debonair and several 182's. Not six seaters though.
There ARE six seaters at SYBK - Alpha have a Saratoga and a C206 (for members) and there is a guy who advertises a Lance in AOPA magazine (Ray 9999 0584 min 300 hrs required).
Last edited by bentleg; 7th Jan 2007 at 10:01.
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Yep, some really good new 4 seat 182's around Camden, some even G1000, but I think we are looking for 6 seats here.
Aside from the issue, but what is interesting is that two operators seem to have found new $500,000 182's actually appear to be economic to offer for public hire - so maybe in GA things are not so bad!
Aside from the issue, but what is interesting is that two operators seem to have found new $500,000 182's actually appear to be economic to offer for public hire - so maybe in GA things are not so bad!
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C210 at Camden
We are getting off topic.
There is at least one C210 at Camden but I think it is privately owned. There are sixes available for hire at Camden but not 210's to my knowledge.
And before someone else says it Camden is being squeezed too, but that's not the topic of this thread.
There is at least one C210 at Camden but I think it is privately owned. There are sixes available for hire at Camden but not 210's to my knowledge.
And before someone else says it Camden is being squeezed too, but that's not the topic of this thread.
Hi bentleg, can you please PM me the details of the owner if they are hiring it out.
Thanks
D6
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Not only are there no 210's at YSBK there isn't any six seat/single engine for hire at YSBK!
Bankstown Airport Limited and CASA say the industry is in "better shape" than ever.
I say "bull dust"
The genaeral aviation airport for the biggest city in Australia doesn't have 1 friggin "big" single for hire!!! Bollocks things are in good shape?
Those of you who think that this problem will right itself in time are living with your head in the sand!
Those of you who think that this problem is isolated to YSBK are also living with ya heads in the dirt!
The goverment want this industry dead cause it doesn't make them enough money and all it does is provide bad press when a lightie goes down!
RIP GA in AUS
You know it makes sense.
VB
Bankstown Airport Limited and CASA say the industry is in "better shape" than ever.
I say "bull dust"
The genaeral aviation airport for the biggest city in Australia doesn't have 1 friggin "big" single for hire!!! Bollocks things are in good shape?
Those of you who think that this problem will right itself in time are living with your head in the sand!
Those of you who think that this problem is isolated to YSBK are also living with ya heads in the dirt!
The goverment want this industry dead cause it doesn't make them enough money and all it does is provide bad press when a lightie goes down!
RIP GA in AUS
You know it makes sense.
VB
I've heard the number of duchess available for hire are dwindling too....
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210's
I used to hire 210's from bk. they are all in the territory now. why leave them down there doing a few private hours when they get 80 hours+ a month up here. including john lyons old machine mdz, others - bec, kss, ltt. the list goes on.
bk isnt the stronghold of aviation. try hiring a 206 down there i know there are still 2. go see schofields, pat watson will tell you where 1 of them is cause it is a members one (mick tickner).
apart from that if it is 210 time ur chasing for up north then any 200 series is close enough.
people are scared of private hirers, if you honestly cant find these machines then you may not have been around long enough, try networking a little and you would be surprised how much you find out.
as for bernie and his 210a, it isnt half bad and the guy is a bit paranoid but so was john lyons. most owners are until you can prove that you arent a weekend warrior who is out to cause them more heart ache than the $250 / hr or part thereof you are willing to release for a 250k machine.
bk isnt the stronghold of aviation. try hiring a 206 down there i know there are still 2. go see schofields, pat watson will tell you where 1 of them is cause it is a members one (mick tickner).
apart from that if it is 210 time ur chasing for up north then any 200 series is close enough.
people are scared of private hirers, if you honestly cant find these machines then you may not have been around long enough, try networking a little and you would be surprised how much you find out.
as for bernie and his 210a, it isnt half bad and the guy is a bit paranoid but so was john lyons. most owners are until you can prove that you arent a weekend warrior who is out to cause them more heart ache than the $250 / hr or part thereof you are willing to release for a 250k machine.