Commercial Aviation Pay Rates
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I don’t think the flying schools tell people how it really is. If they did very few people would learn to fly.
You have to look at the big picture. A 21 year old tradesman on 150k a year not only makes 110k more than a GA pilot a year but INVESTS 110k more a year. A am not an accountant but a fool can see that the compound interest over the 20 years it takes the GA pilot to make anywhere near 150k a year is astronomical. A couple of my mates started working trades at the same time I started flying. They were a bit envious at the time but not any more. The houses they bought alone have increased in value by more than I have earned in TOTAL since then. That income is ON TOP of their salaries!
I enjoy my job but I will admit that it was not a very clever career move.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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what 21 year old tradesman is on $75 an hour?
Certainly very well paid pilots in Australian GA. Especially when you compare those rates with captains in the Republic of Kiribati - Central Pacific, who fly the twin engine turbo-prop Harbin Y12 with two crew and 17 passengers, for the princely wages of $100 Australian dollars a week. And in case you think the figures are wrong - I say again...100 bucks a WEEK. Tax is taken out of that.
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I agree with Mr Stanley, go out and get a trade. Maybe on the week-ends do a bit of training and then have the best of both worlds. In the end you have options when/where you go looking for that first job to fall back on. And who knows after you finish your trade you may well decide aviation is not for you.
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The reason GA wages are so poor is because of flying schools which churn out commercial licence holders like a sausage factory. As a result there is a massive oversupply of low hour commercial pilots and the wages reflect that.
If these schools were more honest with prospective commercial students, they would have a huge downturn in CPL training, so as a result they will say anything to get people to part with their money.
A simple case of supply exceeding demand.
I believe all new commercial students should have to read and sign a declaration upon enrollment which states they are aware of the wages and poor employment prospects on completion.
If these schools were more honest with prospective commercial students, they would have a huge downturn in CPL training, so as a result they will say anything to get people to part with their money.
A simple case of supply exceeding demand.
I believe all new commercial students should have to read and sign a declaration upon enrollment which states they are aware of the wages and poor employment prospects on completion.
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Its purely a case of "false advertising" by many flight schools, just to get people in the door.
Spend $50k and be flying a jet in a year earning over $150k/year...sounds too good to be true, wonder why the investment companies are not sending people through as well? Why do property when you can returm 100k/yr just sitting down pressing some buttons and getting paid to travel the world!
Blowing smoke up the poor kids ar$es i say, false hopes....
Spend $50k and be flying a jet in a year earning over $150k/year...sounds too good to be true, wonder why the investment companies are not sending people through as well? Why do property when you can returm 100k/yr just sitting down pressing some buttons and getting paid to travel the world!
Blowing smoke up the poor kids ar$es i say, false hopes....
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All of these comments certainly make me feel really really happy re: my direction and goals in the aviation industry, and back up what I was already thinking and what many a person has said to me, pilot or not.
And why should a flying school advertise the bleak chances one may have, upon spending $50K with them? The student should do some research and find out what the industry is like, there are many, many ill-informed people that have, are currently or are about to start the 18 month hog or however long it is for the fulltime course these days.
Well summed up M.25.
And why should a flying school advertise the bleak chances one may have, upon spending $50K with them? The student should do some research and find out what the industry is like, there are many, many ill-informed people that have, are currently or are about to start the 18 month hog or however long it is for the fulltime course these days.
Well summed up M.25.
Last edited by M14_P; 17th Dec 2006 at 07:29.
Grandpa Aerotart
Turboman why would you take out the highest paying end of the aviation industry and then compare the remainder to the highest paid cook, truck drivers and sparkies in Australia?
In every industry there are a small % who earn many times the average of their profession...the average electrician would not last 1 week in the mining industry...you think they pay that money out of the goodness of their hearts?
For those of you bemoaning the aviation industry, fecking GROW UP!!!!
No flying school gauranteed you anything. They merely gave you the training to reach the first rung and the rest is entirely up to you. If you're skilled enough, persistant enough and a little lucky you can reach the top rung and get paid very well...that top rung may not be in Australia. The top rung in Australia has only so much room...and is populated with pilots who were skilled, persistant and lucky, but started years before you. If you are not dedicated enough to seek high rungs where ever they are found, Asia, ME or darkest fecking Africa tough titty...no one cares that you were not dedicated enough so **** off and cry to someone else.
If money is all that motivates you I can absolutely gaurantee you of one thing though...you will never be happy because you will not have the dedication and fascination with your chosen career to stick at it long enough to end up good enough to make use of the luck when it crosses your path.
There are only so many positions available at the top of any industry...not everyone makes it to the top...does the average GP get paid the same as a Brain Surgeon, the average singer get paid the same is a top star, the average actor get paid the same as George Clooney, the average lawyer get paid the same as a QC?
The only difference is there is not a Professional Entertainers Rumour Network where the 98% of 'failed' actors/singers can come and bitch in between waiting tables and doing the odd advert/backing track singing they get paid scale for.
The one thing remains true though...successful, happy people love their jobs and would do them as a hobby if they couldn't do them as a job...their dedication and fascination for their jobs takes them to places they never invisaged when they started out...and that might be the top rungs of their profession.
To suggest flying schools should deliberately run down the industry is just rediculous...what person running a business would do that and destroy his business...what % of stary eyed young pilot hopefulls would listen? They would quite correctly assume that CFI was an idiot and take their money elsewhere....the flying school across the road.
In every industry there are a small % who earn many times the average of their profession...the average electrician would not last 1 week in the mining industry...you think they pay that money out of the goodness of their hearts?
For those of you bemoaning the aviation industry, fecking GROW UP!!!!
No flying school gauranteed you anything. They merely gave you the training to reach the first rung and the rest is entirely up to you. If you're skilled enough, persistant enough and a little lucky you can reach the top rung and get paid very well...that top rung may not be in Australia. The top rung in Australia has only so much room...and is populated with pilots who were skilled, persistant and lucky, but started years before you. If you are not dedicated enough to seek high rungs where ever they are found, Asia, ME or darkest fecking Africa tough titty...no one cares that you were not dedicated enough so **** off and cry to someone else.
If money is all that motivates you I can absolutely gaurantee you of one thing though...you will never be happy because you will not have the dedication and fascination with your chosen career to stick at it long enough to end up good enough to make use of the luck when it crosses your path.
There are only so many positions available at the top of any industry...not everyone makes it to the top...does the average GP get paid the same as a Brain Surgeon, the average singer get paid the same is a top star, the average actor get paid the same as George Clooney, the average lawyer get paid the same as a QC?
The only difference is there is not a Professional Entertainers Rumour Network where the 98% of 'failed' actors/singers can come and bitch in between waiting tables and doing the odd advert/backing track singing they get paid scale for.
The one thing remains true though...successful, happy people love their jobs and would do them as a hobby if they couldn't do them as a job...their dedication and fascination for their jobs takes them to places they never invisaged when they started out...and that might be the top rungs of their profession.
To suggest flying schools should deliberately run down the industry is just rediculous...what person running a business would do that and destroy his business...what % of stary eyed young pilot hopefulls would listen? They would quite correctly assume that CFI was an idiot and take their money elsewhere....the flying school across the road.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 17th Dec 2006 at 10:20.
Seasonally Adjusted
The only difference is there is not a Professional Entertainers Rumour Network where the 98% of 'failed' actors/singers can come and bitch in between waiting tables and doing the odd advert/backing track singing they get paid scale for.
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Chimbu
Well said.
Those who are interested only in money have chosen the wrong profession. Sure, the flying schools are churning out masses of pilots and here in nz its not helped by an easy interest free student loan scheme. But in my experience, 80% of the muppets who turn up on day one of the course will not be there after 2 years to prostitute themselves out and steal our jobs. Of those that eventually make their CPL after shagging around and not bothering to turn up to class, most will see the light find it's too hard, grab another student loan and study something else.
Maybe I am exaggerating a little...But my point is it doesn't matter how many sausages the factories make, those who do make it to bigger and better things have had the intestinal fortitude to get there and good on them. They succeed because they WANT to fly. I don't think there will be many that look back on where they started in aviation and not have good memories despite the s**t they had to put up with on the way. If you are still bitter and twisted about how the industry has treated you, I hope i don't have to sit next to you in the cockpit one day and listen to you go on about it.
Those who are interested only in money have chosen the wrong profession. Sure, the flying schools are churning out masses of pilots and here in nz its not helped by an easy interest free student loan scheme. But in my experience, 80% of the muppets who turn up on day one of the course will not be there after 2 years to prostitute themselves out and steal our jobs. Of those that eventually make their CPL after shagging around and not bothering to turn up to class, most will see the light find it's too hard, grab another student loan and study something else.
Maybe I am exaggerating a little...But my point is it doesn't matter how many sausages the factories make, those who do make it to bigger and better things have had the intestinal fortitude to get there and good on them. They succeed because they WANT to fly. I don't think there will be many that look back on where they started in aviation and not have good memories despite the s**t they had to put up with on the way. If you are still bitter and twisted about how the industry has treated you, I hope i don't have to sit next to you in the cockpit one day and listen to you go on about it.
If you want to make money you would be better off taking the $50 000 that a CPL will cost you and buying an investment property or shares. Then get a job in KMART, at the end of five years you will be ahead financially compared to spending the money on a CPL, year off work while you study and the GA wages you will earn in the next four years IF you can get a job.
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"A 21 year old tradesman on 150k a year ...."
150k A YEAR !?!!, yeah working 3 jobs and 25 hour shifts each day.
21 year old tradesman, who by that age is probably just recently finished his/her apprenticeship is never going to earn that much money. I know, because I've held many and similar jobs in the past and I'm well aware of the pay rates in the industry.
Your friends are just blowin smoke up your a$$.
150k A YEAR !?!!, yeah working 3 jobs and 25 hour shifts each day.
21 year old tradesman, who by that age is probably just recently finished his/her apprenticeship is never going to earn that much money. I know, because I've held many and similar jobs in the past and I'm well aware of the pay rates in the industry.
Your friends are just blowin smoke up your a$$.
Grandpa Aerotart
Her ya go fellas...anyone interested...great career opportunity or what?
$1500 approximately/day NET..varies a little from place to place and on experience...but $1500 is a low average.
Work 12 days a mth/18 days a month off. Shift work involved with the average shift being 7-8 hrs long. You're not paid on days off...or if you prefer to look at it this way you could say $500/day net average.
Accomadation supplied as well as lodgings and per diems when at work.
Excellent working environment with strong OH&S base.
Sunsidised travel opportunities.
2 mths annual leave.
Little experience required to start with and significant on the job training provided by the employer. Starting wage around $1000/day net or $400/day average NET...all other benefits the same.
Other sundry employment benefits vary slightly regionally.
Anyone interested... curious?
$1500 approximately/day NET..varies a little from place to place and on experience...but $1500 is a low average.
Work 12 days a mth/18 days a month off. Shift work involved with the average shift being 7-8 hrs long. You're not paid on days off...or if you prefer to look at it this way you could say $500/day net average.
Accomadation supplied as well as lodgings and per diems when at work.
Excellent working environment with strong OH&S base.
Sunsidised travel opportunities.
2 mths annual leave.
Little experience required to start with and significant on the job training provided by the employer. Starting wage around $1000/day net or $400/day average NET...all other benefits the same.
Other sundry employment benefits vary slightly regionally.
Anyone interested... curious?
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Chuck - yep, yer right.
Anyone with the smarts to make it in aviation could get into my 'other' profession and be paid $50K + for their first year of a 3 year training program, come out the other end with a Diploma and make $100k + a year, without leaving Oz.
You can also make quite serious bucks flying; just not necessarily instantly when you get outa the training program with a bare CPL
living in your favourite capital city .
Its a matter of what you want to do - make a living, or live life.
In that vein - OK, I'll bite - WTF you on about with that job?
Anyone with the smarts to make it in aviation could get into my 'other' profession and be paid $50K + for their first year of a 3 year training program, come out the other end with a Diploma and make $100k + a year, without leaving Oz.
You can also make quite serious bucks flying; just not necessarily instantly when you get outa the training program with a bare CPL
living in your favourite capital city .Its a matter of what you want to do - make a living, or live life.
In that vein - OK, I'll bite - WTF you on about with that job?
Grandpa Aerotart
Expat airline pilot.
Actually I made a mistake...I probably only average 8 days a mth actually working...maybe 9...making the average pay per day probably closer to $2000...it's actually not something I spend much time thinking about.
But it's very nice of the company to fly me from one pissup with mates to another and cover my red wine bill as well...with DTAs.
But don't spread it around...it might be deemed BS propaganda put out by dishonest flying school owners and instructors as a way of duping the gullable to part with hard earned cash which will be completely wasted on flying lessons
Many of the guys I work with were cadets and many of the other expats had nothing but 3000-4000 hrs and some Metro time before buying a type rating and applying...at other places similar experience with time in Dash 8s seems to be popular with the recruiters...ie KA,CX. Hardly what you would consider massive requirements to gain entry...if you're skilled enough and persistant enough and have a little luck.
Actually I made a mistake...I probably only average 8 days a mth actually working...maybe 9...making the average pay per day probably closer to $2000...it's actually not something I spend much time thinking about.
But it's very nice of the company to fly me from one pissup with mates to another and cover my red wine bill as well...with DTAs.
But don't spread it around...it might be deemed BS propaganda put out by dishonest flying school owners and instructors as a way of duping the gullable to part with hard earned cash which will be completely wasted on flying lessons
Many of the guys I work with were cadets and many of the other expats had nothing but 3000-4000 hrs and some Metro time before buying a type rating and applying...at other places similar experience with time in Dash 8s seems to be popular with the recruiters...ie KA,CX. Hardly what you would consider massive requirements to gain entry...if you're skilled enough and persistant enough and have a little luck.
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Jimmy,
Those Perth prices have risen that high because of the people in the present boom time earning over $100g a year,and eastern states investors moving in as Perth was cheap before compared to the other cities.
Lack of land put blocks of land up high ,lack of tradesmen put the cost of building up etc.
As for tradesman,yes they are all earning big bucks.The mining companies have trouble getting them now because they can make a big buck in the city ,so why head bush.
Give it a few years and things will change.
WA and QLD are the boom states---------Why-----------mining boom.
Those Perth prices have risen that high because of the people in the present boom time earning over $100g a year,and eastern states investors moving in as Perth was cheap before compared to the other cities.
Lack of land put blocks of land up high ,lack of tradesmen put the cost of building up etc.
As for tradesman,yes they are all earning big bucks.The mining companies have trouble getting them now because they can make a big buck in the city ,so why head bush.
Give it a few years and things will change.
WA and QLD are the boom states---------Why-----------mining boom.