Casa Have Your Say Forum
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Casa Have Your Say Forum
Has anyone attended the HAVE YOUR SAY forums concerning the new charges for CASA services? I will plan to attend the Moorabbin day on 20 September.
Details are on the CASA web page: http://www.casa.gov.au/seminars/costrecovery.htm
I was hoping for some feedback from this forum. Perhaps we could STICKY this thread to encourage feed back. What about it Woomera?
Details are on the CASA web page: http://www.casa.gov.au/seminars/costrecovery.htm
I was hoping for some feedback from this forum. Perhaps we could STICKY this thread to encourage feed back. What about it Woomera?
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Do you reckon they'll actually listen to our thoughts? And, excuse me for being ignorant, but they've said we're going to cop more charges anway, so do you really think that they will change their plans much, if at all, after hearing our opinions or will they just end up screwing round and wasting even more money?
I'm hopeful that there is a positive in this, so please let me know if I am wrong! I can only hope i am!
787 Captain
I'm hopeful that there is a positive in this, so please let me know if I am wrong! I can only hope i am!
787 Captain
Well they are not even holding a forum in South Australia - "resources did not allow" was the official explanation - so much for consultation. And before Gibson says you can look it up on the website and contribute that's really not good enough!
And I eagerly await a refund on paid fees for two hourly rated jobs - approval for another CP to carry out a CAO 20.11 check (same as last year - just change the date and reprint) quoted at $130 and CAO 48 exemption (again same as last year - change the date and reprint) quoted at $260. No wonder they do not want to come to SA and confront the industry face to face.
There were some good people in CASA once.
And I eagerly await a refund on paid fees for two hourly rated jobs - approval for another CP to carry out a CAO 20.11 check (same as last year - just change the date and reprint) quoted at $130 and CAO 48 exemption (again same as last year - change the date and reprint) quoted at $260. No wonder they do not want to come to SA and confront the industry face to face.
There were some good people in CASA once.
yes, i attended and overall thought they were trying to sell something that is basically impossible to sell!
having said that, the whole structure of what they are trying to do is wrong, in that they have a budget and are trying to make the charges fit, where they should be establishing charges the industry can accomodate and then working out what they will receive and setting their budget to that number. nobody in private industry could get away with the policy they are trying to follow. it was obvious that if charges were reduced in one area, then in all probability they will increase elsewhere to make up the difference...
some of the participants knew their subject and spoke well, whilst some others were just there for the ride (so it seemed). i did get the feeling that they were there to listen, but only time will tell if any of the ideas and suggestions get to first base ??
if you have the time and some ideas, then it is worth going along and participating in the process. just remember that the charges are there because the Govt said so and your suggestions etc have to fit in with that !!
one thing that did come to light was that they are now looking at the return of the credit card licence, perhaps with an asic id on the back - talk about the wheel turning a full circle - actually i think it is a good idea, especially for PPLs etc who cant really carry the book about ! again time will tell...
having said that, the whole structure of what they are trying to do is wrong, in that they have a budget and are trying to make the charges fit, where they should be establishing charges the industry can accomodate and then working out what they will receive and setting their budget to that number. nobody in private industry could get away with the policy they are trying to follow. it was obvious that if charges were reduced in one area, then in all probability they will increase elsewhere to make up the difference...
some of the participants knew their subject and spoke well, whilst some others were just there for the ride (so it seemed). i did get the feeling that they were there to listen, but only time will tell if any of the ideas and suggestions get to first base ??
if you have the time and some ideas, then it is worth going along and participating in the process. just remember that the charges are there because the Govt said so and your suggestions etc have to fit in with that !!
one thing that did come to light was that they are now looking at the return of the credit card licence, perhaps with an asic id on the back - talk about the wheel turning a full circle - actually i think it is a good idea, especially for PPLs etc who cant really carry the book about ! again time will tell...
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Will They Listen?
I know it is easy to be cynical about the process and say that they won't listen to us anyway, but we still need to have our say. The debarkle re the ASIC is a good example. The system was a mess and caused them as much grief as us. They have to admit it can be done better.
If we have an intelligent approach and present reasoned arguments then their decisions have a chance of being fair. If we whinge and withdraw we will get what we are given.
If we have an intelligent approach and present reasoned arguments then their decisions have a chance of being fair. If we whinge and withdraw we will get what we are given.
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On eyre
CASA has responded to the concern about not having a meeting in Adelaide to talk about fees. It is being held on September 28 at the Holiday Inn, 65 Hindley St, from 6pm.
Full details at:www.casa.gov.au/corporat/fees/index.htm
cheers pg
CASA has responded to the concern about not having a meeting in Adelaide to talk about fees. It is being held on September 28 at the Holiday Inn, 65 Hindley St, from 6pm.
Full details at:www.casa.gov.au/corporat/fees/index.htm
cheers pg
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I think the combined ASIC / Licence idea is fantastic, even makes sense, who would have thought ?.
The ASIC incident was not CASA's doing, you can blame the knee-jerk reaction of the government followed by the shiny new DOTARS waving its magic heavy handed wand over an industry it would appear they know very little about ( transport security program was sold as an industry/DOTARS initiative, what a crock ).
It makes perfect sense to work out how much it cost to run CASA then work backwards to make up a schedule of standard fee's, unless you want CASA to be capitalists, you know supply and demand. As CASA is the only organisation that can do what it does, they could charge whatever they feel. ( have you ever had a leaky tap in a town that has only one Plumber ? ).
CASA listening, that is a fundamental change from not that many years ago, it is a good thing in my opinion.
We can put forward lots of good suggestions, but if it won't work for CASA, it won't happen. That doesn't make them bad at their jobs, that suggests the Government is trying to acheive the unacheivable perhaps.
The ASIC incident was not CASA's doing, you can blame the knee-jerk reaction of the government followed by the shiny new DOTARS waving its magic heavy handed wand over an industry it would appear they know very little about ( transport security program was sold as an industry/DOTARS initiative, what a crock ).
It makes perfect sense to work out how much it cost to run CASA then work backwards to make up a schedule of standard fee's, unless you want CASA to be capitalists, you know supply and demand. As CASA is the only organisation that can do what it does, they could charge whatever they feel. ( have you ever had a leaky tap in a town that has only one Plumber ? ).
CASA listening, that is a fundamental change from not that many years ago, it is a good thing in my opinion.
We can put forward lots of good suggestions, but if it won't work for CASA, it won't happen. That doesn't make them bad at their jobs, that suggests the Government is trying to acheive the unacheivable perhaps.
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There is always strength in numbers, so have your say, but make sure you are being constructive and not just knocking the proposals because you don't like the charges.
Rule 1: If you don't like something, then say so, but be prepared to offer an alternative that might be better for all.
Rule 1: If you don't like something, then say so, but be prepared to offer an alternative that might be better for all.
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Dingley (Moorabbin) Forum
After attending the Melbourne "Have Your Say" Forum yesterday I can report.
CASA made a presentation that outlined in detail the complex process of cost recovery they have used to effect cost recovery in 3 phases. Phase 1 is current (commenced 1 Jan, 2006); phase 2 commences 1 July next year; Phase 3 is further on.
The presentation examined in depth the complex process of cost recovery options considered. The feeling portrayed by presenter was that this cost recovery agenda has been handed to CASA as a non negotiable mandate.
After presentations the forum was open for questions and discussion. Very quickly the anger and distress of the GA industry was evident. One speaker made it clear that after the full process of cost recovery was enacted most of the industry participants present would not be there as they would be out of business.
Further discussion ensued about the frailty of GA in Australia. How did CASA believe that such a small number of participants in GA could absorb such cost increases when the whole sector was in such a state of decline?
One speaker suggested a better option was to levy the vast population of airline travellers, domestic and international. A very small levy over this large population would recover costs without crippling GA.
Further discussion about improving efficiency within CASA ensued. The unwillingness of Minister Anderson and his department to respond to correspondence from forum participants was raised. Why wasn't a representative from the minister's department present at the forum?
On a more positive note the setting up of a new industry consultative process was discussed. I will post more detail when I receive the material from the forum via email from CASA.
I found the forum to be helpful with vigorous discussion. The CASA prenters were prepared to listen but made it clear that their hands were tied in that cost recovery was thrust on them by goverment. They were exhorted to take our issues back to government.
I will post again after digesting the material from the forum fwd to me from CASA.
CASA made a presentation that outlined in detail the complex process of cost recovery they have used to effect cost recovery in 3 phases. Phase 1 is current (commenced 1 Jan, 2006); phase 2 commences 1 July next year; Phase 3 is further on.
The presentation examined in depth the complex process of cost recovery options considered. The feeling portrayed by presenter was that this cost recovery agenda has been handed to CASA as a non negotiable mandate.
After presentations the forum was open for questions and discussion. Very quickly the anger and distress of the GA industry was evident. One speaker made it clear that after the full process of cost recovery was enacted most of the industry participants present would not be there as they would be out of business.
Further discussion ensued about the frailty of GA in Australia. How did CASA believe that such a small number of participants in GA could absorb such cost increases when the whole sector was in such a state of decline?
One speaker suggested a better option was to levy the vast population of airline travellers, domestic and international. A very small levy over this large population would recover costs without crippling GA.
Further discussion about improving efficiency within CASA ensued. The unwillingness of Minister Anderson and his department to respond to correspondence from forum participants was raised. Why wasn't a representative from the minister's department present at the forum?
On a more positive note the setting up of a new industry consultative process was discussed. I will post more detail when I receive the material from the forum via email from CASA.
I found the forum to be helpful with vigorous discussion. The CASA prenters were prepared to listen but made it clear that their hands were tied in that cost recovery was thrust on them by goverment. They were exhorted to take our issues back to government.
I will post again after digesting the material from the forum fwd to me from CASA.
Grandpa Aerotart
Minister Anderson?
Mr Truss reiterated the Government's support for the reform objectives of the National Airspace System (NAS).
Major elements of the NAS have already been implemented.
“Future airspace reforms, including the remaining NAS characteristics, will continue to be implemented following cost–benefit and risk analysis and consultation with stakeholders on the specific proposals,” Mr Truss said.
“If we are to retain a first class aviation system it is essential that airspace reforms be subjected to rigorous analysis and take full account of emerging technologies,” he said.
Mr Truss announced that the Uhrig assessments of Airservices Australia and CASA had been completed and that there would be no changes in the governance arrangements for Airservices Australia. The Government announced in April 2004 that Airservices would eventually be prescribed as a government business enterprise.
CASA will be brought under the Financial Management and Accountability Act 1997 and the Public Service Act 1999 .
Mr Truss said legislation to implement the changes would be introduced into the Parliament as soon as possible. The OAR will come into effect from 1 July 2007.
Major elements of the NAS have already been implemented.
“Future airspace reforms, including the remaining NAS characteristics, will continue to be implemented following cost–benefit and risk analysis and consultation with stakeholders on the specific proposals,” Mr Truss said.
“If we are to retain a first class aviation system it is essential that airspace reforms be subjected to rigorous analysis and take full account of emerging technologies,” he said.
Mr Truss announced that the Uhrig assessments of Airservices Australia and CASA had been completed and that there would be no changes in the governance arrangements for Airservices Australia. The Government announced in April 2004 that Airservices would eventually be prescribed as a government business enterprise.
CASA will be brought under the Financial Management and Accountability Act 1997 and the Public Service Act 1999 .
Mr Truss said legislation to implement the changes would be introduced into the Parliament as soon as possible. The OAR will come into effect from 1 July 2007.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 21st Sep 2006 at 00:13.
