Boeing Engine Failure After Take-Off Quest.

[160knots]

If I was flying a B767 and the FMC had been programmed for say single engine acceleration of 800ft. However the climb out for 2 engines was programmed for a thrust reduction at 1500ft and acceleration altitude of 3000ft, Flaps15 for take-off.

With those conditions say an engine failed at 2000ft and the flaps were at 15. Climb thrust was indicated on the EICAS. What would be your actions??

Any 767 drivers out there wish to comment?

[jack red]

PNF - select autothrottle OFF
- start APU
- crossfeed OPEN.
PF - call for " HDG SEL "
- call " VS 100, Vref+80 " - clean up & call " FLCH, MCT " @ Vref+80
- identify engine & call for " ENGINE FAILURE " checklist
when complete:
- call for " AFTER TAKE-OFF " checklist
- check engine parameters & reason for failure & consider restart. Call for -
- " ENGINE INFLIGHT START " or return to land.
- inform ATC & check weather , ask for clearance to return or divert to alternate.
- dump fuel ( max landing weight 136,077 or 145,149 ),
- set landing data & briefing - Autobrakes 2,
- call " APPROACH CHECKLIST ",
- call " LANDING CHECKLIST ",

[king oath]

Lowering the nose would be a good starting point.

[160knots]

EFATO

So Jackred you will accelerate from the 2000ft engine failure point with flap15 using climb power, then retract flap on speed and after flaps are up select fltch?

Why cant you reselect TOGA, accelerate, retract the flaps and then select fltch(Max Con).

[haughtney1]

So Jackred you will accelerate from the 2000ft engine failure point with flap15 using climb power, then retract flap on speed and after flaps are up select fltch?

Why cant you reselect TOGA, accelerate, retract the flaps and then select fltch(Max Con).

Simple...because you are now single engine....and cant use the auto throttle

[jack red]

Q1. Correct.

Q2. haughtney1 has answered that one for you.

King Oath VS (vertical speed) 100 (100' per minute) is lowering the nose.

[Capt Fathom]

PNF - select autothrottle OFF
- start APU
- crossfeed OPEN.

Would have thought these items would come much later, as part of a checklist, or are they recall actions?

[Speeds high]

Dont know about the crossfeed as im not a 767 person, but as far as the APU goes, the boeing checklist allows a pilot to preempt the checklist using sound judgment and airmanship. As it takes a minute to get the APU going, hitting the start is a good idea if its not already running.

I stand to be corrected here

[BAE146]

Not sure if it recall or not but makes sense to do those three things sooner rather than later and definitely NOT MUCH later Capt Fathom.

Auto throttle OFF on most twin engine aircraft during assymetric ops.
APU a must (again on twin engine a/c) as soon as possible in case you lose a generator on the good donk.
Start crossfeeding ASAP to prevent a fuel imbalance if you get bogged down further along in the checklists.

[160knots]

Well I have an up to date Boeing manual which I borrowed. However the EFATO scenario covers a failure at V1. If using a derate and assumed temp it says I can select TOGA after the engine failure select gear up and only after reaching acceleration altitude and flaps up I can select FLTLCH (MAXCON). Aircraft is flown with autothrottle engaged the autothrottle servo on the failed engine is turned off.

However it does not cover the case where climb thrust is engaged and flap is still in the take off config. Hence the query. I believe the old theory of autopilot out, autothrottle out is no longer applicable on the new Boeings.

[Capt Fathom]

Start crossfeeding ASAP to prevent a fuel imbalance if you get bogged down further along in the checklists.

What if the engine failure is from fuel contamination?
Will a fuel imbalance become that big a deal that quickly?
I'm thinking priorities here. Fly the plane, deal with the engine failure, then tidy up the rest afterwards, if they're not already covered by checklists.
Reference the original question, airlines may have differing views on A/T use with an engine out. In your scenario, as the engine failure has occurred AFTER thrust reduction to CLB Thrust, you will have to reselect TOGA (either manual or A/T) for the cleanup. Once cleaned up, use Max Cont Thrust.

[BAE146]

What if the engine failure is from fuel contamination?

Then you won't get your APU started and generator failure on the good donk won't matter anyway.

Will a fuel imbalance become that big a deal that quickly?

You bet it will.

Fly the plane, deal with the engine failure,.......

I believe the PF is doing that from the start. PNF is carrying out the A/T,APU & crossfeed configuration.

[Chimbu chuckles]

The Boeing SOP for a straight engine flame out is, essentially, fly the aeroplane up to MSA, level off, trim, engage A/P and pull out the QRH.

However many airlines, and certainly the one I work for, require a slightly different approach.

In your scenario it sounds like you're, at 2000', most of the way through a noise abate procedure...which just went out the window when the failure occurred.

PF: Fly aeroplane/trim/ident engine/call for recall items EF/SD/Sep

PNF: Confirms engine, calls and actions, after confirmation, recall items for Engine fire/Severe damage/separation.

PNF: At or above 700' AAL calls Flap retract. Gives a Pan/Mayday call when appropriate. 2000' is most definately abbove Flap retract and I would expect the same call...we are programmed to function off these cues and add libbing just fecks you up.

PF: Engage A/P-VS+200, accel to Vref 30+40/80 depending on immediate return or extended holding/divert. trim

PF: At Vref 30+40/80 FLCH/MCT climb to MSA. Call for reference items EF/SD/Sep. Selecting FLCH opens the 'speed window' and selecting MCT on the TMP sets a bug to the MCT EPR and you manually adjust the thrust. This is where the APU would be selected on etc...not necesarily crossfeed until deemed necesary. Somewhere in here you would select the ALTSEL to something appropriate.

PF: Level at safe alt review why failed/possible restart/if returning for immediate landing probably not bother/if restart check for more than idle thrust. By now probably on downwind so my personal 'pneumonic' is '3 As, 2 Bs and a C'

ATIS- Check weather above approach ban if in doubt.
Auto brakes- Set as required
Approach- Programmed in FMC/Navaids set/checked.
Bugs- Vref 20 etc set
Briefing- App and NITS Brief to CSO
Checklist - Approach Checklist complete.

Fly the circuit. Gear down/flaps 20 on finals/landing checklist. GA review.

Taxi in park aeroplane and go home/hotel/drink beer

I very much doubt I have ever seen anyone **** with crossfeed until it is obvious that an imbalance is occurring and extended vectors/holding make it appropriate to bother about...generally the 'Fuel Config' light comes on and people just review why it has illuminated i.e. "Right engine is shutdown, Left side is low but 10000kg remaining in that tank, we're turning base for landing, ignore it." Or "Crossfeed on please".

As far as dumping fuel is concerned...only if short runway...essentially Boeing says 'any runway you can takeoff from you can land immediately flap 20 and stop'. So essentially I would not dump fuel unless absolutely necesary...8000' runway, wet etc probably yes...11000' runway I would happily land, autobrakes 2, max reverse on good engine at 170000kg. MLW is not considered that limiting.

Do all the above at my company and they would be happy...it probably varies at others in terms of the words used to achieve the same ends.

[160knots]

Surge.

Say you were really heavy and at 2000ft you had max climb thrust ie (not CLB1 or CLB2), 15 flap on a programmed acceleration of 3000ft and you had a violent surge and loud banging from the Left Engine would you consider disarming the left autothrottle arm switch wind the speed up to say flaps up speed which will give you a reduced ROC and then reselect TOGA or would you go with the climb thrust you had?