Employment prospects in OZ GA.
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Employment prospects in OZ GA.
Gday,
I just discovered this forum, and I was hoping to really learn about the aviation industry downunder. I seem to know more about the situation in the US because I frequently visit their forums.
Basically I would like to pursue a career as a pilot. I know its a rough road for a lot of pilots, but I was just wondering if a pilot could make a living other then flying heavy iron. Of course I wouldn't hesitate to take a jet job, but the reality is that airline jobs are fiercly competative, so I want know what other flying opportunities there are. Are there opportunities for Australian pilots abroad? Are CASA certificates accepted in Europe or US for instance? What sort of salary range is there in OZ GA flying jobs?
If there are some GA pilots that could point me in the right direction I would love to hear from you. Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
Cheers
Tristan
I just discovered this forum, and I was hoping to really learn about the aviation industry downunder. I seem to know more about the situation in the US because I frequently visit their forums.
Basically I would like to pursue a career as a pilot. I know its a rough road for a lot of pilots, but I was just wondering if a pilot could make a living other then flying heavy iron. Of course I wouldn't hesitate to take a jet job, but the reality is that airline jobs are fiercly competative, so I want know what other flying opportunities there are. Are there opportunities for Australian pilots abroad? Are CASA certificates accepted in Europe or US for instance? What sort of salary range is there in OZ GA flying jobs?
If there are some GA pilots that could point me in the right direction I would love to hear from you. Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
Cheers
Tristan
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Hey sorry guys I just found a thread on instructing which gave me a good insight. However, I am still open to any views, especially non intructing jobs.
Cheers
Tristan
Cheers
Tristan
You can certainly make a living. It's just a matter of whether it is enough of a living.
You can earn towards $100,000 in some GA companies if you stay long enough to get in to the check and training side of things. Or around $80,000 otherwise (in the same select GA companies.)
You can earn towards $100,000 in some GA companies if you stay long enough to get in to the check and training side of things. Or around $80,000 otherwise (in the same select GA companies.)
Last edited by AerocatS2A; 3rd Jun 2006 at 14:16.
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Me too me too me tooo 
I 'd like to know what kind of GA aviation opportunity i may have in Australia...
I'm earning the CPL in Brisbane at the moment i will definitly proceed with ATPL Teory ...
I am not planning to stay here for ever and get an airline job who allow me to live here..but i wish to stay as long as i can build a good fly-resumè...
Is it possibile to find job and where's the best location?
Thanks... Carmine
I 'd like to know what kind of GA aviation opportunity i may have in Australia...
I'm earning the CPL in Brisbane at the moment i will definitly proceed with ATPL Teory ...
I am not planning to stay here for ever and get an airline job who allow me to live here..but i wish to stay as long as i can build a good fly-resumè...
Is it possibile to find job and where's the best location?
Thanks... Carmine
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While it's good you're posting on here, be abit smarter and one step ahead of the others.
Do you know how many "Wannabee" pilots read this worldwide? It will astound you and it only takes 1 resume to be ahead of you, to miss a job, so research in stealth, use resources available (ie Fridays Australian, Pprune Search option...)... use the phone... talk and visit people face to face so they can judge your character, if short of experience.
Keep a log of Who/Where/When/Contact numbers/CV sent? etc... be diligent and KEEP Updating your CV!!!
I cracked my last job well before anyone knew about it. The job wasn't advertised either!
It hasn't been better for jobs in the Asia Pacific area for along time, from outback singles to widebody jets... what ever "floats your boat"
Happy Landings
P.S. A tip: If not already sold out, Flight Internationals' last few Issues were "World Airline Directories"...
Do you know how many "Wannabee" pilots read this worldwide? It will astound you and it only takes 1 resume to be ahead of you, to miss a job, so research in stealth, use resources available (ie Fridays Australian, Pprune Search option...)... use the phone... talk and visit people face to face so they can judge your character, if short of experience.
Keep a log of Who/Where/When/Contact numbers/CV sent? etc... be diligent and KEEP Updating your CV!!!
I cracked my last job well before anyone knew about it. The job wasn't advertised either!
It hasn't been better for jobs in the Asia Pacific area for along time, from outback singles to widebody jets... what ever "floats your boat"
Happy Landings
P.S. A tip: If not already sold out, Flight Internationals' last few Issues were "World Airline Directories"...
Captains with companies like Surveillance Australia can earn over $80,000 (including allowances.) I realise that it is the top of the GA ladder, but it is GA all the same. Then there is RFDS and Aerorescue etc. You can certainly live comfortably in GA.
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And there are a few GA companies that do pay the Award, operate well maintained aircraft and provide career development and progression.
Your mission, should you decide to accept, is to locate those companies.
This post may self immolate in five seconds.........
Sunny Woomera
Your mission, should you decide to accept, is to locate those companies.
This post may self immolate in five seconds.........
Sunny Woomera
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Thanks for the info, it's quite a contrast to the negatively surounding this industry. All I hear about OZ GA is that pilots are flying for nothing and even paying companies too build their hours up. I guess it's important to realise that not every pilot has the exact same ambitions or goals.
I would love to fly jets, but if that doesn't happen I'm not going to cry myself to sleep every night, I just want to know that there are other options. I don't have great aspirations to make a 6 figure salary, I just want to enjoy my work and do ok .
Cheers
Tristan
I would love to fly jets, but if that doesn't happen I'm not going to cry myself to sleep every night, I just want to know that there are other options. I don't have great aspirations to make a 6 figure salary, I just want to enjoy my work and do ok
. Cheers
Tristan
You have to remember that the minimum requirements for companies that pay the award is going to be higher. RFDS you would need 1000 multi command plus remote area night etc. Even bugsmasher companies that pay the award will still need a 1000-1500 hours with a few hundred multi engine. Some of them even want 500 ME command to comply with mining requirements.
Surveillance you would need at least a 1000 hours with some night experience thrown in there too. Pearl would require a few 1000 hours with 500 multi.
Most of these jobs you will be living in the bush too not major cities on the east coast!
Surveillance you would need at least a 1000 hours with some night experience thrown in there too. Pearl would require a few 1000 hours with 500 multi.
Most of these jobs you will be living in the bush too not major cities on the east coast!
Originally Posted by neville_nobody
Surveillance you would need at least a 1000 hours with some night experience thrown in there too. Pearl would require a few 1000 hours with 500 multi.
India, SE Asia, Japan. All you need to get a RH seat in a Boeing or Airbus is a CPL and 200 hours plus of course being a local. In Australia the situation has never changed in 30 years. A huge oversupply of pilots means the lousiest operators can pick and choose which means even with 1000 hours you are behind the mob. Hence the absolute desperation faced by new CPL's who are forced to almost fly for free or go on the dole. PNG used to be a mecca for new CPL with 200 hours. But the oversupply of pilots in Australia has steadily pushed up the minimum PNG operators requirements to at least 1000 hours. The insurance companies are partly to blame but if pilots were in really short supply in PNG just watch the insurance premiums drop.
To get an idea of the oversupply of CPL's in OZ just look at the number of three and four bar "captains" hanging around the coffee machines at the flying schools!
To get an idea of the oversupply of CPL's in OZ just look at the number of three and four bar "captains" hanging around the coffee machines at the flying schools!
Silly Old Git
India, SE Asia, Japan. All you need to get a RH seat in a Boeing or Airbus is a CPL and 200 hours plus of course being a local.
We wont mention whats in the other seat 
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Will they fly??
The flood of newly qualified cpl's are an embarssment to Australian aviation. There are a lot of keen, capable young people who have geat enthusiasm, and potential, who have paid a lot of money to flying schools, and done a lot of work to get where they are.
Unfortunately there are hardly any jobs for them today, and this has been the case for at least two decades, or more.
Only a few have been able to get airline jobs and many quit trying after a few months or a few years, when they realise for themselves what the facts actually are. Quite a few eventually get a job in GA,(in the first two years) flying mainly piston singles, and light twins after a few years. Some never get that first job. Some go on to airlines (about 5%) after GA flying for up to 10 years.
There are a few good jobs in GA, and some pilots make a good living flying GA aircraft for life, usually in the outback. And they usually have special skills, or attitudes that others do not have. (like low level survey, Chief pilot, lame/pilot, maintenance controller, HAMic or career bush pilot etc.) Those who talk about "clapped out Cessnas" and things like that do not get far. If it is "clapped out" you should not be flying it, and should not be there. A negative attitude is does not help anyone, and is not welcomed by aviators anywhere.
Going to outback Australia is usually a huge culture shock for most city dwellers, and going from an outback town to an aboriginal community in the back of beyond (like 700 km from the nearest town) is more so. Civilisation stops at the blue mountains. This is where most of Australias flying takes place. The roads are not built yet.
Most of the flying out here is done in piston egined aircraft. Only the Govt financed ones, or the gold mines have turboprops.We see a bizjet about once a year, and they do not go beyond the major centres.
The flood of newbie pilots has encouraged some city flying schools to bring shiny,crosshired, newly painted, 30 year old aircraft to outback towns, so they can sell training, and ICUS to young hopefuls in the cities. So we now get a continual turnover of beginners, looking for jobs, working for nothing, and undercutting the career GA pilots. So there are not so many worthwhile GA jobs any more. Some of the lesser operators are just as ruthless as the pilots and they set out to exploit one another. So operators no longer pay for endorsements as the pilot will leave soon, because he never wanted to be there. in the first place.This is sad. The pilots, operators (some of them) and the travelling public deserve better than this.
Newly qualified cpl's are usually out of their depth for the first year of outback flying (I had four bent nose locker doors to prove it. All bent when they were left unlatched by commercial pilots in their first year) and you have to look after them. One pilot had the rear door of a C206 come open in flight and twist the fuselage. He did not report it. He is now a training captain with an airline in Australia.
The accident figures show that most of the accidents happen to inexperienced pilots. So, to provide a safe, reliable service to people of the outback, you need a mix of experienced, and low time pilots. Responsible people who want to be there, and will work to make things better and safer. People who have a wealth of essential local knowledge. People who plan to still be there next year. Not a continual turnover of transient GPS followers.
I usually make myself most unpopular with post like this, because there are a lot of pretenders out there who do not want to acknowledge the facts as they are.
And it is not just GA. Some of the airlines are making money with a continual turnover of new FO,s who do not get the opportunity to continue on.
I believe the Multi crew licence is highly desirable, as the airline wannabies will be heading for the airlines, and not having to spend time in GA, where they do not want to be.
I feel sorry for the young pilots who have such uncertainty, and ashamed of the flying schools that are exploiting them.
Unfortunately there are hardly any jobs for them today, and this has been the case for at least two decades, or more.
Only a few have been able to get airline jobs and many quit trying after a few months or a few years, when they realise for themselves what the facts actually are. Quite a few eventually get a job in GA,(in the first two years) flying mainly piston singles, and light twins after a few years. Some never get that first job. Some go on to airlines (about 5%) after GA flying for up to 10 years.
There are a few good jobs in GA, and some pilots make a good living flying GA aircraft for life, usually in the outback. And they usually have special skills, or attitudes that others do not have. (like low level survey, Chief pilot, lame/pilot, maintenance controller, HAMic or career bush pilot etc.) Those who talk about "clapped out Cessnas" and things like that do not get far. If it is "clapped out" you should not be flying it, and should not be there. A negative attitude is does not help anyone, and is not welcomed by aviators anywhere.
Going to outback Australia is usually a huge culture shock for most city dwellers, and going from an outback town to an aboriginal community in the back of beyond (like 700 km from the nearest town) is more so. Civilisation stops at the blue mountains. This is where most of Australias flying takes place. The roads are not built yet.
Most of the flying out here is done in piston egined aircraft. Only the Govt financed ones, or the gold mines have turboprops.We see a bizjet about once a year, and they do not go beyond the major centres.
The flood of newbie pilots has encouraged some city flying schools to bring shiny,crosshired, newly painted, 30 year old aircraft to outback towns, so they can sell training, and ICUS to young hopefuls in the cities. So we now get a continual turnover of beginners, looking for jobs, working for nothing, and undercutting the career GA pilots. So there are not so many worthwhile GA jobs any more. Some of the lesser operators are just as ruthless as the pilots and they set out to exploit one another. So operators no longer pay for endorsements as the pilot will leave soon, because he never wanted to be there. in the first place.This is sad. The pilots, operators (some of them) and the travelling public deserve better than this.
Newly qualified cpl's are usually out of their depth for the first year of outback flying (I had four bent nose locker doors to prove it. All bent when they were left unlatched by commercial pilots in their first year) and you have to look after them. One pilot had the rear door of a C206 come open in flight and twist the fuselage. He did not report it. He is now a training captain with an airline in Australia.
The accident figures show that most of the accidents happen to inexperienced pilots. So, to provide a safe, reliable service to people of the outback, you need a mix of experienced, and low time pilots. Responsible people who want to be there, and will work to make things better and safer. People who have a wealth of essential local knowledge. People who plan to still be there next year. Not a continual turnover of transient GPS followers.
I usually make myself most unpopular with post like this, because there are a lot of pretenders out there who do not want to acknowledge the facts as they are.
And it is not just GA. Some of the airlines are making money with a continual turnover of new FO,s who do not get the opportunity to continue on.
I believe the Multi crew licence is highly desirable, as the airline wannabies will be heading for the airlines, and not having to spend time in GA, where they do not want to be.
I feel sorry for the young pilots who have such uncertainty, and ashamed of the flying schools that are exploiting them.
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Originally Posted by bushy
Some never get that first job. Some go on to airlines (about 5%) after GA flying for up to 10 years.
Would pilots get knocked back by the airlines for medical reasons even if they had a class 1 medical?
What is the differential factor between the people of the 5% and the people in the 95%?
Are there better prospects for OZ pilots in the US or Europe?
Cheers
Tristan
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Think of GA aviation (and most other careers) as a pyramid. At the top of the heap is a very few people getting 80-100k. Ask around to find out how many CPL's have jobs outside the industry to make a living wage.
Well done bushy-at least there is someone willing to tell it how it is.
After having just been there done that with CPL training, it is quite amazing to transition through the "bulls##t selling" of the flying schools when you are pre ppl about "how wonderful flying is and because you have trained here you will be instantly employable" blah blah, then when you start thinking about "what next after cpl" the veil of secrecy gets torn away as you make contacts and they let you know in no uncertain terms what the industry is REALLY like.
I am currently in that period of limbo- just after cpl, just before first job and like every other fresh green cpl am very confused which path to tread. But I am still motivated, and I can tell you that there have been times when I have thought "whats the point? Its just a giant headf##k dealing with some people in aviation".
hoopdreams: from my extremely limited experience the only advice I can give you is before you start training-ask yourself if you have the self motivation to really succeed. No one other than you and your mummy want to see you succeed in aviation.
If you do decide to bite the bullet, then throughout your early training (before you get a bit aviation-wise and get contacts) be as cynical as you can with what the flying schools are trying to sell you. They assume that you have no idea what the real life of a fresh cpl pilot is after training, and 99% probably don't. Really get as most as you can out of your training as once you get a signature on the dotted line of your cpl licence the FS doesn't want to know about you anymore, you have no more cash to offer, so they have no more time for you.
After having just been there done that with CPL training, it is quite amazing to transition through the "bulls##t selling" of the flying schools when you are pre ppl about "how wonderful flying is and because you have trained here you will be instantly employable" blah blah, then when you start thinking about "what next after cpl" the veil of secrecy gets torn away as you make contacts and they let you know in no uncertain terms what the industry is REALLY like.
I am currently in that period of limbo- just after cpl, just before first job and like every other fresh green cpl am very confused which path to tread. But I am still motivated, and I can tell you that there have been times when I have thought "whats the point? Its just a giant headf##k dealing with some people in aviation".
hoopdreams: from my extremely limited experience the only advice I can give you is before you start training-ask yourself if you have the self motivation to really succeed. No one other than you and your mummy want to see you succeed in aviation.
If you do decide to bite the bullet, then throughout your early training (before you get a bit aviation-wise and get contacts) be as cynical as you can with what the flying schools are trying to sell you. They assume that you have no idea what the real life of a fresh cpl pilot is after training, and 99% probably don't. Really get as most as you can out of your training as once you get a signature on the dotted line of your cpl licence the FS doesn't want to know about you anymore, you have no more cash to offer, so they have no more time for you.