Employment prospects in OZ GA.
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Hi,
Thanks for the advise. I know that the industry isn't for the faint hearted. I remember there was a 7:30 report (or some show like that) which did a story on the pilot who was killed in that plane crash in Queensland, I think the aircraft was a 16 seater or something. They were doing IFR approach in poor visibility and flew into a mountain killing everyone onboard. The girlfriend of one of the pilots said that they sold their house to fund his dream to get into the airlines. She mentioned that he was basically flying for nothing to get the desired hours and that these GA operaters are using the 'airline job dream' factor as means of exploitation.
It makes me think that the only reason that these companies are doing it is because they can. Which is scary when you think how unethical people can be. The only reason we don't have slavery in this country is because there laws which forbid it.
I really don't know how to look at this desired path of mine, but I feel that I just have to go for it anyways. If I don't, I know I'll always be looking up in the sky wondering...
It may be that I'll just fly as a hobby, but I'm not in the position to make that decision yet. Thanks everyone for you valuable imput.
Cheers
Thanks for the advise. I know that the industry isn't for the faint hearted. I remember there was a 7:30 report (or some show like that) which did a story on the pilot who was killed in that plane crash in Queensland, I think the aircraft was a 16 seater or something. They were doing IFR approach in poor visibility and flew into a mountain killing everyone onboard. The girlfriend of one of the pilots said that they sold their house to fund his dream to get into the airlines. She mentioned that he was basically flying for nothing to get the desired hours and that these GA operaters are using the 'airline job dream' factor as means of exploitation.
It makes me think that the only reason that these companies are doing it is because they can. Which is scary when you think how unethical people can be. The only reason we don't have slavery in this country is because there laws which forbid it.
I really don't know how to look at this desired path of mine, but I feel that I just have to go for it anyways. If I don't, I know I'll always be looking up in the sky wondering...
It may be that I'll just fly as a hobby, but I'm not in the position to make that decision yet. Thanks everyone for you valuable imput.
Cheers
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Bushy,
I could say that the attitude displayed in your post doesn't help, but indeed, you are telling it like it is.
I still feel that attitude will determine your fate, though, no matter what state the industry (or any phase of life one goes through) takes.
After all, I would be willing to bet that a reasonable proportion of the guys you've hired over the years may not have "wanted to be there" initially, but once they adapt to the culture shock that you talk about, they end up loving it.
I'm a newly hatched CPL holder, and I didn't want to leave home either when I left. Who does? Who wants to leave a comfort zone, especially when headed into the unknown?
I didn't want to be there either, when I got my first job, but I still was determined to and feel that I gave the operator the best I knew how to do at the time with my minimal experience. Indeed, I needed looking after (that hasn't changed) and one of the first things I learned was that there is lots of important stuff that the schools don't teach you.
So, I'm not saying you're the type, but I hate it when operators consider pilots as just there for one purpose: themselves, cause not all of them are. In fact, the majority of people that I've had the privilege of working with/alongside have been there doing their utmost for the operator, cause they know in the process they will go far themselves.
As for now, I still haven't gotten home yet, but there's no way I'd have a better time than what I've had since I left. If only I had known it then.
520.
I still feel that attitude will determine your fate, though, no matter what state the industry (or any phase of life one goes through) takes.
After all, I would be willing to bet that a reasonable proportion of the guys you've hired over the years may not have "wanted to be there" initially, but once they adapt to the culture shock that you talk about, they end up loving it.
I'm a newly hatched CPL holder, and I didn't want to leave home either when I left. Who does? Who wants to leave a comfort zone, especially when headed into the unknown?
I didn't want to be there either, when I got my first job, but I still was determined to and feel that I gave the operator the best I knew how to do at the time with my minimal experience. Indeed, I needed looking after (that hasn't changed) and one of the first things I learned was that there is lots of important stuff that the schools don't teach you.
So, I'm not saying you're the type, but I hate it when operators consider pilots as just there for one purpose: themselves, cause not all of them are. In fact, the majority of people that I've had the privilege of working with/alongside have been there doing their utmost for the operator, cause they know in the process they will go far themselves.
As for now, I still haven't gotten home yet, but there's no way I'd have a better time than what I've had since I left. If only I had known it then.
520.
Last edited by Continental-520; 7th Jun 2006 at 08:31.
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Originally Posted by bushy
I feel sorry for the young pilots who have such uncertainty, and ashamed of the flying schools that are exploiting them.
The number of schools churning out CPL holders like some kind of sausage factory, are resulting in an ever-spiralling deterioration in opportunities within the industry. Yes, it's true that from time to time you read the headlines "looming pilot shortage," but it's either in some 3rd world corner, or referring to a shortage of EXPERIENCED pilots. The fact remains (at least here in Oz), that there will never be a shortage of pilots.
Having said that, we live in a capitalist, free market society. Anyone is entitled to pursue their dream of being a pilot if they so desire, and the various flying schools are only catering to that desire. I too cringe at some of the glam marketing gimmicks they employ to entice wannabe's in the door, but again they are only catering to a desire. Is it wrong? Well it all depends on one's perspective.
I knew from the outset that I was embarking on a highly competitive and ruthless pathway, but it still didn't stop me from parting with obscene amounts of money to do what I'd always wanted to do - and I was going to forge ahead with it, no matter what. Is the flying school really to blame for that?!?
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Originally Posted by The Bunglerat
I knew from the outset that I was embarking on a highly competitive and ruthless pathway, but it still didn't stop me from parting with obscene amounts of money to do what I'd always wanted to do - and I was going to forge ahead with it, no matter what. Is the flying school really to blame for that?!?
From what I've read, OZ aviation seems pretty bad compared to the scene in the US. THere seems to be more opportunities for regional pilots, although they do complain about the conditions, but the situation doesn't seem as bad to the point where there are no jobs, which is the impression I have. I've been told that one shouldn't have too much trouble becoming a regional FO if they work towards it in US.
View from across the pond
" I've been told that one shouldn't have too much trouble becoming a regional FO if they work towards it in US."
This is true, regionals are hiring at a free-flowing rate here in the US, a fact that people are willing to accept in the order of 19k USD to fly a shiny jet. Regionals are the american GA. Some good operators but alot of scoundrels.
On the other hand i, i relocated here to get that multi-time that is soo hard to get in Oz. The company i work for will hire you as an F/O on a multi-turbine at 500 hrs TT with potential to upgrade to PIC at 1200 (try getting a go at a baron back in Oz at that time). It is night freight but beats bashing round the bush ina piston single for years and years (sorry bushy). The most fun i have had was said bashing round the bush for 2 years and quite a rewarding experience but not quick exit from GA. And believe me you want to get out of GA.
cheers
This is true, regionals are hiring at a free-flowing rate here in the US, a fact that people are willing to accept in the order of 19k USD to fly a shiny jet. Regionals are the american GA. Some good operators but alot of scoundrels.
On the other hand i, i relocated here to get that multi-time that is soo hard to get in Oz. The company i work for will hire you as an F/O on a multi-turbine at 500 hrs TT with potential to upgrade to PIC at 1200 (try getting a go at a baron back in Oz at that time). It is night freight but beats bashing round the bush ina piston single for years and years (sorry bushy). The most fun i have had was said bashing round the bush for 2 years and quite a rewarding experience but not quick exit from GA. And believe me you want to get out of GA.
cheers
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I keep hearing an advertisement on a popular radio station in Perth for a certain school at Jandakot. "From zero to airline ready in just 12 months". What an absolute crock of *&%&. This certain school must have one of the worst failure rates for ex students. It is also known to be full of young rich kids.
Not to slag off this mob but seriously guys what you are doing is just wrong.
I dont think iver ever heard of anyone from this school going into a airline job straight after graduation.
Pretty weak i reckon anyway.
Gyro
Not to slag off this mob but seriously guys what you are doing is just wrong.
I dont think iver ever heard of anyone from this school going into a airline job straight after graduation.
Pretty weak i reckon anyway.
Gyro
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DUXNUtz,
Would you recommend an Australian pilot who wants a regional job to go to the US? Can foreign pilots obtain these sort of gigs despite local competition? Apart from REX what else is there in Australia? I don't know whether I could make an airline job, but I am very interested in a career as a regional, perhaps it's not so bad once you climb the seniority ladder. vbmenu_register("postmenu_2639860", true);
Would you recommend an Australian pilot who wants a regional job to go to the US? Can foreign pilots obtain these sort of gigs despite local competition? Apart from REX what else is there in Australia? I don't know whether I could make an airline job, but I am very interested in a career as a regional, perhaps it's not so bad once you climb the seniority ladder. vbmenu_register("postmenu_2639860", true);
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There were times when I was tempted to leave Oz and try my luck Stateside. "Jobs galore," they'd say. "Low hour drivers wanted for regional airlines," etc. Twin hours, turbine hours, jet hours, and so on. Sounds too good to be true!
However, it's all relative. So what if there are more employment opportunities in the US than here? It pretty much cancels itself out when you account for the fact that there are so many more pilots over there as well. No doubt there are some great opportunities in the US for those who are in the right place at the right time, but I don't think it's manna from heaven like some make it out to be. In its own way, it is just as tough.
My dream job in aviation has always been flying for a corporate jet operation, or one of the fractionals like NetJets or similar (I know, silly me). As for this area of the industry, Stateside is where it's at. But in the end, I never went ahead and did anything about it. Even if the FAA licensing system is a walk in the park, it don't mean squat if you don't have a green card - and I don't.
As it turns out, I've just recently been offered a position with a major airline, so I guess it's a moot point. Although I'd still take a Gulfstream anyday over Toulouse or Seattle's finest products - but that's just me; I've never been motivated by the mainstream ideal of what constitutes success in aviation.
However, it's all relative. So what if there are more employment opportunities in the US than here? It pretty much cancels itself out when you account for the fact that there are so many more pilots over there as well. No doubt there are some great opportunities in the US for those who are in the right place at the right time, but I don't think it's manna from heaven like some make it out to be. In its own way, it is just as tough.
My dream job in aviation has always been flying for a corporate jet operation, or one of the fractionals like NetJets or similar (I know, silly me). As for this area of the industry, Stateside is where it's at. But in the end, I never went ahead and did anything about it. Even if the FAA licensing system is a walk in the park, it don't mean squat if you don't have a green card - and I don't.
As it turns out, I've just recently been offered a position with a major airline, so I guess it's a moot point. Although I'd still take a Gulfstream anyday over Toulouse or Seattle's finest products - but that's just me; I've never been motivated by the mainstream ideal of what constitutes success in aviation.
GA
It's about time some of the experienced guys let it be known the way it is. GA has always been the bottom of the barrel when compared to the other half of aviation. Unfortunately its got even worse. There is a serious over supply of pilots and unfortunately a lot of flying schools are peddling their wares even at high school level. The result being young dreamers taking to the skies with little idea of whats ahead of them.
It's only after a lot of money has been spent that they realise what the situation is. Instrument Ratings handed out like confetti with Instructor Ratings a close second. If one looked at the outlay in strictly cash terms your looking at $70K at least. At the end of which you are a qualified pilot with little or no experience and no other qualification to fall back on during the years of doing the "Hard Yards". Even after doing the hard yards it's Russian Roulette whether you make the airlines. So anybody entering this industry remember competition is intense and the risk of not making it high.
It's only after a lot of money has been spent that they realise what the situation is. Instrument Ratings handed out like confetti with Instructor Ratings a close second. If one looked at the outlay in strictly cash terms your looking at $70K at least. At the end of which you are a qualified pilot with little or no experience and no other qualification to fall back on during the years of doing the "Hard Yards". Even after doing the hard yards it's Russian Roulette whether you make the airlines. So anybody entering this industry remember competition is intense and the risk of not making it high.
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HI,
I am Kanak and i am from India.
I completed my schoolong in science stream and now i am 18 yrs old..
I really love flying and its my passion.
There has been a lot of rumour that the situation is too good for pilots in India.
I was planning to go to aussie for my flight training at Basair,sydney..
and come back and convert my license..which i heard is a time consuming and stupid thing...
Is it better for me to do the training now or do it after graduation..
Also i heard tht there r two ways to get indian cpl by doing flight training abroad..
1. do the cpl theory ,,3 papers here and then go abroad and do the enough flying..
2..go abroad do the training...comeback ..do the conversion which will take more than 6 months...
I really dont know what the best is for me to do now...
Can anyone help me.
Regards
Kanak
I am Kanak and i am from India.
I completed my schoolong in science stream and now i am 18 yrs old..
I really love flying and its my passion.
There has been a lot of rumour that the situation is too good for pilots in India.
I was planning to go to aussie for my flight training at Basair,sydney..
and come back and convert my license..which i heard is a time consuming and stupid thing...
Is it better for me to do the training now or do it after graduation..
Also i heard tht there r two ways to get indian cpl by doing flight training abroad..
1. do the cpl theory ,,3 papers here and then go abroad and do the enough flying..
2..go abroad do the training...comeback ..do the conversion which will take more than 6 months...
I really dont know what the best is for me to do now...
Can anyone help me.
Regards
Kanak
Bunglerat,
I follow your line of thought re: Flying Corporate, i'm trying to head that way. While there are alot more guys looking over here its not all bad. The regionals manage to suck up alot of the wannabes so the Night Freight jobs and miscellaneous "Earn your stripes" gigs are there. I'm doing much better over here, but then of course i know it will be hard to get back now.
Good luck with the new gig, and i think if your happ yin Aviation then you've got more than half of everyone else beat! I listen to the UPS unions guys bleating about lack of enough bottled waters on international flights and heck we load our own freight!
I follow your line of thought re: Flying Corporate, i'm trying to head that way. While there are alot more guys looking over here its not all bad. The regionals manage to suck up alot of the wannabes so the Night Freight jobs and miscellaneous "Earn your stripes" gigs are there. I'm doing much better over here, but then of course i know it will be hard to get back now.
Good luck with the new gig, and i think if your happ yin Aviation then you've got more than half of everyone else beat! I listen to the UPS unions guys bleating about lack of enough bottled waters on international flights and heck we load our own freight!
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JAA WA
Gyro Drifter , are you refering to the JAA school in Perth ?
if so there guys have a good chance of going straight into the RH seat for a airline in UK/Europe !
as many companys are takings people straight out of intergrated courses for F/O positions in 737/A320/Dash8/ATR 42 etc
if so there guys have a good chance of going straight into the RH seat for a airline in UK/Europe !
as many companys are takings people straight out of intergrated courses for F/O positions in 737/A320/Dash8/ATR 42 etc
Seasonally Adjusted
Gyro, does this 'mob' have a big sign on the road into Jandakot Airport with a 744 taking off and some blurb about your career going places?
Says it all really.
Says it all really.
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Originally Posted by DUXNUTZ
and heck we load our own freight!
Doesn't sound so bad. Flying night freight is my dream job at the moment! I just wish there were more companies over here......
Doesn't sound so bad. Flying night freight is my dream job at the moment! I just wish there were more companies over here......
And to top it all off no one in the back complaining.
"Doesn't sound so bad. Flying night freight is my dream job at the moment!"
Yeah well, after your first week of off-loading 2-3000 kgs off one airplane in one hit you may re-consider!
Still the plane is a multi-turbine thats non-pressurised/slow as, so at least the flying is easy.
Yeah well, after your first week of off-loading 2-3000 kgs off one airplane in one hit you may re-consider!
Still the plane is a multi-turbine thats non-pressurised/slow as, so at least the flying is easy.
