500 Hrs Multi PIC..????????

[maxgrad]

haughtney1...agree, rules and regs should always be held to account. If they are not valid or have been outdated. In my post I said I had no idea why the req for 500 was there. Would be very interesting to get the answer to that one. Any one know how?

(should have said in original post... The answer is all relative.)

Do pilots who wish to fly in Aust fight this rule? Would it help if they did? Would the bean counters come up with something even more difficult? What time is the party?

[pakeha-boy]

BFB....ya beauuuuty mate...to be honest....my flying and writing skills are up and down like a whores drawers on a saturday night,.........................so I need both to survive....remember John Clarke...aka Fred Dagg....good-mate!!!...puha and pakeha

[flap35]

Just goes to show that the only combination worse than alcohol and flying is australians and flying.

[Br.Muzzy]

Just look at the 500 hour requirement as being the same "hoop" as those ridiculous subjects the Poms want you to pass.
Im with Tinpis on this one, It's frightening to watch some of the overconfidence a few of these "hotshot" FO's have.

Just goes to show that the only combination worse than alcohol and flying is australians and flying.

In future Flap 35, save yourself some typing and abbreviate your post to.... NTA... Nothing To Add.

bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Dehavillanddriver]

The 500 hrs multi PIC is a requirement under CAO 82.3 which covers low capacity operations.

CAO 82.5 which covers high capacity operations has no such restriction.

The requriement (and I assume that the said Australian B737 operator is Virgin) was put in place by the recently ex Chief Pilot.

Interestingly enough the said ex chief pilot, had Ansett had that restriction in place when he joined, would not have qualified.

[tinpis]

Edited: whats the point?

[justvisual]

Hey Guys, My dusty old CAO's say in CAO 82.3 App 4:

Qualifications of pilot in command for RPT ops in low and high capacity aircraft.

For RPT operations in aeroplanes exceeding 5700kg, To be the Captain you will need to have an Australian ATPL, 2000hrs total, 500hrs pic on multi engine aeroplanes under the IFR, 50hrs on type and 100hrs night.
Co-Pilots need only a Co-Pilot type rating and Co-Pilot Instrument rating.

My CAO's are old but I think thems the rules.........

[PLovett]

As some have pointed out it is a requirement under CAO 82.3.

The more appropriate question is why should there be this archaic stupid requirement in Australia?

I suggest it is there because of the level of corporate knowledge by our supposedly better informed regulators.

The rest of the world gets by quite well without such pieces of idiocy. It is time CASA were told we are no longer operating DC 3s on RPT.

[Cessna Capt]

Is the 500hr ME PIC requirement something only found in Australia or do other governing authorities overseas have similar requirements?

If these requirements do not exist overseas how does one FO get an upgrade if their countries don't have the opporunity to gain experience on light twins. Does it come down to having an ATPL and time of type as FO? I guess this example also applies to cadets with major international airlines such as SQ CX and EK whos countries have bascially no GA industry.

thanks

CC

[bushy]

And general aviation would be much better off, and have a much lower accident rate, if we did not have a lot of airline wannabes who are just here to get 500 twin hours.
Salaries and safety would be much better if we had smaller nunmers of positive people, doing what they want to do.

But our whole aviation system is biassed to favour the "two airlines", and GA is only considered to be a training ground for airline pilots. It is not!!!!

I believe the shonkiest operators in Australi are the city based flying schools that are ripping off the students,.

[nomorecatering]

So what happens when all the Chieftains, Navajos, 402's 404's C310's, Barons, are gone, replaced by the C208 single engine turbine. the old piston twins wont be around for much longer.

[Deaf]

Start Homebuilding

http://flight.cz/cricri/english/cri-...res-secchi.php

or for jet time

http://www.amtjets.com/gallery_real_plain.html

[CAR256]

Cri-cri

No good... Must have been tried.

Our ever sharp regulators have said it don't count as a twin!!!??

Anyone know if centre-line thrust counts?

How many engine failures do the gods think you should average in 500 flying hours in a twin??? (my point being, c-208 would be as quick, heavy, with similar systems to a twin, be it only one...)

[F/O Bloggs]

757,
Mate- Get over it. It is their train set and they get to set the rules. It is all about protectionism, and nothing to do with ones capability for the job. It is no different from an F/A 18 pilot who does not have two crew time or a military instructor on Hawks with no twin time. It does not mean that the individuals concerned are no good for the job.
Hey even I have heaps of jet time in Europe and Mother England, but because I don't have a JAR licence I can't get a job over your way. No use whinging about it, thats life.
Enjoy the impending winter,

Cheerio

Bloggs.

[Herc Jerk]

some perspective...

If the regulators don't mandate a certain minimum requirements the bean counters in some airlines will have an open slather to drive them down as low as possible. This gives them a larger pool of pilots to choose from, which allows them to PAY US LESS.

Does anyone else see this gist of this thread as another example of us selling each other out for short term personal gain?

If you need more multi command for a job, then go out and get it. And while you're at it, do the guys in the trenches a favour and DON'T fly for beer. YAP.

In many ways LCCs can't be compared with CX/QF/EK et al. Regulatory authorities allow for this.

HJ

[DeltaT]

Well...

Suggest you get a copy of said airlines Ops manual and read it carefully. Some of them will state that the 500hrs multi PIC time can be waived at the discretion of the Ops Manager.
A nice little clause to help them out in times of need, but of course they won't tell you that!!

[jarjar]

Story goes...I applied to said 737 operator, as an F/O with 2000hrs of heavy jet 757/767 multi-crew experience behind me, only to be told I dont have 500hrs multi-PIC therefore I dont meet the minimum requirements

I believe that this was the initial topic. As someone has mentioned before this is said operators requirement ,not regulatory requirement. I believe alot of people are missing the point, High capacity operators do not need aircrew with 500 pic multi, the definition of high capacity is greater than 38 seats or 4200 kg payload. Lets say your flying from a to b, metro, dash 8(100-200) etc , would you fly in this aircraft if you found out that the captain had 200 multi pic and the new f/o had 50 multi total.

With the training( or lack there of) that some of the low capacity operators around australia give their crews the only thing that helps prevent the pilots hanging off the tail of the plane is that they may have a reasonable level of multi engine experience before they start the job.

Another thing to note, is that unless the rules have changed, in charter category all a pilot needs to command a multi pilot aircraft above 5700kg is an ATPL.(pls correct me if im wrong).

[757manipulator]

SWH....I guess then the B200 I flew had a bit more poke that yours did...or more to the point, the internal seal failure caused the engine to slow to idle, and allowed me to fly away without any VMCA or obstacle clearance issues.

Bloggs yep..and your point?

Im still trying to figure out how 500hrs in a puddle jumper is gonna help me fly a 737 any better?....no ones even been able to convince me yet.

[Boston]

757manipulator.. can you give us a bit more info?

Total Time, Total PIC?? Any Multi-PIC?

[swh]

757manipulator,

Having an engine ticking over at flight idle is not an engine failure, if you consider that losing an engine, I lost both engines every flight. With a real engine failure on the B200 at high weight, high temps, it is not easy, considering autofeather is an optional.

I have flown both -41 and -42 B200s, not aware of any B200 with any more "poke" than the -42, the aircraft also had the 4 blade props and other performance STCs.

Im still trying to figure out how 500hrs in a puddle jumper is gonna help me fly a 737 any better?....no ones even been able to convince me yet.

No one has been able to convince me that a person with 200 hours and 14 JAR subject passes & MCC is more qualified to be an FO on a large jet compared to a person with an ICAO ATPL and several thousand hours.

JAR rules say you must have your 14 subjects and MCC or a JAR ATPL (not considering the validation case).

No one has been able to convince me that making people do 14 subjects if you already have a ICAO ATPL (with even say 10000 hrs FO time on 767's) is anything more than protecting their industry, and a barrier to entry for more experienced pilots.


jarjar

in charter category all a pilot needs to command a multi pilot aircraft above 5700kg is an ATPL.(pls correct me if im wrong).

Your wrong, you can fly a metro, C550 etc single pilot in charter with a CPL.