QF S/O salary??
Seems like a good system!
The lifestylers can sit in the back and count their money to retirement. (Just don't stuff up..or let someone else stuff up on your shift)
This leaves the FO positions open for those who like money, but would prefer to fly instead.
Something for everyone.
The lifestylers can sit in the back and count their money to retirement. (Just don't stuff up..or let someone else stuff up on your shift)
This leaves the FO positions open for those who like money, but would prefer to fly instead.
Something for everyone.
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Keg,
Just in case any of your current crop of ants don't say it,
THANK YOU for giving up your time to be an AAFC/AIRTC officer.
I'm proud I was an AIRTC CUO some years ago; our flight commander was a Classic captain and his off-sider was a F/E; we all thought they were gods. My old man did time as an AIRTC staff officer after his RAAF days so I grew up knowing how much time these people give up.
Some of my flight-mates went into aviation, flying Hornets, Hercs and various commercial types. Others have followed other paths.
For several reasons, I didn't follow 'The Path' and it's my only big regret. I hope you manage to inspire the youngsters in your care. Even if they don't go into aviation, they will look back on their camps with good memories and have skills they will have developed in the AAFC.
Good on you, mate, and I hope the eye gets better.
(Gets off soapbox, packs up bat and ball, goes home... )
Cheers
TD67
ps re the original question, Keg's signature may be roughly translated as 'it's beer o'clock'.
Just in case any of your current crop of ants don't say it,
THANK YOU for giving up your time to be an AAFC/AIRTC officer.
I'm proud I was an AIRTC CUO some years ago; our flight commander was a Classic captain and his off-sider was a F/E; we all thought they were gods. My old man did time as an AIRTC staff officer after his RAAF days so I grew up knowing how much time these people give up.
Some of my flight-mates went into aviation, flying Hornets, Hercs and various commercial types. Others have followed other paths.
For several reasons, I didn't follow 'The Path' and it's my only big regret. I hope you manage to inspire the youngsters in your care. Even if they don't go into aviation, they will look back on their camps with good memories and have skills they will have developed in the AAFC.
Good on you, mate, and I hope the eye gets better.
(Gets off soapbox, packs up bat and ball, goes home... )
Cheers
TD67
ps re the original question, Keg's signature may be roughly translated as 'it's beer o'clock'.
Join Date: May 2004
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Hey , Zapatas
Basically these guys and girls get paid these amounts because of the RESPONSIBILITY that they carry, mate. they are third in command (not fourth, as some of the "flight directors" would like to think) of an aircraft carrying 400 - odd people for over 12 hours half way around the world, unlike your captain pal who does a 40 minute sector at 4 o'clock in the afternoon followed by a GPS approach to a generally sea level airport speaking to an ATC that speaks english as his first language.. Many times a QF aircraft has been saved - YES - saved from disaster from one of these "overpaid"? s/o's reminding a tired, old captain (or F/O ) that he's about to F--K up. But if you were "in the know" you'd know that already wouldn't you ??? By the way, I am not a QF s/o but admire them greatly.
please don't drag them or their conditions down..perhaps we should all be earning $160 K a year?
Basically these guys and girls get paid these amounts because of the RESPONSIBILITY that they carry, mate. they are third in command (not fourth, as some of the "flight directors" would like to think) of an aircraft carrying 400 - odd people for over 12 hours half way around the world, unlike your captain pal who does a 40 minute sector at 4 o'clock in the afternoon followed by a GPS approach to a generally sea level airport speaking to an ATC that speaks english as his first language.. Many times a QF aircraft has been saved - YES - saved from disaster from one of these "overpaid"? s/o's reminding a tired, old captain (or F/O ) that he's about to F--K up. But if you were "in the know" you'd know that already wouldn't you ??? By the way, I am not a QF s/o but admire them greatly.
please don't drag them or their conditions down..perhaps we should all be earning $160 K a year?
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Stiffwing,
“Basically these guys and girls get paid these amounts because of the RESPONSIBILITY that they carry, mate. they are third in command”
Lets not delude ourselves. These people get paid these salaries because of the industrial baggage that has accumulated over the past 50 years at incumbent carriers such as Qantas.
Do you really think it makes economic sense to shovel 160000 grand at someone to sit and watch the skipper in case he stuffs up?
Based on levels of responsibility, don’t you think an A320 captain at Jetstar should therefore be paid more than the SO counting waves from the jump seat.
“unlike your captain pal who does a 40 minute sector at 4 o'clock in the afternoon followed by a GPS approach to a generally sea level airport speaking to an ATC that speaks english as his first language”
Maybe next time I operate into Lombok or Manado I should request an SO to keep an eye on things. But hey, its no where near as tricky as LAX is it.
“Basically these guys and girls get paid these amounts because of the RESPONSIBILITY that they carry, mate. they are third in command”
Lets not delude ourselves. These people get paid these salaries because of the industrial baggage that has accumulated over the past 50 years at incumbent carriers such as Qantas.
Do you really think it makes economic sense to shovel 160000 grand at someone to sit and watch the skipper in case he stuffs up?
Based on levels of responsibility, don’t you think an A320 captain at Jetstar should therefore be paid more than the SO counting waves from the jump seat.
“unlike your captain pal who does a 40 minute sector at 4 o'clock in the afternoon followed by a GPS approach to a generally sea level airport speaking to an ATC that speaks english as his first language”
Maybe next time I operate into Lombok or Manado I should request an SO to keep an eye on things. But hey, its no where near as tricky as LAX is it.
Zapatas Blood,
Absolutely! But it's not a matter of paying the SO less, but rather the Jetstar captain should be paid more. They were the ones who accepted those crappy conditions, and the rot started way back in the Impulse days when they were paid a pittance to fly a B1900.
Just because the Jetstar pilot group accepted their sub-standard wages, doesn't mean it's OK to hang sh1t on those who value their skills a little more highly.
TL
Based on levels of responsibility, don’t you think an A320 captain at Jetstar should therefore be paid more than the SO counting waves from the jump seat.
Just because the Jetstar pilot group accepted their sub-standard wages, doesn't mean it's OK to hang sh1t on those who value their skills a little more highly.
TL
Join Date: Jun 2001
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So now after they have enviegled(spelling?) their way into their current position, Jetstar pilots are worth more than Qantas pilots?
This is, of course after they have passed the same Interview, check, training and experience requirements?
I do not agree with the QF policy of using the S/O position as a training role for cadets, I am sure most pax would be horrified at the thought of a 19year old with 200 hours playing co-pilot to the F/O over Afghanistan.
However, most S/O's actually have some experience prior to joining Qantas. This includes Military, Other Airlines, regional carriers and GA. I am sure they would not choose to go into the back seat by preference but that is the path.
Nevertheless, Airline pilots pay is based on 3 criteria:
1. The Capacity of the airline to pay
2. The Responsibility encumbant with the position
3. The value placed on that position by the airline and its pilot group.
Quite simply, using these criteria the Qantas group content in paying s/o's the current rate.
Finally, in terms of responsibility. Apart from T/O and LDG, an s/o is in the seat for the rest of the flight. This includes flight over some of the most inhospitable terrain in the world, with foreign ATC, safety heights of over FL180 for extended periodsetc etc., most often at times when most domestic pilots are tucked up nicely in bed.
If taken seriously, the role carries enourmous responsibilty.
This is, of course after they have passed the same Interview, check, training and experience requirements?
I do not agree with the QF policy of using the S/O position as a training role for cadets, I am sure most pax would be horrified at the thought of a 19year old with 200 hours playing co-pilot to the F/O over Afghanistan.
However, most S/O's actually have some experience prior to joining Qantas. This includes Military, Other Airlines, regional carriers and GA. I am sure they would not choose to go into the back seat by preference but that is the path.
Nevertheless, Airline pilots pay is based on 3 criteria:
1. The Capacity of the airline to pay
2. The Responsibility encumbant with the position
3. The value placed on that position by the airline and its pilot group.
Quite simply, using these criteria the Qantas group content in paying s/o's the current rate.
Finally, in terms of responsibility. Apart from T/O and LDG, an s/o is in the seat for the rest of the flight. This includes flight over some of the most inhospitable terrain in the world, with foreign ATC, safety heights of over FL180 for extended periodsetc etc., most often at times when most domestic pilots are tucked up nicely in bed.
If taken seriously, the role carries enourmous responsibilty.
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Tranistion Layer
Spot on. Last thing this Oz aviation needs is an erosion in Mainline salary. Whist it remains high we all have a benchmark, something to aim for. Hell, pay the S/O's 200K a year, why on earth would any self respecting pilot want to see another wages come down? We're all highly skilled pro's and it needs to be reflected in our salaries......lets concentrate on directing the conditions upwards shall we
Just because the Jetstar pilot group accepted their sub-standard wages, doesn't mean it's OK to hang sh1t on those who value their skills a little more highly.
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Is it not a TEAM crew affair ?, is it not that we (and others) have been here a thousand times before and having 3-4 heads up front decreases significantly the overall fatigue and by implication teh Risk ?, irrespective of who does what and who is at the sharp end, a TEAM always works better than just one or two.
If S/O's have a place on long haul , then there is a reason for it, what they earn, or more correctly gross, is neither here or there to me personally, I just want them to do a good job, along with the FO and Capt, and it seems so far, it appears to be working fine.
This talk about "paid too much" is not coming from the S/O's, nor is it coming from the rest of the crews, thats for sure.
Agreed Well said Longjohn.
PS: I'd still flog around Euroland in a 37 for peanuts to get Jet time if I could, but thats another story.
If S/O's have a place on long haul , then there is a reason for it, what they earn, or more correctly gross, is neither here or there to me personally, I just want them to do a good job, along with the FO and Capt, and it seems so far, it appears to be working fine.
This talk about "paid too much" is not coming from the S/O's, nor is it coming from the rest of the crews, thats for sure.
Agreed Well said Longjohn.
PS: I'd still flog around Euroland in a 37 for peanuts to get Jet time if I could, but thats another story.
It dosen't seem right the trainers and checks get less