QF S/O salary??
Sprucegoose
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Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
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Jepps filed..........................check
Galley Hags all seated.......check
ATIS received.....................check
Checklist read....................check
No what do I have to do?
Oh yes read the paper and drink coffee.
And for this I get a $160,000 a year........Oh Pleeeeeeease give me a job. I would be happy to be a 20 year S/O if thats what it takes.
Cheers, HH.
And Keg, indeed it is time to drink!!
Galley Hags all seated.......check
ATIS received.....................check
Checklist read....................check
No what do I have to do?
Oh yes read the paper and drink coffee.
And for this I get a $160,000 a year........Oh Pleeeeeeease give me a job. I would be happy to be a 20 year S/O if thats what it takes.
Cheers, HH.
And Keg, indeed it is time to drink!!
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11 years and still not a capt. Wow.
Hey don't begrudge these young bucks their $160K in the hand. If someone can convince their boss to pay $240K or whatever, gross, then why shouldn't they take it? Mad if ya don't.
But on the assumption it is actually $160K gross, so what, it's still pretty good coin for sitting on your @rse doing nothing for half the flight and sleeping in the cot the rest of the time.
The worst part is having to listen to the old fart ex-cadet captain talking ****e. On the trips where you fly with a real pilot as captain, life is good and the dough is good.
Until you get to fatty's (the cheapest place the PlateClearers are happy to "feast") and have to listen to the inevitable whinging about "But I only ate TWO prawns, I'm not paying for that..."
Honestly, why we put so much effort into getting The Help to come out on the town is beyond me sometimes....
At times the whining is so bad it's like you're back on the jet.
It'd be different if they were all young glammas and there was a point to it all!!
Maybe it's best that they do slam/click the door and live off a single packet of Maggi noodles for 72 hours. At least there's no crying and whinging that way. But the next time I see one of them shame-facedly carpet-grazing on the trays in the hallway when I stagger in, I'm writing them up. It's un-becoming.
I especially like the comment about professional pilots not being in it for the money... Thanks 56P!!! Of course that's the type being attracted, they're ALL attracted... for the dough!! What did you think??? That someone would actually like to sit back there watching his hand-flying skills vanish before his eyes and listening to Captain Grump E. Caydet-Knobster tearing strips off Hostie Drag N. Boiler for it's crap attitude???
No.
That's why the big dough. Hopefully, this allows Qwantas to then choose the best (snicker) pilots of the lot and hire them. No one actually enjoys working as a Qwantas pilot (except the cadet captains who live in their own fantasyland where everything is blissful and everyone loves them and listens to their tales of datalink heroics) and why would they?
Hey don't begrudge these young bucks their $160K in the hand. If someone can convince their boss to pay $240K or whatever, gross, then why shouldn't they take it? Mad if ya don't.
But on the assumption it is actually $160K gross, so what, it's still pretty good coin for sitting on your @rse doing nothing for half the flight and sleeping in the cot the rest of the time.
The worst part is having to listen to the old fart ex-cadet captain talking ****e. On the trips where you fly with a real pilot as captain, life is good and the dough is good.
Until you get to fatty's (the cheapest place the PlateClearers are happy to "feast") and have to listen to the inevitable whinging about "But I only ate TWO prawns, I'm not paying for that..."
Honestly, why we put so much effort into getting The Help to come out on the town is beyond me sometimes....
At times the whining is so bad it's like you're back on the jet.It'd be different if they were all young glammas and there was a point to it all!!
Maybe it's best that they do slam/click the door and live off a single packet of Maggi noodles for 72 hours. At least there's no crying and whinging that way. But the next time I see one of them shame-facedly carpet-grazing on the trays in the hallway when I stagger in, I'm writing them up. It's un-becoming.
I especially like the comment about professional pilots not being in it for the money... Thanks 56P!!! Of course that's the type being attracted, they're ALL attracted... for the dough!! What did you think??? That someone would actually like to sit back there watching his hand-flying skills vanish before his eyes and listening to Captain Grump E. Caydet-Knobster tearing strips off Hostie Drag N. Boiler for it's crap attitude???
No.
That's why the big dough. Hopefully, this allows Qwantas to then choose the best (snicker) pilots of the lot and hire them. No one actually enjoys working as a Qwantas pilot (except the cadet captains who live in their own fantasyland where everything is blissful and everyone loves them and listens to their tales of datalink heroics) and why would they?
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Oh I love these sorts of threads.
Let's start with a few facts.
No line Qantas pilot gets paid a salary. They get paid at an hourly rate like any other award worker. So when you hear that a SO grossed 160K ;then to do that he must have flown X amount of hours at that hourly rate plus Y amount of over-time at that hourly rate. The SO Hourly rate is based on appropriately negotiated relativities to other ranks and aircraft types
Pilot pay has already been featured heavily on other threads here, with the general thrust that someone who invests as heavily as pilots do in their own careers, should be remunerated properly for it. So when you say that on one hand then criticise what SO's are paid with the other hand, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Qantas SO's get paid less than the FO's and extra Captains are paid in a lot of other companies for doing the same job. Qantas SAVES a lot by employing SO's at their current rate.
Will the CC crew who insist on sticking their oar in on this matter please desist. It has nothing to do with you and you leave yourself open to comparisons that are largely odious and meaningless. The experience and qualifications needed to hold either job are totally different. We happen to inhabit the same workspace, with the shared goal of a safe and efficient operation.... but the jobs are TOTALLY different.
Let's start with a few facts.
No line Qantas pilot gets paid a salary. They get paid at an hourly rate like any other award worker. So when you hear that a SO grossed 160K ;then to do that he must have flown X amount of hours at that hourly rate plus Y amount of over-time at that hourly rate. The SO Hourly rate is based on appropriately negotiated relativities to other ranks and aircraft types
Pilot pay has already been featured heavily on other threads here, with the general thrust that someone who invests as heavily as pilots do in their own careers, should be remunerated properly for it. So when you say that on one hand then criticise what SO's are paid with the other hand, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Qantas SO's get paid less than the FO's and extra Captains are paid in a lot of other companies for doing the same job. Qantas SAVES a lot by employing SO's at their current rate.
Will the CC crew who insist on sticking their oar in on this matter please desist. It has nothing to do with you and you leave yourself open to comparisons that are largely odious and meaningless. The experience and qualifications needed to hold either job are totally different. We happen to inhabit the same workspace, with the shared goal of a safe and efficient operation.... but the jobs are TOTALLY different.
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Hi The_Cutest_of_Bog,
I always thought it was more to do with the responsibility for other peoples' hides... the punters and the plate-collectors want someone who can do the job not some rock-ape who hung on nice and tight when they shook the tree.
Including the Chief Ham-Sambo Maker.......???
Well said.
who invests as heavily as pilots do in their own careers, should be remunerated properly for it
SO Hourly rate is based on appropriately negotiated relativities to other ranks
Will the CC crew who insist on sticking their oar in on this matter please desist.
Nunc est bibendum
Kegs Latin title means "I wish I had been in the RAAF instead of being a try-hard ATC officer"
Secondly, I do wish I'd been able to get into the RAAF. Alas I didn't and thus my seniorority number in QF is 1000 numbers higher than it would have been had I done so. Real shame that one! However, it's a bit rude to throw stones at 'try-hard ATC (sic) officers' everywhere because I didn't get into the RAAF and assume that because I didn't, that automatically makes AAFC officers 'try hards'. Even had I gotten into the RAAF, I'd still be wearing my AAFC rank at times as well. (PS: I'll tell the IR manager for ABC Australia, a News Ltd exec, the chief of the Victorian Ambulance, the managing director of a North QLD aviation company, a bunch of RAAF senior officers (WGCDR and SQNLDRs) that you think they're 'try hards' for wearing the white braid!
)Thirdly, shame that someone would throw stones at an organisation who's aim is to promote the development of Australia's youth in a military orientated and aviation focused way. Given the discussions that occur from time to time here on PPRUNE about the 'youth of today', I would have hoped that those of us who strive to develop that youth and turn them into professional and contributing members of society (and the ADF) would be supported rather than have an anonymous pot shot thrown at us.
Finally, I'm proud of my service in the AAFC. It costs me in terms of both precious time at home with my family and dollars but I do it because I get a kick out of turning out cadets that go on to greater things. I've got former cadets who are Hornet drivers, doctors, lawyers, soldiers, airmen- one was airman of the year this year in the RAAF- sailors, human rights workers, etc, etc. Most importantly though, I've developed leaders who have gone on to develop other leaders in their chosen fields. It's a legacy and contribution to society that I'm emminently comfortable with.
So take your best shot at me if you reckon you've got me pegged but don't dare think that you're even close to having what it takes to hang crap on the Australian Air Force Cadets.
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Well said Keg!
For those of you who may not know him, he's a great bloke to have as part of the crew and a thoroughly nice person as well!
Back on the subject, Borg's post sums up how the pay system works. Yes 744 SOs are well payed but to gross the figures quoted, you would have to be in the top few senior SOs and then work the system pretty hard.
BTW about 85% of 744 SOs have been in QF for 5yrs or less. The 12 year+ SOs (a small minority) are mostly those who have not managed to pass the FO promotion or are "life stylers".
For those of you who may not know him, he's a great bloke to have as part of the crew and a thoroughly nice person as well!
Back on the subject, Borg's post sums up how the pay system works. Yes 744 SOs are well payed but to gross the figures quoted, you would have to be in the top few senior SOs and then work the system pretty hard.
BTW about 85% of 744 SOs have been in QF for 5yrs or less. The 12 year+ SOs (a small minority) are mostly those who have not managed to pass the FO promotion or are "life stylers".
Last edited by Offchocks; 9th Jul 2005 at 02:14.
idiot
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Not knocking the ATC at all. It is a fine organisation
But Keg, recognise this.
You are not a graduate of RAAFCol or ADFA.
You have not served o/s on operations.
You have not commanded airman / troops or sailors at any level either
Yet you carry on name dropping and talking about 'Angus Houstons leadership' as if being an AIRTC officer qualifies you to do so.
I know this because I had the misfortune to be sitting in your CRM class last week, watching you carrying on like a pork chop.
Your enthusiasm and capacity to volunteer your time is commendable - just know your place.
BTW the correct spelling is 'seniority'. There is no second 'o' in the word.
I think thats how Kaptin M identified your other PPRune persona 'Sydneyman' as well.
But Keg, recognise this.
You are not a graduate of RAAFCol or ADFA.
You have not served o/s on operations.
You have not commanded airman / troops or sailors at any level either
Yet you carry on name dropping and talking about 'Angus Houstons leadership' as if being an AIRTC officer qualifies you to do so.
I know this because I had the misfortune to be sitting in your CRM class last week, watching you carrying on like a pork chop.
Your enthusiasm and capacity to volunteer your time is commendable - just know your place.
BTW the correct spelling is 'seniority'. There is no second 'o' in the word.
I think thats how Kaptin M identified your other PPRune persona 'Sydneyman' as well.
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WELL ALL YOU GUYS WHO THINK THEY ARE IN QANTAS OR KNOW THE PAY FIGURES , REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT, AND PROB ARENT GETTING PAID WELL. ITS OK TO BE JEALOUS. ITS PRETTY FUNNY HEY. MAYBE U SHOULD TRY ANOTHER AIRLINE.
scrubbed , you must be a GA pilot hey. well hmmm u prob wont make it will. most of you s wont ..... oh well
scrubbed , you must be a GA pilot hey. well hmmm u prob wont make it will. most of you s wont ..... oh well
Nunc est bibendum
OK Callgula, I'll stick my hand up. I have not graduated RAAFCOL or ADFA and nor have I served o/s on operations- and nor have I ever alluded to that. I have not 'commanded' airmen/troops/sailors in the formal sense. I have however had the pleasure of working for ADF members at various times and having had them work for me on a bunch of occasions too. That includes senior officers and airmen alike. I'm proud to call a lot of these officers, Senior NCOs and other ranks my friends.
I've observed ACM Houston's leadership from a AAFC perspective since he took up that role. I've seen first hand the way he has supported the AAFC; I've read about the initiatives that he's put forward in Air Force (and by default the AAFC); and I've had staff attend some of the leadership exchanges that have been instigated during his time as the CAF. I've seen him handle senate committee's on issues to do with the AAFC and wear the rap for something that he shouldn't have had to. So, do I 'name drop'? According to you, yes. From my perspective, I'm an admirer of the CDFs work and a supporter of what he achieved in the RAAF (although if I were a serving RAAF member then perhaps I would know even more and be a more strident supporter) and hope he goes on to bigger and better things for both the ADF and the ADFC as CDF. It isn't about whether or not I'm 'qualified' to do so in the minds of you or anyone else, I passed on an opinion based on what I know of the man, his actions and his results. I passed an opinion on the former CDF as well. But I do see where you are coming from. Another person who believes that 'people' should 'know their place'. Be seen and not heard is another version, not have an opinion is another.
Of course though, your entire stance is obvious from your statement about knowing my place. How could an AAFC officer possibly be able to comment on other matters- especially those of leadership and management. You may undervalue my experiences but lots of other people don't. Believe me, I'm all too well aware of what some think of my various ventures in this world.
Didn't like CRM? Did you happen to write anything on the feedback form or do you just snipe anonymously from the sidelines? I don't recall any comments about 'pork chop' on the forms at all. Perhaps you should have put that in. More than happy if you want to submit one now too. Let me know your mailbox number at work and I'll be sure to drop one in for you to fill out.
As for other PPRUNE handles, I have no need and I'm coward. If I've got something to say, I'll say it as 'Keg'. Funnily enough, despite being so well known, I've not yet had anyone in QF have the guts to say something adverse about my posts to my face. Of course, there are a bunch that talk behind my back and take anonymous pot shots on PPRUNE but I'm used to that cowardice after a decade in QF and six years on PPRUNE. Funnily enough that cowardice is displayed equally by former military 'warriors' who have graduated RAAFCol and ADFA. Perhaps they should've concentrated more on the values of the ADF when they were in!
Offchocks, thanks for the kind words. There is just no pleasing those like calligula. They continually look for ways of dragging others down. Sad to take a 'cup is half full' look all the time.
PS: Calligula, my humble apologies for my mis-spelling of 'seniority'. See what happens when you don't get the opportunity to graduate RAAFCol or ADFA!
PPS: I guess that beer in the O's mess is out of the question- especially considering that you obviously aren't PAF anymore. Shame, it would've been nice to be able to do more than just scoff my meal down and get back to instructing staff. I bet you didn't even know I was 'Keg' until I mentioned my eyes!
I've observed ACM Houston's leadership from a AAFC perspective since he took up that role. I've seen first hand the way he has supported the AAFC; I've read about the initiatives that he's put forward in Air Force (and by default the AAFC); and I've had staff attend some of the leadership exchanges that have been instigated during his time as the CAF. I've seen him handle senate committee's on issues to do with the AAFC and wear the rap for something that he shouldn't have had to. So, do I 'name drop'? According to you, yes. From my perspective, I'm an admirer of the CDFs work and a supporter of what he achieved in the RAAF (although if I were a serving RAAF member then perhaps I would know even more and be a more strident supporter) and hope he goes on to bigger and better things for both the ADF and the ADFC as CDF. It isn't about whether or not I'm 'qualified' to do so in the minds of you or anyone else, I passed on an opinion based on what I know of the man, his actions and his results. I passed an opinion on the former CDF as well. But I do see where you are coming from. Another person who believes that 'people' should 'know their place'. Be seen and not heard is another version, not have an opinion is another.
Of course though, your entire stance is obvious from your statement about knowing my place. How could an AAFC officer possibly be able to comment on other matters- especially those of leadership and management. You may undervalue my experiences but lots of other people don't. Believe me, I'm all too well aware of what some think of my various ventures in this world.
Didn't like CRM? Did you happen to write anything on the feedback form or do you just snipe anonymously from the sidelines? I don't recall any comments about 'pork chop' on the forms at all. Perhaps you should have put that in. More than happy if you want to submit one now too. Let me know your mailbox number at work and I'll be sure to drop one in for you to fill out.
As for other PPRUNE handles, I have no need and I'm coward. If I've got something to say, I'll say it as 'Keg'. Funnily enough, despite being so well known, I've not yet had anyone in QF have the guts to say something adverse about my posts to my face. Of course, there are a bunch that talk behind my back and take anonymous pot shots on PPRUNE but I'm used to that cowardice after a decade in QF and six years on PPRUNE. Funnily enough that cowardice is displayed equally by former military 'warriors' who have graduated RAAFCol and ADFA. Perhaps they should've concentrated more on the values of the ADF when they were in!
Offchocks, thanks for the kind words. There is just no pleasing those like calligula. They continually look for ways of dragging others down. Sad to take a 'cup is half full' look all the time.
PS: Calligula, my humble apologies for my mis-spelling of 'seniority'. See what happens when you don't get the opportunity to graduate RAAFCol or ADFA!
PPS: I guess that beer in the O's mess is out of the question- especially considering that you obviously aren't PAF anymore. Shame, it would've been nice to be able to do more than just scoff my meal down and get back to instructing staff. I bet you didn't even know I was 'Keg' until I mentioned my eyes!
Last edited by Keg; 10th Jul 2005 at 02:51.
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To balance this up a little......
For those sitting on the sidelines saying "Wow, $160 000 to do nothing but read the paper and drink coffee" remember not all S/O's are on the B744.
S/O's on the B747 Classic and B767 are on barely half this rate yet work a hell of a lot harder (when QF actually wants them to go flying this is).
Ah.. the equality
For those sitting on the sidelines saying "Wow, $160 000 to do nothing but read the paper and drink coffee" remember not all S/O's are on the B744.
S/O's on the B747 Classic and B767 are on barely half this rate yet work a hell of a lot harder (when QF actually wants them to go flying this is).
Ah.. the equality
Cobber 74,
It may not have "entered your little world" back there but there are people out there who do know the particulars of QF employment, do not rely on rumour and are yet not employed by QF.
This is because we left (shock horror) to, persue better opportunities available elsewhere. I imagine this is already a lot to consider in 1 night for you so I will leave it there.
Cheers (You W@nk*r)
Oz2
It may not have "entered your little world" back there but there are people out there who do know the particulars of QF employment, do not rely on rumour and are yet not employed by QF.
This is because we left (shock horror) to, persue better opportunities available elsewhere. I imagine this is already a lot to consider in 1 night for you so I will leave it there.
Cheers (You W@nk*r)
Oz2
Sprucegoose
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OK whip em out boys, lets compare!!
Just remember now it is very cold down here.....
Cheers, HH.
Just remember now it is very cold down here.....
Cheers, HH.
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And Calligula, obviously you're one of those ex-mil types with a very attractive little moustache who craps on ad-bloody-nauseum at the bar about the good old days in Squadron-number-whogivesa****, and bores everyone else to tears with stories about what a ****hot aviator you were Looking forward to your CRM classes, Ace.
Looking forward to your CRM classes, Ace.
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aussie2 , Wan&ER ??? hmmm it seems you are. rumor? my brother s there in qantas and i know what he gets .
so, maybe u shouldnt write until u get your facts right hey. gee there are some sad ppl around hey.
so, maybe u shouldnt write until u get your facts right hey. gee there are some sad ppl around hey.