16 years on from 1989 - what have Australian pilots learned?
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Kap
Maybe you are correct, I am not saying I know everything - just the way it appears sometimes. It makes it abit unfair for those who got their CPL's in the 90's. At the time, you worked hard, hopefully get into a Regional/Major and earn X. But for these people, the goal posts have shifted since they initially took steps in their chosen career. Now, you will probably get paid somewhere between 80% -100% of X and you will have to pay for your own endorsement as well.
Very disheartening!
These 90's CPL's are still competing with just as many as usual for a limited number of jobs.
As stated in an earlier post, at least those coming through now most likely will be competing with less wannabes in 5 years. Not much use though if you are already 30+ with 2,000TT/1,000multi and are just trying to have a go. When the job market changes due to less people considering flying as a career, you may well be too old.
Great timing!
I think the saddest thing for ALL of us in this game is at the end of the day - they won.
Abeles must be giggling in his grave?
Maybe you are correct, I am not saying I know everything - just the way it appears sometimes. It makes it abit unfair for those who got their CPL's in the 90's. At the time, you worked hard, hopefully get into a Regional/Major and earn X. But for these people, the goal posts have shifted since they initially took steps in their chosen career. Now, you will probably get paid somewhere between 80% -100% of X and you will have to pay for your own endorsement as well.
Very disheartening!
These 90's CPL's are still competing with just as many as usual for a limited number of jobs.
As stated in an earlier post, at least those coming through now most likely will be competing with less wannabes in 5 years. Not much use though if you are already 30+ with 2,000TT/1,000multi and are just trying to have a go. When the job market changes due to less people considering flying as a career, you may well be too old.
Great timing!
I think the saddest thing for ALL of us in this game is at the end of the day - they won.
Abeles must be giggling in his grave?
Last edited by Boney; 6th Jun 2005 at 00:08.
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Chief baby,
there was/is a good book on the subject by australian journo Brad Norrington. I 'm sure its out of print now.
Brad was pretty accurate in the book.
Its a pity he can't get it reprinted. Students of Australian Industrial relations would find his book a good reference to this sorry event.
there was/is a good book on the subject by australian journo Brad Norrington. I 'm sure its out of print now.
Brad was pretty accurate in the book.
Its a pity he can't get it reprinted. Students of Australian Industrial relations would find his book a good reference to this sorry event.
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Every year, Kraptin M drags this bait out and tosses it into the forum.
Most people recognised it for what it was, and avoided the bait. But after 11 responses, Boney took the bait and all the old scars are torn open again.
Get over it. Even Gough's followers found out that "maintaining the rage" was a pointless exercise.
Most people recognised it for what it was, and avoided the bait. But after 11 responses, Boney took the bait and all the old scars are torn open again.
Get over it. Even Gough's followers found out that "maintaining the rage" was a pointless exercise.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
What's been learnt from the industrial dispute in 1989? Not much really. That's the great travesty of every one's pain.
There's no cohesion, there's no strong voice and there's still "dog eat dog" out there.
I'm here perched in the UK on not a bad job however I am well aware it can all go pear shaped in no time at all. Is there are union in this company? Probably not since there's many different nationalities working here. So many are not aware of just how vulnerable they are industrially.
Am I a member of a union(s)? You bet I am.
Is this union effective? Hard to say. If you belong the the Big Airline (UK) then I think you're laughing, if not then you know what the 2 letters in the union's name really represent.
Fortunately there's a lot of worker info out there in the WWW but you have to be the one proactive enough to care to look for it. Will they (the union, non Oz) act on it? Who knows? What is very apparent is that the union representation is as only as good as the pilot council representing it. Funnily enough, in the UK airlines there's been a higher than normal percentage of Aussies on various CC.
So in a round about way, perhaps the lessons of 1989 have been absorbed and adapted to a new environment with new accents. I certainly hope so.
There's no cohesion, there's no strong voice and there's still "dog eat dog" out there.
I'm here perched in the UK on not a bad job however I am well aware it can all go pear shaped in no time at all. Is there are union in this company? Probably not since there's many different nationalities working here. So many are not aware of just how vulnerable they are industrially.
Am I a member of a union(s)? You bet I am.
Is this union effective? Hard to say. If you belong the the Big Airline (UK) then I think you're laughing, if not then you know what the 2 letters in the union's name really represent.
Fortunately there's a lot of worker info out there in the WWW but you have to be the one proactive enough to care to look for it. Will they (the union, non Oz) act on it? Who knows? What is very apparent is that the union representation is as only as good as the pilot council representing it. Funnily enough, in the UK airlines there's been a higher than normal percentage of Aussies on various CC.
So in a round about way, perhaps the lessons of 1989 have been absorbed and adapted to a new environment with new accents. I certainly hope so.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Good on ya, Reddo, for re-railing this (what I believe is important) topic.
In actual fact, I think your first two paragraphs put the essence of the Australian aviation "scene" beautifully into its awful perspective.
Because as much as the Dispute of 1989 is raised again and again (and again and again...), how many people apart from the ant/protaginists involved (other than Reddo) have bothered to look beneath the lemming/scab name-calling at the REAL issues involved, that affect each and everyone of them today?
I don't " drag(s) this bait out and toss(es) it into the forum" for any reason other than (usually
) to try to get Oz pilots looking at where they are now, and where they COULD be, by learning, not only, by the mistakes of BOTH groups of pilots involved, but also by the STRENGTH of their peers.
The (various) companies - regardless of where you are working in the world - would like to have you believe that to join a union will be to your detriment.
So precisely WHY are the companies (funny how YOU deal with a company, but they want to deal only WITH you, isn't it!) so anti-union?
Your "manager" finds it quite acceptable for Him to act with the force of the company behind Him, but denies YOU the right to have a spokesperson (union rep) represent YOU.
In actual fact, I think your first two paragraphs put the essence of the Australian aviation "scene" beautifully into its awful perspective.
Because as much as the Dispute of 1989 is raised again and again (and again and again...), how many people apart from the ant/protaginists involved (other than Reddo) have bothered to look beneath the lemming/scab name-calling at the REAL issues involved, that affect each and everyone of them today?
I don't " drag(s) this bait out and toss(es) it into the forum" for any reason other than (usually
) to try to get Oz pilots looking at where they are now, and where they COULD be, by learning, not only, by the mistakes of BOTH groups of pilots involved, but also by the STRENGTH of their peers.The (various) companies - regardless of where you are working in the world - would like to have you believe that to join a union will be to your detriment.
So precisely WHY are the companies (funny how YOU deal with a company, but they want to deal only WITH you, isn't it!) so anti-union?
Your "manager" finds it quite acceptable for Him to act with the force of the company behind Him, but denies YOU the right to have a spokesperson (union rep) represent YOU.
