Re TC "Ingrid"
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Planes and boats moved to shelter
By ALICE BURTON
14mar05
Airline charter companies at Darwin International Airport spent yesterday moving planes inside hangars.
Northern Air Charter sent half its fleet to Batchelor, about 80km south of Darwin, as part of its cyclone procedures.
NAC business development manager Hone Edwards said the company moved their aircraft out of the area in preparation for Ingrid.
"We have lots of our planes hangared in Darwin, but we've sent several aeroplanes to Batchelor," he said.
"We're also going down to Batchelor by road to pick up the pilots who flew them there and bring them back.
"We're constantly ringing the airport tower in regard to whether the airport will be closed.
"If the cyclone does come through, the terminals will be closed.
"We've got ourselves in readiness that if they do close the airport our planes are already in a safe place.
"We're also taking Power and Water out to Goulburn Island to help restore power in the area."
Meanwhile, the Darwin Port Corporation worked overtime to move boats to sheltered areas.
Harbourmaster Bruce Wilson said boats out at sea were moved into the harbour and secured as a safety precaution.
"We've stacked all the international and domestic containers ready for shipping," he said.
"We've secured all our main infrastructure, such as our pilot boat and container crane.
"All the port's tugs have been secured and we've put as many vessels and small craft into the Duck Pond.
"We've also secured barges in Hudson Creek and we've made sure that all the Indonesian fishing boats are secured safely in Blessers Creek near East Arm Wharf.
"We've also secured our facility with cyclone chains."
NT News
By ALICE BURTON
14mar05
Airline charter companies at Darwin International Airport spent yesterday moving planes inside hangars.
Northern Air Charter sent half its fleet to Batchelor, about 80km south of Darwin, as part of its cyclone procedures.
NAC business development manager Hone Edwards said the company moved their aircraft out of the area in preparation for Ingrid.
"We have lots of our planes hangared in Darwin, but we've sent several aeroplanes to Batchelor," he said.
"We're also going down to Batchelor by road to pick up the pilots who flew them there and bring them back.
"We're constantly ringing the airport tower in regard to whether the airport will be closed.
"If the cyclone does come through, the terminals will be closed.
"We've got ourselves in readiness that if they do close the airport our planes are already in a safe place.
"We're also taking Power and Water out to Goulburn Island to help restore power in the area."
Meanwhile, the Darwin Port Corporation worked overtime to move boats to sheltered areas.
Harbourmaster Bruce Wilson said boats out at sea were moved into the harbour and secured as a safety precaution.
"We've stacked all the international and domestic containers ready for shipping," he said.
"We've secured all our main infrastructure, such as our pilot boat and container crane.
"All the port's tugs have been secured and we've put as many vessels and small craft into the Duck Pond.
"We've also secured barges in Hudson Creek and we've made sure that all the Indonesian fishing boats are secured safely in Blessers Creek near East Arm Wharf.
"We've also secured our facility with cyclone chains."
NT News
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Madness
Yeah, ...and WHICH Darwin based company is the only company flying today in the midst of a cyclone to the North?
The only one stupid enough to. No prizes for guessing, but they were publicised for 'securing their fleet' away from it in this morning's paper, I believe.
But then again, who wrote the report...?
520.
The only one stupid enough to. No prizes for guessing, but they were publicised for 'securing their fleet' away from it in this morning's paper, I believe.
But then again, who wrote the report...?
520.
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Continental .. if it was safe to do so, and the job was there, why for heavans sake, could it not be flown?
The airport isn't closed it it? The cyclone is north of Darwin and moving westerly, the winds from what I have seen are not astronomical .. makes sense to me to allow a flight if safety isn't being marginalised.
The airport isn't closed it it? The cyclone is north of Darwin and moving westerly, the winds from what I have seen are not astronomical .. makes sense to me to allow a flight if safety isn't being marginalised.
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It should be pointed out that the buildings substantially damaged or destroyed were apparently "built" to pre 1974 Tracy standards.
The later coded buildings held up well to 160 kt wind gusts.
No doubt we will now see a multi milllion dollar building program as we are in an election year
W the poles are steel channel sections designed to withstand impacts of souped up hoon Commodores but bend in high winds.
The later coded buildings held up well to 160 kt wind gusts.
No doubt we will now see a multi milllion dollar building program as we are in an election year
W the poles are steel channel sections designed to withstand impacts of souped up hoon Commodores but bend in high winds.
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I didn't think it would be necessary to explain this, but the worst weather is actually close to the eye of a cyclone.
NAC were operating flights on the day the cyclone was north of Darwin, to areas that are north of Darwin.
I haven't SAID that they have operated unsafely, but based on the FACTS, you can interpret it for yourself.
520.
NAC were operating flights on the day the cyclone was north of Darwin, to areas that are north of Darwin.
I haven't SAID that they have operated unsafely, but based on the FACTS, you can interpret it for yourself.
520.
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Contintental, you don't have to explain anything at all - particularly to those of us who live in the region.
But, again I ask, if safety isn't compromised, what is wrong with flying? Yes, the cyclone was to the NNW .. tracking W .. where abouts did the flight(s) go? Directly into the cyclone affected area or to the E, N/E, NNE ..
You have aimed a criticism not so much at the company, but at the ability of the PIC to make a decision that may cost the ultimate price .. but you also haven't stated all of the facts that you are obviously aware of .. unlike the rest of us who have read your post, slamming an operator that may have been flying emergency relief workers to one of the communities suffering cyclone damage.
But, again I ask, if safety isn't compromised, what is wrong with flying? Yes, the cyclone was to the NNW .. tracking W .. where abouts did the flight(s) go? Directly into the cyclone affected area or to the E, N/E, NNE ..
You have aimed a criticism not so much at the company, but at the ability of the PIC to make a decision that may cost the ultimate price .. but you also haven't stated all of the facts that you are obviously aware of .. unlike the rest of us who have read your post, slamming an operator that may have been flying emergency relief workers to one of the communities suffering cyclone damage.
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I'd have to agree with 520 on this one.
As we were moving our planes to TN on Sun, the approach controller even said to the NAC plane heading for GBI...and I quote...
"you must be either crazy or stupid"
The only other aircraft flying were Hardys to the south west, but even they got hammered coming into darwin later in the arvo.
I belive it was a new pilot at NAC flying that day, didn't recognise the voice.
I also think Hardys and Air Ngukurr took a big gamble with their fleet leaving them in Darwin. It luckily payed off looking back. I'd hate to be the pilots getting called in the middle of the night to fly the aircraft out in the forcast 120km/h winds.
Hairy stupid senario to get your pilots and planes in to save a few bucks.
As we were moving our planes to TN on Sun, the approach controller even said to the NAC plane heading for GBI...and I quote...
"you must be either crazy or stupid"
The only other aircraft flying were Hardys to the south west, but even they got hammered coming into darwin later in the arvo.
I belive it was a new pilot at NAC flying that day, didn't recognise the voice.
I also think Hardys and Air Ngukurr took a big gamble with their fleet leaving them in Darwin. It luckily payed off looking back. I'd hate to be the pilots getting called in the middle of the night to fly the aircraft out in the forcast 120km/h winds.
Hairy stupid senario to get your pilots and planes in to save a few bucks.
Can I suggest you guys are just taking an opportunity to bag the oposition with no real substance.
Questions.
1 How close to a cyclone can one fly before it is considered unsafe?
2 When should one move their aircraft away from an area under cyclone warning?
3 What experience have you guys got making decisions regarding the above?
4 Have you ever been through a cyclone or are you just NT newbies?
Don't even start on Darwin ATC's comments re the above. What on earth would they know? An example of ATC's knowledge of aircraft was made very obvious to me at a chief pilot/ATC meeting a few years ago when I commented about getting late descent clearances. The answer from the senior ATC person present was that he doesn't understand why we need say 60nm to descent from 10,000 feet in a Bandit/C402/PA31 tyoe aircraft yet the jets who are much faster pass 10,000 ft at approx 30nm. Doesn't that say it all??
OR report sighting a C210 in your six o'clock!!
If you know he landed in winds exceeding the aircraft limitations, if you know he flew VFR in non VFR conditions or if you know he committed any other crime against humanity reort it the appropriate authorities otherwise you sound like whinging school girls.
Questions.
1 How close to a cyclone can one fly before it is considered unsafe?
2 When should one move their aircraft away from an area under cyclone warning?
3 What experience have you guys got making decisions regarding the above?
4 Have you ever been through a cyclone or are you just NT newbies?
Don't even start on Darwin ATC's comments re the above. What on earth would they know? An example of ATC's knowledge of aircraft was made very obvious to me at a chief pilot/ATC meeting a few years ago when I commented about getting late descent clearances. The answer from the senior ATC person present was that he doesn't understand why we need say 60nm to descent from 10,000 feet in a Bandit/C402/PA31 tyoe aircraft yet the jets who are much faster pass 10,000 ft at approx 30nm. Doesn't that say it all??
OR report sighting a C210 in your six o'clock!!
If you know he landed in winds exceeding the aircraft limitations, if you know he flew VFR in non VFR conditions or if you know he committed any other crime against humanity reort it the appropriate authorities otherwise you sound like whinging school girls.
Last edited by RENURPP; 18th Mar 2005 at 03:46.
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Ren,
I'd just like to answer some of your points.
Please keep in mind that during this period Ingrid was a Cat 5 (not since 100 years), so some level of caution or respect should have been shown. Talking to several people who lived through Tracy I found a common thread. Ingrid slowed and turned remarkably close to where Tracy turned toward Darwin. All these people were lulled into a false sence of security by the light local winds in Darwin before and suprised at the speed at which the wind picked up. Hardly enough time to drive from the shops to get home for some.
So regarding -
1. when your in a C310 at cruise and your ground speed indicates -ve 25km/h. Really, if you had the choice would you even want to fly in the vicinity?
2. In plenty of time before the cyclone could hit. The wind at DN was already gusting to 25kts at 1400hrs on Sun.
3. Well if the guys at the B.O.M. can't predict its path with their models and super computers then I would say experience has little to do with making these type of decisions. Just common sense. What would the insurance companies say to the insured when going for a claim for a damaged aircraft at DN when the area was under a cyclone warning. The specific warning even said that the wind WILL gust to 120km/h at Darwin in the evening of Sun (Even though later it didn't). What more do you need to know for risk assessment?
4. Yes in Carnarvon years ago.
I'd just like to answer some of your points.
Please keep in mind that during this period Ingrid was a Cat 5 (not since 100 years), so some level of caution or respect should have been shown. Talking to several people who lived through Tracy I found a common thread. Ingrid slowed and turned remarkably close to where Tracy turned toward Darwin. All these people were lulled into a false sence of security by the light local winds in Darwin before and suprised at the speed at which the wind picked up. Hardly enough time to drive from the shops to get home for some.
So regarding -
1. when your in a C310 at cruise and your ground speed indicates -ve 25km/h. Really, if you had the choice would you even want to fly in the vicinity?
2. In plenty of time before the cyclone could hit. The wind at DN was already gusting to 25kts at 1400hrs on Sun.
3. Well if the guys at the B.O.M. can't predict its path with their models and super computers then I would say experience has little to do with making these type of decisions. Just common sense. What would the insurance companies say to the insured when going for a claim for a damaged aircraft at DN when the area was under a cyclone warning. The specific warning even said that the wind WILL gust to 120km/h at Darwin in the evening of Sun (Even though later it didn't). What more do you need to know for risk assessment?
4. Yes in Carnarvon years ago.
Bottums Up
I'd be interested to know what the problem is flying in the vicinity of a cyclone.
Throughout Ingrid I was at Airlie Beach, checking the BOM site to see if Mrs Claret and our unit would be there when I got back, so I don't have any empirical experience of it.
However, in the past I've flown past/abeam cyclones. Invariably the Wx forecast has been something to the effect of "clockwise flow to 100 kts, within 100nm of cyclone centre". On all occasions the flight has been as smooth as silk, though the ground speed may not have been anything to brag about.
I have a work colleague who flew into the eye of a cyclone years ago in a bug-smasher, not believing the poor ground speed he was indicating. As best I can recall the flight was smooth enough, just slow.
This begs the question, what's wrong with flying in the vicinity of a cyclone? Prudence, and probably the TAF, would suggest an alternate should be carried. After that .....
Throughout Ingrid I was at Airlie Beach, checking the BOM site to see if Mrs Claret and our unit would be there when I got back, so I don't have any empirical experience of it.
However, in the past I've flown past/abeam cyclones. Invariably the Wx forecast has been something to the effect of "clockwise flow to 100 kts, within 100nm of cyclone centre". On all occasions the flight has been as smooth as silk, though the ground speed may not have been anything to brag about.
I have a work colleague who flew into the eye of a cyclone years ago in a bug-smasher, not believing the poor ground speed he was indicating. As best I can recall the flight was smooth enough, just slow.
This begs the question, what's wrong with flying in the vicinity of a cyclone? Prudence, and probably the TAF, would suggest an alternate should be carried. After that .....