Virginblue recruitment
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Age: 62
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Virginblue recruitment
Puzzle me this....
Where is VB at the moment with regard to pilot recruitment? Are they still taking DE capts? And what are the roster patterns like - still 8-10 overnights/month? Any updates gratefully received
Where is VB at the moment with regard to pilot recruitment? Are they still taking DE capts? And what are the roster patterns like - still 8-10 overnights/month? Any updates gratefully received
It has all but stopped.
No DE Captains from now on - there are plenty of F/O's with the required quals to upgrade, including at least 1 former 767/A320 captain who unfortunately joined during a period when no DE captains were being hired.
I suspect that the airline is now a 7-10 year to command airline like most other outfits.
No DE Captains from now on - there are plenty of F/O's with the required quals to upgrade, including at least 1 former 767/A320 captain who unfortunately joined during a period when no DE captains were being hired.
I suspect that the airline is now a 7-10 year to command airline like most other outfits.
Of course they will be around. Just as Jetstar will be. The egos of those at the top of both airlines will not permit them to fail. Both airlines have big brother airlines operating internationally.
I think 7-10 years for a command is a little on the high side. Remember there is no seniority to choke up progression. They have been losing a trickle of FOs to overseas contracts once they have some jet time in the log book. Agree that DE Captains are not going to be needed in the forseeable future.
I think 7-10 years for a command is a little on the high side. Remember there is no seniority to choke up progression. They have been losing a trickle of FOs to overseas contracts once they have some jet time in the log book. Agree that DE Captains are not going to be needed in the forseeable future.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Age: 62
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Puzzle me this....
Thanks for the replies...looks like I'm stuck in Europe for a bit longer then. Just so that I know what I'm missing out on, what sort of money is a skipper on these days?
Thanks for the replies...looks like I'm stuck in Europe for a bit longer then. Just so that I know what I'm missing out on, what sort of money is a skipper on these days?
About 145 - 150k plus allowances - say 10-12 grand a year tax free.
Plus 9% super
6 weeks leave
loss of licence paid to $2100 or $2300 can't remember which.
If you do a search you will find our EBA on the net somewhere.
The tax is the killer though - I pay enough tax to support a small village somewhere! Ah the progressive tax system, ain't it great!
Plus 9% super
6 weeks leave
loss of licence paid to $2100 or $2300 can't remember which.
If you do a search you will find our EBA on the net somewhere.
The tax is the killer though - I pay enough tax to support a small village somewhere! Ah the progressive tax system, ain't it great!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Age: 62
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Puzzle me this....
Thanks dHd, I know what you mean about tax! Income tax in the UK is slightly lower than Oz but its the stealth taxes that really bite. At least you've got the sunshine!
Thanks dHd, I know what you mean about tax! Income tax in the UK is slightly lower than Oz but its the stealth taxes that really bite. At least you've got the sunshine!
DehavillandDriver I have been searching for the Virgin EBA on the net. The airc and wagenet sites only have the version from 2000. The new EBA is on the AFAP website here..http://www.afap.org.au/html/default.asp but a password is needed to access it.
Does anyone else know how to find a copy?
Does anyone else know how to find a copy?
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DJ F/O around the 100k mark + super + loss off licence and allowances as mentioned above.
Don't believe the hype on this overly negative forum,it is an enjoyable job,90% good blokes up the sharp end, and some great eye candy to boot.
Promotion is a bit of a dog's breakfast at the moment,and criteria is somewhat undefined,far too many so-called "experienced" people joining and expecting accelerated commands ahead of others who joined long before them. Take a number and stand in line boys.
Recruitment has slowed until next year it seems,but as mentioned above,there will always be movement through retirements and those seeking greener pastures overseas.
Hang in there guys,it aint perfect,but it's the best job going round these parts at the moment....rat included
Don't believe the hype on this overly negative forum,it is an enjoyable job,90% good blokes up the sharp end, and some great eye candy to boot.
Promotion is a bit of a dog's breakfast at the moment,and criteria is somewhat undefined,far too many so-called "experienced" people joining and expecting accelerated commands ahead of others who joined long before them. Take a number and stand in line boys.
Recruitment has slowed until next year it seems,but as mentioned above,there will always be movement through retirements and those seeking greener pastures overseas.
Hang in there guys,it aint perfect,but it's the best job going round these parts at the moment....rat included
There is always a discrepancy in VB wages.
Cool Gang-never heard of any VB F/o making anywhere near a 100k.
Met a VB captain recently. He and some of his mates ( two eventually successful ) attempting to abandon ship. He said last year he made only 130K for almost 900hrs. I made this in 95 as an F/O.
Don't delude yourselves. VB pilots are grossly underpaid in a booming pilot market.
I am jaded, can't stand VB because I feel threatened by what pilots work for. The dominoes continue to fall and only reversed by where it started- can't you blokes get a payrise?
Good luck to the VB guys trying to get out. It is sad; only a few years ago well paid airline jobs based in BNE would see no attrition.
Cool Gang-never heard of any VB F/o making anywhere near a 100k.
Met a VB captain recently. He and some of his mates ( two eventually successful ) attempting to abandon ship. He said last year he made only 130K for almost 900hrs. I made this in 95 as an F/O.
Don't delude yourselves. VB pilots are grossly underpaid in a booming pilot market.
I am jaded, can't stand VB because I feel threatened by what pilots work for. The dominoes continue to fall and only reversed by where it started- can't you blokes get a payrise?
Good luck to the VB guys trying to get out. It is sad; only a few years ago well paid airline jobs based in BNE would see no attrition.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: negative RAIM.....
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Out of curiosity, what are the min requirements into VB? I did a brief search a while ago and was sent to the pilot.cv website, which I am all too familiar with.
I am assuming it is the 1500, 500 multi, ATPL and 3 renewals? Unlike QF there doesn't seem to be the exact crtiteria anywhere.
I am assuming it is the 1500, 500 multi, ATPL and 3 renewals? Unlike QF there doesn't seem to be the exact crtiteria anywhere.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: PLANET EARTH
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cool and the gang i think you have drunk to much cheap vino on your 15 overnights per month.
Cant agree more Gnadenburg,its just quite remarkable to see the poor sucess rate of the Vb guys to gain employment into reputable airlines outside of Oz.
Good luck to the guys this week at you know where
Common theme amongst all of the prospective candidates is that they are so sick of being poor
Cant agree more Gnadenburg,its just quite remarkable to see the poor sucess rate of the Vb guys to gain employment into reputable airlines outside of Oz.
Good luck to the guys this week at you know where
Common theme amongst all of the prospective candidates is that they are so sick of being poor
This really belongs in the General Aviation forum given the employer concerned.
Cool& the gang, if f/o's are earning 100K per year I wouldn't think there are too many greener pastures out there. When you are in paying rent next time, have a think about how you'll get out of the rental trap (or western suburbs) given your grim financial situation.
Iakklat- spot on, the other common theme is the candidates all want to get out of the charter game.
Gnadenburg is correct, these guys should fix the rot they started but realistically aren't worth any more than they are currently paid.
Cool& the gang, if f/o's are earning 100K per year I wouldn't think there are too many greener pastures out there. When you are in paying rent next time, have a think about how you'll get out of the rental trap (or western suburbs) given your grim financial situation.
Iakklat- spot on, the other common theme is the candidates all want to get out of the charter game.
Gnadenburg is correct, these guys should fix the rot they started but realistically aren't worth any more than they are currently paid.
Last edited by Karunch; 11th Oct 2004 at 10:54.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: HK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I think 7-10 years for a command is a little on the high side. Remember there is no seniority to choke up progression. They have been losing a trickle of FOs to overseas contracts once they have some jet time in the log book." - Icarus2001
Mmmm Icarus. How does that the fact that FOs are leaving aid in progression? And how does seniority 'choke up' the progression?
I think that VB FOs are dreaming if they think that a command is even 10 years away. With Pacific Blue and Virgin Atlantic taking any available expansion into the o/s market AND the fact that alot of VB captains are younger than "most other outfits", the only foreseeable way to a command is through medical failures or retirements i.e. a looong wait.
Mmmm Icarus. How does that the fact that FOs are leaving aid in progression? And how does seniority 'choke up' the progression?
I think that VB FOs are dreaming if they think that a command is even 10 years away. With Pacific Blue and Virgin Atlantic taking any available expansion into the o/s market AND the fact that alot of VB captains are younger than "most other outfits", the only foreseeable way to a command is through medical failures or retirements i.e. a looong wait.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gnadenburg, Iakklat and others
It must be terrible, suffering from a superiority complex.
VB F/O basic salary $ 86500
Retention Bonus $ 9750
Total $ 96250
That sounds pretty close to the $ 100,000 mark.
Also, as mentioned, Super, Loss of insurance, and 10 to 12 k per year in allowances.
I have never heard of a General Aviation company that pays that kind of money, and if there is, I bet that they don't pay 250 First Officers that amount.
Anyway, you go and reassure yourself that you and your skygod buddies are the best, and deserve to be paid much more.
VB F/O basic salary $ 86500
Retention Bonus $ 9750
Total $ 96250
That sounds pretty close to the $ 100,000 mark.
Also, as mentioned, Super, Loss of insurance, and 10 to 12 k per year in allowances.
This really belongs in the General Aviation forum given the employer concerned.
Anyway, you go and reassure yourself that you and your skygod buddies are the best, and deserve to be paid much more.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: PLANET EARTH
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep next generation its pretty sad when you have to so proudly quote and take in to account that your dinner allowance,super and loss of licence are all part of the wonderful and generous package that Vb pay your happy little pilot group.
Karunch was perhaps not drawing parallels to your salary and ga, but maybe to your operating ethos at the employer concerned .Just talk to any one of your comrade pilots who have worked for a decent carrier and ask there opinion
You guys sold out in every respect, I, like Karunch,Gnadenburg and countless others just sit back and shake my head in disbelief from far away shores at the spiralling industry in Oz.The stories from guys trying to escape the sentence and get a better job are just unbelievable.You and your like minded thinking budddies are just a cancerous plague and a direct threat to the working conditions of airline pilots that work for respectable carriers globally.
Karunch was perhaps not drawing parallels to your salary and ga, but maybe to your operating ethos at the employer concerned .Just talk to any one of your comrade pilots who have worked for a decent carrier and ask there opinion
You guys sold out in every respect, I, like Karunch,Gnadenburg and countless others just sit back and shake my head in disbelief from far away shores at the spiralling industry in Oz.The stories from guys trying to escape the sentence and get a better job are just unbelievable.You and your like minded thinking budddies are just a cancerous plague and a direct threat to the working conditions of airline pilots that work for respectable carriers globally.
Last edited by Iakklat; 11th Oct 2004 at 14:56.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: PLANET EARTH
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now ive heard it all, a Virgin Capt comparing and justifying his conditions against Ek.
Dehaviland when you take in to account tax rates,company profit share(which was 3 months salary this year),schooling,housing,tax free car loans,allowances, man you fall way short.
So slap on your bomber jacket and sing another song on the Pa Dehavilland as you are deluding yourself.
Dehaviland when you take in to account tax rates,company profit share(which was 3 months salary this year),schooling,housing,tax free car loans,allowances, man you fall way short.
So slap on your bomber jacket and sing another song on the Pa Dehavilland as you are deluding yourself.
Grandpa Aerotart
Iakklat you are a fool. EK pay those extras because they must to get people to live in the sandpit. It's an expatriot package that recognises the high cost of living in the UAE.
Not all pilots at EK got three months btw...some got just a few weeks after well in excess of 1 years service....bit like Vbs 'retention bonus' or wtf it's called these days.
About the only difference between VB, J* and QF dom payscales is where overtime kicks in...55 hrs for heros as opposed to 85 odd for the rest. The 55 hr level for heros was put there to induce people to turn their backs on mates.
While you and the likes of Gnadenburg squeel like spoilt children about things which are none of your business (other peoples pay and conditions) good things are happening to those with the gumption to get off their ar$es and improve themselves....like investing in their own careers to their advantage...like it or not being type rated to gain INITIAL employment with many companies has become a world wide trend....I don't like it anymore than you but that's life. Last year I had to get a 767 type rating to get a job I wanted...it was the first multi type rating I've ever paid for out of 12 odd that includes 4 other jets and 4 turboprops...so no I don't consider myself as unemployable trash that had to buy myself a job.
Now the J* and mainline guys are speaking with a united voice (mostly) and word is that will extend to Sunnies and Eastern at some point....all this happening with the agreement of management...sound to you like management want another 89 style fight that nobody wins?
Not all pilots at EK got three months btw...some got just a few weeks after well in excess of 1 years service....bit like Vbs 'retention bonus' or wtf it's called these days.
About the only difference between VB, J* and QF dom payscales is where overtime kicks in...55 hrs for heros as opposed to 85 odd for the rest. The 55 hr level for heros was put there to induce people to turn their backs on mates.
While you and the likes of Gnadenburg squeel like spoilt children about things which are none of your business (other peoples pay and conditions) good things are happening to those with the gumption to get off their ar$es and improve themselves....like investing in their own careers to their advantage...like it or not being type rated to gain INITIAL employment with many companies has become a world wide trend....I don't like it anymore than you but that's life. Last year I had to get a 767 type rating to get a job I wanted...it was the first multi type rating I've ever paid for out of 12 odd that includes 4 other jets and 4 turboprops...so no I don't consider myself as unemployable trash that had to buy myself a job.
Now the J* and mainline guys are speaking with a united voice (mostly) and word is that will extend to Sunnies and Eastern at some point....all this happening with the agreement of management...sound to you like management want another 89 style fight that nobody wins?
Chimbu
The conditions at VB are the business of professional pilots in the region because at the moment, surreptitiously, they are affecting negotiations for future payrates.
The low wages and poor perks at VB have resulted in similar, or less, with start ups such as Jetstar, Jetstar Asia, Jetconnect and Pacific Blue.
Pilots attempting to hold the line-QF, CX, KA, EK and others face tough times at the table, negotiating improved conditions and pay rates for Australian basings. The tough conditions brought on by what must be the cheapest pilot labour worldwide-Australians.
It is accentuated by Virgin Blue pilots, and possibly yourself ( who the hell has to pay for a 767 endorsement), who use their present employer as a stepping stone to the few jobs left worldwide that offer conditions of old.
This is a General Aviation paradox, paying for your own endorsement and working for low wages as a means to an end. It should not be occuring at an airline level.
Even 89ers shake there head at VB conditions I might add.
Dehav'
There are a lot of Virgin Blue pilots trying to get into Dragonair and Emirates at this very moment. It frustrating that they can not see the damage their present conditions have done to the industry. The short sightedness of paying for a crappy job as a means to get a well paying job; the blissful ignorance of believing the better paid job will still be well paid in a few years time in market conditions THEY created!
Virgin Blue pilot attrition may well be impertinent to my market forces theory as, despite the attempts and flippant beliefs coming out of the Brekky Creek, success rates low. Someone mentioned QF and Easten pilots more successful. A good effort the later, holding the line the Eastern turbo prop guys, not paying for an endorsement as it was not so long ago in Australia.
Success rates for VB pilots may improve if they realise there are some aerodynamic fundamentals in having winglets. They are not there for a Virgin Blue logo or to make their little red, sports car of the sky look any cooler!
Aviations biggest bullshi$$ers VB pilots-when talking about their pay rates. Was talking to an VB driver in Dubai who mentioned he sruggled to make 130K and flying near 900 hours.
If you double your DTA, include super and loss of license insurance, aswell as the case of village wine from Branson at XMAS, I suppose VB pilots crawl toward the 150K mark!
The conditions at VB are the business of professional pilots in the region because at the moment, surreptitiously, they are affecting negotiations for future payrates.
The low wages and poor perks at VB have resulted in similar, or less, with start ups such as Jetstar, Jetstar Asia, Jetconnect and Pacific Blue.
Pilots attempting to hold the line-QF, CX, KA, EK and others face tough times at the table, negotiating improved conditions and pay rates for Australian basings. The tough conditions brought on by what must be the cheapest pilot labour worldwide-Australians.
It is accentuated by Virgin Blue pilots, and possibly yourself ( who the hell has to pay for a 767 endorsement), who use their present employer as a stepping stone to the few jobs left worldwide that offer conditions of old.
This is a General Aviation paradox, paying for your own endorsement and working for low wages as a means to an end. It should not be occuring at an airline level.
Even 89ers shake there head at VB conditions I might add.
Dehav'
There are a lot of Virgin Blue pilots trying to get into Dragonair and Emirates at this very moment. It frustrating that they can not see the damage their present conditions have done to the industry. The short sightedness of paying for a crappy job as a means to get a well paying job; the blissful ignorance of believing the better paid job will still be well paid in a few years time in market conditions THEY created!
Virgin Blue pilot attrition may well be impertinent to my market forces theory as, despite the attempts and flippant beliefs coming out of the Brekky Creek, success rates low. Someone mentioned QF and Easten pilots more successful. A good effort the later, holding the line the Eastern turbo prop guys, not paying for an endorsement as it was not so long ago in Australia.
Success rates for VB pilots may improve if they realise there are some aerodynamic fundamentals in having winglets. They are not there for a Virgin Blue logo or to make their little red, sports car of the sky look any cooler!
Aviations biggest bullshi$$ers VB pilots-when talking about their pay rates. Was talking to an VB driver in Dubai who mentioned he sruggled to make 130K and flying near 900 hours.
If you double your DTA, include super and loss of license insurance, aswell as the case of village wine from Branson at XMAS, I suppose VB pilots crawl toward the 150K mark!