Virginblue recruitment
Grandpa Aerotart
People like me pay for a 767 type rating Gnadenburg....people who have been in the unfortunate position of having a very good corporate job end and decided to go back to airline flying. I invested in my future with a job to go to straight after and now earn within a few % of what EK guys do but with a much lower cost of living than is the case in the UAE....and the only sand around is on beaches.
Dehavilland, you prattle on about your little airline in your little country while drawing comparison to the bigger (but not big) airline in your little country. Take off the blinkers for a while & then pass comment. No doubt you've heard the analogy '10 years at Cx/ Ek equates to 30 years at Qf'- it still holds true. They pay more partially to lure candidates O/s but mainly to get a better standard of applicant. Some experience Os would serve you well, although as we have found (& Iakklat correctly points out), the Vb Captain standard roughly equates to the entry level (Fo or So) standard of most flag and some regional carriers. Times your 150K by 3 and you'll get close to what the better carriers in the region pay for narrowbody captains.
What next Chimbu, pay for your command upgrade or your next instrument renewal, where do you draw the line. Vb started the 'pay for training' rot and it has spread like cancer amongst the less reputable carriers. You are poorer as a result, I cannot see why you defend this rotten system.
Gnadenburg is spot on, it is the domain of all professional pilots to ensure the rot is contained so there is a 'pot of gold' after all the self paid training.
What next Chimbu, pay for your command upgrade or your next instrument renewal, where do you draw the line. Vb started the 'pay for training' rot and it has spread like cancer amongst the less reputable carriers. You are poorer as a result, I cannot see why you defend this rotten system.
Gnadenburg is spot on, it is the domain of all professional pilots to ensure the rot is contained so there is a 'pot of gold' after all the self paid training.
Grandpa Aerotart
I don't know of any companies doing that...you arrive type rated and all after is at company expense..as it should be. When I upgrade it will be in the normal fashion, as it will be when the company upgrades the fleet eventually.
Oh and where is this mythical company that pays people who joined post 1993 450K? I have friends at every Asian airline...apart from a few A scalers at CX none are on anything like that money.
So in your opinion what should I have done?
After a very successfull 16 odd years where I progressed in the time honoured fashion from C185 through Bn2,C402,DHC6,E110,Dash7, F28, Bae146, Da200 and then found myself unemployed, for the first time ever, what would you have had me do?
I suppose in your mind I should have just folded my tent and called that a career at 42 hey?
I don't necesarily agree 100% with every aspect of the company I now work fors method of recruitment but failing waiting, possibly indefinately, for a 'classic' employer to recognise my talent I decided to chose this route. I now work for a pretty good company with good standards and a pleasant bunch of fellow employees. I enjoy going to work and am paid reasonably well...no not CX A scale but then that was never going to happen unless I managed to turn back time 10 years.
My package compares favourably with mates at EK with a lower cost of living. Not as much as mates at KA with a dramatically lower cost of living.
I like where I live! There are good schools!It's very safe here for my daughter! We are close to home with a very good staff travel system.
Oh did I mention I'm a single Dad? Somewhat limits my options if I want to actually be a Dad..which I do take great pride in!!
So karunch, please inform me how I should be pursuing my career...please anything that would allow you to sleep well at night will be given due consideration before be consigned to the round file.
EDIT:
What on gods green earth leads you to think I give a rat's fundamental orofice.. How many fools who declined employment at CX during the 'employment ban' has the HKAOA actively helped? I'd bet you London to a brick that not one has even passed through the mind of any Office holders!
If you can't negotiate an increase on the merits perhaps it has no merits....no free lunches.
Oh and where is this mythical company that pays people who joined post 1993 450K? I have friends at every Asian airline...apart from a few A scalers at CX none are on anything like that money.
So in your opinion what should I have done?
After a very successfull 16 odd years where I progressed in the time honoured fashion from C185 through Bn2,C402,DHC6,E110,Dash7, F28, Bae146, Da200 and then found myself unemployed, for the first time ever, what would you have had me do?
I suppose in your mind I should have just folded my tent and called that a career at 42 hey?
I don't necesarily agree 100% with every aspect of the company I now work fors method of recruitment but failing waiting, possibly indefinately, for a 'classic' employer to recognise my talent I decided to chose this route. I now work for a pretty good company with good standards and a pleasant bunch of fellow employees. I enjoy going to work and am paid reasonably well...no not CX A scale but then that was never going to happen unless I managed to turn back time 10 years.
My package compares favourably with mates at EK with a lower cost of living. Not as much as mates at KA with a dramatically lower cost of living.
I like where I live! There are good schools!It's very safe here for my daughter! We are close to home with a very good staff travel system.
Oh did I mention I'm a single Dad? Somewhat limits my options if I want to actually be a Dad..which I do take great pride in!!
So karunch, please inform me how I should be pursuing my career...please anything that would allow you to sleep well at night will be given due consideration before be consigned to the round file.
EDIT:
Pilots attempting to hold the line-QF, CX, KA, EK and others face tough times at the table, negotiating improved conditions and pay rates for Australian basings.
If you can't negotiate an increase on the merits perhaps it has no merits....no free lunches.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 12th Oct 2004 at 12:14.
Paying for your own endorsement started with Southwest Airlines in the states,who required you to have a B737 on your licence before employing you. If you chose to pay for it yourself or get rated in another airline and then join that was up to you.However their pilots seem to be happy and well paid.
Have a look at this thread on Ryan Air http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=4
I couldn't believe some of the things that have been forced on their pilots. Once they have got this through they can no doubt pass on some of the savings to the customer who now pays EUR 23 for a flight instead of EUR 25 ,putting pressure on the competition to match the ridiculously low prices.
The disgusting practices of Australian General Aviation seem to be thriving in the airlines now.
This job is getting less and less attractive every day. Financially you are better off getting a job in the resource industry .$100 000 /year not unusual, 4 on /4 off rosters ,good food ,better job security ,far less stress.STRONG UNIONS
Sure some mid 20s captains in Virgin Blue have done very well for themselves ,having paid for a 737 rating ,but where does it all stop ? Get ready to kiss company pension plans goodbye ,pay for your own uniform ,lower and lower standard accommodation ,no job security on your temporary contract.
The desirable jobs in this industry are getting fewer and fewer.
Have a look at this thread on Ryan Air http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=4
I couldn't believe some of the things that have been forced on their pilots. Once they have got this through they can no doubt pass on some of the savings to the customer who now pays EUR 23 for a flight instead of EUR 25 ,putting pressure on the competition to match the ridiculously low prices.
The disgusting practices of Australian General Aviation seem to be thriving in the airlines now.
This job is getting less and less attractive every day. Financially you are better off getting a job in the resource industry .$100 000 /year not unusual, 4 on /4 off rosters ,good food ,better job security ,far less stress.STRONG UNIONS
Sure some mid 20s captains in Virgin Blue have done very well for themselves ,having paid for a 737 rating ,but where does it all stop ? Get ready to kiss company pension plans goodbye ,pay for your own uniform ,lower and lower standard accommodation ,no job security on your temporary contract.
The desirable jobs in this industry are getting fewer and fewer.
Grandpa Aerotart
Metro man...for gods sake, go and work in the resource sector then!!!
My career, and my family, and my future is in my hands. There never has been and never will be this mythical overriding group think that a very few sad losers believe will unite (or used to unite) any pilot body into a homogenous union of thought and action. It has never been more complicated than each individual taking his chances on the slippery slope that is any career but particularly aviation.
A successfull career in aviation has always been about equal servings of hard work and luck. Pining for 'the good old days' is just wasted effort.
My career, and my family, and my future is in my hands. There never has been and never will be this mythical overriding group think that a very few sad losers believe will unite (or used to unite) any pilot body into a homogenous union of thought and action. It has never been more complicated than each individual taking his chances on the slippery slope that is any career but particularly aviation.
A successfull career in aviation has always been about equal servings of hard work and luck. Pining for 'the good old days' is just wasted effort.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 12th Oct 2004 at 15:02.
Good Oh Chimbu.
Don't be so bitter. There are good jobs out there but they are under siege. That so many pilots are so flippant in paying for endorsements one small factor.
Good luck. The good times will come back but I reckon you were a goose for paying for your endorsement in a bull market. Lucky you didn't lose your job around Sept 11, 2001 eh!
Dehav'
What I get paid means I will never be a threat to your conditions of service- I promise! However, you are a very real threat to my conditions.
Fruitless as it may well be, reminding Virgin Blue pilots of how poor their conditions are, about all I can do to stop your cancer spreading. And don't say it doesn't hurt! I don't add my DTA or company compulsory superannuation contributions to beef up the feel good factor of my Gross Annual Salary!
Don't be so bitter. There are good jobs out there but they are under siege. That so many pilots are so flippant in paying for endorsements one small factor.
Good luck. The good times will come back but I reckon you were a goose for paying for your endorsement in a bull market. Lucky you didn't lose your job around Sept 11, 2001 eh!
Dehav'
What I get paid means I will never be a threat to your conditions of service- I promise! However, you are a very real threat to my conditions.
Fruitless as it may well be, reminding Virgin Blue pilots of how poor their conditions are, about all I can do to stop your cancer spreading. And don't say it doesn't hurt! I don't add my DTA or company compulsory superannuation contributions to beef up the feel good factor of my Gross Annual Salary!
Grandpa Aerotart
No it was Sept 2002...just in time for SARS... probably the reasons I spent more than 12 months looking unsuccessfully....before biting the bullet and paying for the 767 type rating.
Not bitter Gnadenburg...not in the slightest...pissed off at the selfish attitude of some, but not bitter.
So you and your mate karunch have no suggestions for me?
Really disappointed...I was hoping you could point out where I fecked up chasing jobs, including the one I got, for 15mths while not so slowly losing many of the financial gains I made over the previous years of good money....including a water front house!!
I have a good job now...the pay in Oz$ terms has gone backwards a little due exchange rates and the strong Oz$ but when I make it back to the LHS I'll be making a lot more than any line pilot at VB...difference is I don't think they are a cancer on our industry, just good pilots (mostly, like anywhere) trying there best to do as well as they can for their families and themselves.
This thread has been somewhat hijacked...the bottom line is there are VERY many forces at work in our industry and nothing happening at the moment wasn't happening 10 years ago.
Once upon a time there were relatively few airlines and relatively few airline pilots and people paid a LOT of money to travel. Airlines probably could afford silly payscales in those days. These days there are 10 times as many airlines at least and they can only compete on price in the end because that's all the paying public really care about...unfortunately.
Huge amounts of competition and small margins as a % of capital invested = the way the industry is going. Our only positive is young people are not attracted to our industry the way we were and as a result experienced pilots are becoming a little harder to find....hopefully that will mean a reverse of the trend of the last 10 yrs.
Whatever the stresses your T&Cs might be under are not caused by VB, J* or whomever...they are just a product of the times in which we live.
Not bitter Gnadenburg...not in the slightest...pissed off at the selfish attitude of some, but not bitter.
So you and your mate karunch have no suggestions for me?
Really disappointed...I was hoping you could point out where I fecked up chasing jobs, including the one I got, for 15mths while not so slowly losing many of the financial gains I made over the previous years of good money....including a water front house!!
I have a good job now...the pay in Oz$ terms has gone backwards a little due exchange rates and the strong Oz$ but when I make it back to the LHS I'll be making a lot more than any line pilot at VB...difference is I don't think they are a cancer on our industry, just good pilots (mostly, like anywhere) trying there best to do as well as they can for their families and themselves.
This thread has been somewhat hijacked...the bottom line is there are VERY many forces at work in our industry and nothing happening at the moment wasn't happening 10 years ago.
Once upon a time there were relatively few airlines and relatively few airline pilots and people paid a LOT of money to travel. Airlines probably could afford silly payscales in those days. These days there are 10 times as many airlines at least and they can only compete on price in the end because that's all the paying public really care about...unfortunately.
Huge amounts of competition and small margins as a % of capital invested = the way the industry is going. Our only positive is young people are not attracted to our industry the way we were and as a result experienced pilots are becoming a little harder to find....hopefully that will mean a reverse of the trend of the last 10 yrs.
Whatever the stresses your T&Cs might be under are not caused by VB, J* or whomever...they are just a product of the times in which we live.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 12th Oct 2004 at 16:23.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just for the record (info available on the net or via AFAP).
DJ Captain basic salary $133080 + $15000 = $148080 Guaranteed and in the bank. Yes the $15000 is not pensionable but still part of basic either way you look at it.
Allowances, superannuation, loss of licence etc etc are extras.
Whats the basic for a QF 737 Captain ? Lets NOT talk overtime here either. Basic only.
Whats the basic for a JS A320 Captain ?
DJ Captain basic salary $133080 + $15000 = $148080 Guaranteed and in the bank. Yes the $15000 is not pensionable but still part of basic either way you look at it.
Allowances, superannuation, loss of licence etc etc are extras.
Whats the basic for a QF 737 Captain ? Lets NOT talk overtime here either. Basic only.
Whats the basic for a JS A320 Captain ?
