Checklists! when, where is there overkill?
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Several points to make here, although I have not read all posts on this thread, so feel free to cut me down.
- I notice some people think you have to check things like throttle friction
I dont think stuff like that should even be on check lists. Along with things like Seats-Adjusted, Harness-Adjusted and secure. If you need to be reminded to put on your belt you should not be in a plane. These are all personal comfort/safety things which should be automatic.
-If you fly the same bus everyday, you end up knowing the thing inside out, so I think it is acceptable to discard the checklist once you know it by heart. You have to be very crefull though if you fly different types on a regular basis.
- I also agree that if you go through every item every time you start up in many cases you will not have time to complete the flying for the day. If you have 14 legs in one day with loading, unloading etc, you just dont have time, you must however KNOW your checklist and DO the checks.
But as people have said here if you like to use it or need to use a checklist, dont let anyone stop you.
If you fly for a living and your boss does not mind you burning an extra 10 minutes of fuel on every leg to run through your checklist step by step, well go right ahead.
To answer the original question, YES sometimes there is an overkill with checklists. Seat-Adjusted and Secure
please. Sit in the bloody thing, if it feels wrong adjust the bugger, you dont have to wait until it comes up in the checklist to get yourself comfortable.
- I notice some people think you have to check things like throttle friction
I dont think stuff like that should even be on check lists. Along with things like Seats-Adjusted, Harness-Adjusted and secure. If you need to be reminded to put on your belt you should not be in a plane. These are all personal comfort/safety things which should be automatic.-If you fly the same bus everyday, you end up knowing the thing inside out, so I think it is acceptable to discard the checklist once you know it by heart. You have to be very crefull though if you fly different types on a regular basis.
- I also agree that if you go through every item every time you start up in many cases you will not have time to complete the flying for the day. If you have 14 legs in one day with loading, unloading etc, you just dont have time, you must however KNOW your checklist and DO the checks.
But as people have said here if you like to use it or need to use a checklist, dont let anyone stop you.
If you fly for a living and your boss does not mind you burning an extra 10 minutes of fuel on every leg to run through your checklist step by step, well go right ahead.
To answer the original question, YES sometimes there is an overkill with checklists. Seat-Adjusted and Secure
please. Sit in the bloody thing, if it feels wrong adjust the bugger, you dont have to wait until it comes up in the checklist to get yourself comfortable.
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I've been flying jet transports for a long while, and whenever I pull out a checklist, I think of the advice given to me as a young FO, and that was.....everything we do up here is because somebody screwed up. That's why we use checklists.
It doesn't matter how simple the aircraft is, use checklists, and then it isn't forgotten; well mostly it isn't forgotten, but doesn't that tell you something? If we can still screw up with a checklist, then what would itbe like without one?
Checkists are like uniforms. They're a form of discipline; simple as that.
It doesn't matter how simple the aircraft is, use checklists, and then it isn't forgotten; well mostly it isn't forgotten, but doesn't that tell you something? If we can still screw up with a checklist, then what would itbe like without one?
Checkists are like uniforms. They're a form of discipline; simple as that.
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relax737
I agree with you buddy....For jets, yes, multi crew. I think it is a bit different for single pilot in smaller aircraft. You should know the checklist. Because even if using one you could be distracted or interupted and miss an item, and you could think that it is done just because you were using the list, but thhere is no one around to pick up something you missed in single crew ops. Anyway cheers
I agree with you buddy....For jets, yes, multi crew. I think it is a bit different for single pilot in smaller aircraft. You should know the checklist. Because even if using one you could be distracted or interupted and miss an item, and you could think that it is done just because you were using the list, but thhere is no one around to pick up something you missed in single crew ops. Anyway cheers
Grandpa Aerotart
No argument there 737....however a mneumonic is just as much a valid checklist as a written one and imo more appropriate to single pilot ops.
They should also be short and concise...killer items only...like boeing checklists.
I put a SAFEGO type in my Bonanza...mostly because it's online at an aeroclub and flown by relatively inexperienced pilots who are never 'current' in any true sense. They're a flip type with a couple or three things under each tab. Perform a scan of two or three related items and them flip the tab to cover said items.
They should also be short and concise...killer items only...like boeing checklists.
I put a SAFEGO type in my Bonanza...mostly because it's online at an aeroclub and flown by relatively inexperienced pilots who are never 'current' in any true sense. They're a flip type with a couple or three things under each tab. Perform a scan of two or three related items and them flip the tab to cover said items.
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to be or not to be
The first problem with checklists is what to include and what to leave out. The second problem is, if I have a checklist, when should I use it and when is it a waste of time, money, unnecessary or I have the experience not to need it etc?
The normal proceedures section of the PA-31 POH is 27 pages long. The checklist section is about 10 pages. Much of it should be ‘standard operating proceedure’ for a competent commercial pilot. How I solve the problem is as follows:
With whatever aircraft I fly I ask myself the question, ‘what are the absolutely essential actions that I must know or take for a particular phase of flight, to ensure that if I have a memory lapse or a distraction, I will not damage the passengers, myself, or the aircraft?
As an example , following is a minimum checklist for TO and Landing which will work to prevent the unimaginable from happening in most circumstances.
TAKE-OFF.
Brakes: off & checked.
Controls: free & correct
Hatches & Harnesses / Pax.
Fuel & Flaps.
Trim set.
ENGINE FAILURE?
LANDING.
Prop & Mixture.
Undercarriage: confirmed down.
Fuel & Flaps.
Trim & Brakes checked.
It isn’t much really, but if you think about it and the implications, and ALWAYS do AT LEAST these things in whatever you fly in GA, a happy future will be yours.
BP
The normal proceedures section of the PA-31 POH is 27 pages long. The checklist section is about 10 pages. Much of it should be ‘standard operating proceedure’ for a competent commercial pilot. How I solve the problem is as follows:
With whatever aircraft I fly I ask myself the question, ‘what are the absolutely essential actions that I must know or take for a particular phase of flight, to ensure that if I have a memory lapse or a distraction, I will not damage the passengers, myself, or the aircraft?
As an example , following is a minimum checklist for TO and Landing which will work to prevent the unimaginable from happening in most circumstances.
TAKE-OFF.
Brakes: off & checked.
Controls: free & correct
Hatches & Harnesses / Pax.
Fuel & Flaps.
Trim set.
ENGINE FAILURE?
LANDING.
Prop & Mixture.
Undercarriage: confirmed down.
Fuel & Flaps.
Trim & Brakes checked.
It isn’t much really, but if you think about it and the implications, and ALWAYS do AT LEAST these things in whatever you fly in GA, a happy future will be yours.
BP
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Ofcourse checklists are important and anyone who says otherwise is a fool!
People are complaining about the efficiency of a checklist, putting your head down and not looking for traffic. If you know how to scan properly then that shouldn't be a factor!
And for those really smart people who 'remember' their checklist. What about when things get a little tougher, or your under stress, or your flying a faster aircraft?? Will you remember everything then?
The smartest way to carry out procedures in the cockpit is to go through and do your 'flows. This was a new concept for me until recently but it works pretty well.
A flow is simply the memorised items the you use to configure the aircraft for the desired state of flight you are in. After you have done your flows, you use the checklist as a backup. This eliminates any chance of a mistake if done properly.
it's not difficult
and it is worth a little bit of extra effort. dont you think?
People are complaining about the efficiency of a checklist, putting your head down and not looking for traffic. If you know how to scan properly then that shouldn't be a factor!
And for those really smart people who 'remember' their checklist. What about when things get a little tougher, or your under stress, or your flying a faster aircraft?? Will you remember everything then?
The smartest way to carry out procedures in the cockpit is to go through and do your 'flows. This was a new concept for me until recently but it works pretty well.
A flow is simply the memorised items the you use to configure the aircraft for the desired state of flight you are in. After you have done your flows, you use the checklist as a backup. This eliminates any chance of a mistake if done properly.
it's not difficult
and it is worth a little bit of extra effort. dont you think?
