What is instructing time really worth ??
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What is instructing time really worth ??
hey all,
was hoping to get some input on what people think of instructing time. have heard around that some people like and dislike the whole scene. more importantly, what do the hirers think of people with a 1000 hrs of instruction. granted, it is PIC, but how valuable is it. what about twin instruction on say a duchess ? does this change the scenario or peoples' views ? thanks for the replies.
adios
was hoping to get some input on what people think of instructing time. have heard around that some people like and dislike the whole scene. more importantly, what do the hirers think of people with a 1000 hrs of instruction. granted, it is PIC, but how valuable is it. what about twin instruction on say a duchess ? does this change the scenario or peoples' views ? thanks for the replies.
adios
Join Date: Aug 2004
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it's great for your flying discipline not to mention the added skills you pick up showing students how to do max rates and forced landings etc everyday. It can get tedious but it's always a great feeling when someone you've trained from scratch gets their PPL. The multi training is better as the students generally know what they're doing by that stage. From the hirers perspective (are we talking airlines or what?) a mix of multi instructing and air transport should see you right. I wouldn't have thought 1000hrs instructing should be a hinderance. Just make sure you take sum chewy up for those students with bad breath....
Join Date: Jun 2004
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In europe these days instructing doesnt really mount to a hill of beans....its money that seems to talk. Can you buy a type rating?.....can you buy some line training?..you can.?..well come on down to discount Dave's airline...we want you and your money!
I just hope it doesnt go that way back in Oz or NZ.....but my brain reckons it will.
Cheers
H
I just hope it doesnt go that way back in Oz or NZ.....but my brain reckons it will.
Cheers
H
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In NZ seems to be the best way to get that first initial flying job - unless you have unlimted money & are able to buy your ratings. Many do go from instructing straight into airlines, others move to smaller ATO then into Airlines. I would say go for it!
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Its good for putting food on the table and hours in the logbook until (if) the next job comes along.
Only problem with multi instructing is you can get stuck in there forever, but it never looks bad to have been an instructor especially with an airline when they want trainers.
Only problem with multi instructing is you can get stuck in there forever, but it never looks bad to have been an instructor especially with an airline when they want trainers.
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I agree with other posters on this thread, but feel that they may have missed an important caveat. Instructing experience is excellent, *but* it doesn't compete very well with charter time when it comes to applying to airlines or other charter operators. I've had quite a number of potential employers ask me quite directly how much of my time was instructing, clearly hoping for the answer to be "very little, but here's all the night frieght I've done". As it happens, I have quite a bit of instructing time, and there seems to be a prejudice against that in the Australian industry. I guess all I'm saying is that you may find it harder than you'd think to pick up a charter of an airline job if most of your experience is instructing.
That said, do I wish I hadn't done the instructing I have? Not at all - I'm certain I'm a better pilot for it, and it was very rewarding work. It would just be nice if there were a way to persuade potential employers that a high proportion of instructing time needn't be a liability.
If you think you will be a good and responsible instructor, go for it. If you think you'll hate teaching, or won't likely be much good at it, and will just be doing it for the hours, head for Kununurra or PNG instead. Whatever you choose, good luck! It's a tough job market out there, but hey - we wouldn't be doing it if we didn't love it, right?
That said, do I wish I hadn't done the instructing I have? Not at all - I'm certain I'm a better pilot for it, and it was very rewarding work. It would just be nice if there were a way to persuade potential employers that a high proportion of instructing time needn't be a liability.
If you think you will be a good and responsible instructor, go for it. If you think you'll hate teaching, or won't likely be much good at it, and will just be doing it for the hours, head for Kununurra or PNG instead. Whatever you choose, good luck! It's a tough job market out there, but hey - we wouldn't be doing it if we didn't love it, right?
Grandpa Aerotart
With all the caveats about brand new pilots instructing etc I believe the following...having 'instructed' for a VERY brief period early on.
A little bit of instructing is good. Unless you really want to be an instructor forever get out as quick as you can manage. Long term instructors are NOT experienced pilots they are experienced instructors.
My Instructors Rating and the 100 odd hrs of ab-initio/nav/aeros certainly made me a more obvious candidate for C&T later on...when I actually had the experience to pass on.
3 or 5 or 16000 hrs of ab inition/PPL/CPL Nav is NOT the same as 3 or 5 or 16000 hrs of single pilot VFR/IFR charter/RPT ops in a wide variety of single and multi engine/multi crew operations.
In a perfect world most instructors would have the 3 or 5 or 16000 hrs of wide ranging experience BEFORE becoming instructors but that is rare....outside of airline retirees (should be more of it...actively encouraged by CASA).
These are the reasons why many airlines/charter operators don't like lots of time instructing and they're not completely invalid reasons.
A little bit of instructing is good. Unless you really want to be an instructor forever get out as quick as you can manage. Long term instructors are NOT experienced pilots they are experienced instructors.
My Instructors Rating and the 100 odd hrs of ab-initio/nav/aeros certainly made me a more obvious candidate for C&T later on...when I actually had the experience to pass on.
3 or 5 or 16000 hrs of ab inition/PPL/CPL Nav is NOT the same as 3 or 5 or 16000 hrs of single pilot VFR/IFR charter/RPT ops in a wide variety of single and multi engine/multi crew operations.
In a perfect world most instructors would have the 3 or 5 or 16000 hrs of wide ranging experience BEFORE becoming instructors but that is rare....outside of airline retirees (should be more of it...actively encouraged by CASA).
These are the reasons why many airlines/charter operators don't like lots of time instructing and they're not completely invalid reasons.
Er...no. It's not a 'must' for check & training positions. The C&T system exists outside the instructor rating system. Check &/or training is an approval unrelated to holding (or have held) an instructor rating except that in recent times passing some form of teaching theory has been required. An instructor rating is (or was) accepted as an equivalent.
However, the above doesn't say that an instructing history wouldn't be useful, or even preferred/specified by any particular company, just that it's not mandated by CASA**.
**unless things have changed in the last few years.
However, the above doesn't say that an instructing history wouldn't be useful, or even preferred/specified by any particular company, just that it's not mandated by CASA**.
**unless things have changed in the last few years.
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Many years ago an instructor passed on this piece of wisdom when I asked him about accumulation of hours and what people would look for in hiring pilots.
He said " It's more a case of how many experiences you can accumulate than how many hours. You can end up with 1,000 hours experience or you can have 1 hour's experience a thousand times." Perhaps that is the issue when discussing the value of instructing.
Hardly a new concept but very succinctly put I thought.
Cheers
He said " It's more a case of how many experiences you can accumulate than how many hours. You can end up with 1,000 hours experience or you can have 1 hour's experience a thousand times." Perhaps that is the issue when discussing the value of instructing.
Hardly a new concept but very succinctly put I thought.
Cheers
Join Date: Feb 2004
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ginge, you are partly correct (for NZ)
Under 125 all training captains require an A, B or D cat:
125.567 Flight crew member instructor qualifications
Each holder of an air operator certificate shall ensure that any person
carrying out functions as an instructor in its flight crew member training
programme established under this Part—
(1) has satisfactorily completed the training required by this Subpart
to serve as pilot-in-command in operations; and
(2) holds a Category A, B, or D, flight instructor rating; and
(3) completes initial and recurrent training requirements applicable
to the instruction carried out.
Under 121 it is a different qualification all together.
Under 125 all training captains require an A, B or D cat:
125.567 Flight crew member instructor qualifications
Each holder of an air operator certificate shall ensure that any person
carrying out functions as an instructor in its flight crew member training
programme established under this Part—
(1) has satisfactorily completed the training required by this Subpart
to serve as pilot-in-command in operations; and
(2) holds a Category A, B, or D, flight instructor rating; and
(3) completes initial and recurrent training requirements applicable
to the instruction carried out.
Under 121 it is a different qualification all together.
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marpoo,
Instructing is ok if a Grade 1 with plenty of charter experience for Check and Training positions. Very valuable there.
Also work in CASA as Flying Ops Inspectors.
But to start out in instructing is IMHO a poor option for the individual concerned and also for their students.
I agree with Chimbu regarding having the experienced leading the inexperienced.
TJ
Instructing is ok if a Grade 1 with plenty of charter experience for Check and Training positions. Very valuable there.
Also work in CASA as Flying Ops Inspectors.
But to start out in instructing is IMHO a poor option for the individual concerned and also for their students.
I agree with Chimbu regarding having the experienced leading the inexperienced.
TJ
