Frosty Mornings vs Aircraft
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Frosty Mornings vs Aircraft
With the winter months in full swing thought it might be interesting to hear about pilots thoughts on frost covered aircraft.
So people what is your attitude towards flying an aircraft with frost on it? If you are like me and make a point of getting it off before heading skyward what methods do you use to remove it?
Obviously its a desciion to be made on the day, how you will remove this lift reducing, drag increasing substance i.e. at the risk of a layer of clear ice forming on the airframe would you still use the hose or rather brush it off?
Look forward to the comments
So people what is your attitude towards flying an aircraft with frost on it? If you are like me and make a point of getting it off before heading skyward what methods do you use to remove it?
Obviously its a desciion to be made on the day, how you will remove this lift reducing, drag increasing substance i.e. at the risk of a layer of clear ice forming on the airframe would you still use the hose or rather brush it off?
Look forward to the comments
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CAR 244 Safety precautions before take-off
(1) Immediately before taking-off on any flight, the pilot in command of
an aircraft shall:
(a) test the flight controls on the ground to the full limit of their
travel and make such other tests as are necessary to ensure that
those controls are functioning correctly;
(b) ensure that locking and safety devices are removed and that
hatches, doors and tank caps are secured; and
(c) ensure that all external surfaces of the aircraft are completely free
from frost and ice.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(1) Immediately before taking-off on any flight, the pilot in command of
an aircraft shall:
(a) test the flight controls on the ground to the full limit of their
travel and make such other tests as are necessary to ensure that
those controls are functioning correctly;
(b) ensure that locking and safety devices are removed and that
hatches, doors and tank caps are secured; and
(c) ensure that all external surfaces of the aircraft are completely free
from frost and ice.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
Depends on the skin and the aircraft and the owner:
Stand behind the wing,
pass a thick soft rope over the upper surface and back under the lower surface
pull on the rope, to-ing and fro-ing it whilst moving it back and forth along the wing.
Works better on fabric covered aircraft, high wing.
Stand behind the wing,
pass a thick soft rope over the upper surface and back under the lower surface
pull on the rope, to-ing and fro-ing it whilst moving it back and forth along the wing.
Works better on fabric covered aircraft, high wing.
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Try going into a hangar, find a spare piece of window perspex about 6 inches by 3, blunt off the edges and scrape the ice off with that (not the windscreen obviously!). Putting water on the wings doesn't seem to work too well early in the morning, you get to wiping the water off and it's frozen again!!! (funny to watch the students though for half an hour or so before they work that out
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1. Turn all heaters on at work on arrival
2. Have a coffee
3. Point aircraft into sun
4. Stand in front of wallheater 5-10mins
5. Fill buckets with hot water
6. Tell students where to pour it
7. Do own visual check b4 letting them race off
8. Resume heater position &/or have another coffee
Works well on those ball numbing CHCH mornings
2. Have a coffee
3. Point aircraft into sun
4. Stand in front of wallheater 5-10mins
5. Fill buckets with hot water
6. Tell students where to pour it
7. Do own visual check b4 letting them race off
8. Resume heater position &/or have another coffee
Works well on those ball numbing CHCH mornings
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Snapper_head
I hope you were joking.
There are innumerable instances of aircraft stalling due to the changed airflow characteristics caused by ice.
Yes it does happen here in the desert. In fact it happened this morning to one of our aircraft that was due to leave before dawn. The ice was such that it couldn't be cleared in time and the flight has now been re-scheduled.
I suggest that if you make a habit of taking off with ice covered wings then one day you will never have to worry about the problem, or any other problem, again.
I hope you were joking.
There are innumerable instances of aircraft stalling due to the changed airflow characteristics caused by ice.
Yes it does happen here in the desert. In fact it happened this morning to one of our aircraft that was due to leave before dawn. The ice was such that it couldn't be cleared in time and the flight has now been re-scheduled.
I suggest that if you make a habit of taking off with ice covered wings then one day you will never have to worry about the problem, or any other problem, again.
Frosted Airframe, Cold Engine, and Cold Battery
I always carry an empty 20L PVC drum with me, and use that to carry hot water from the town,farmhouse or wherever you can get it. I always carry a small PVC watering can too, which makes the aiming of the water a bit more accurate.
Transfer the warm to hot water into watercan, and pour onto the top of the wing about 30% back from the leading edge. Water then flows both ways, usually onto you too if standing under a high wing a/c! It's amazing just how well 20L of water cleans off a Cessna's wings. You do need to be sure that it hasn't refrozen on the wing or in the control surfaces.
With regard to that cold battery and engine, think about this. Fuel doesn't vaporise well in cold carbys, and a cold battery has less cranking power. The combination often means lots of frustrating cranking, and often flooding the carby, and flattening the battery.
Again - hot water to the rescue. Pour warm/hot water over the carby of your engine. It results fuel vaporising for a near instant start, and only requires a bit of uncowling in most a/c.
I've successfully used this on Cessna 152,170,180,182, and a Supercub. The 170 is a dream job - just slosh the water thru the aircooling 'hole' in the front of the enginecowl, which leads under the crankcase, and aft to the carby. It's been foolproof for over 10 years with my old bird.
Scaping ice off wings is a quick way to cause damage.
happy days,
I always carry an empty 20L PVC drum with me, and use that to carry hot water from the town,farmhouse or wherever you can get it. I always carry a small PVC watering can too, which makes the aiming of the water a bit more accurate.
Transfer the warm to hot water into watercan, and pour onto the top of the wing about 30% back from the leading edge. Water then flows both ways, usually onto you too if standing under a high wing a/c! It's amazing just how well 20L of water cleans off a Cessna's wings. You do need to be sure that it hasn't refrozen on the wing or in the control surfaces.
With regard to that cold battery and engine, think about this. Fuel doesn't vaporise well in cold carbys, and a cold battery has less cranking power. The combination often means lots of frustrating cranking, and often flooding the carby, and flattening the battery.
Again - hot water to the rescue. Pour warm/hot water over the carby of your engine. It results fuel vaporising for a near instant start, and only requires a bit of uncowling in most a/c.
I've successfully used this on Cessna 152,170,180,182, and a Supercub. The 170 is a dream job - just slosh the water thru the aircooling 'hole' in the front of the enginecowl, which leads under the crankcase, and aft to the carby. It's been foolproof for over 10 years with my old bird.
Scaping ice off wings is a quick way to cause damage.
happy days,
......Yes it does happen here in the desert. In fact it happened this morning to one of our aircraft that was due to leave before dawn. The ice was such that it couldn't be cleared in time and the flight has now been re-scheduled......
Talk soon.
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1Mclay
Good Post, most points are worthy, another thing to consider is Carby Ice in the mornings, any morning thats frosty like that will tend to get carby Ice so you should give it a good run of carby heat before takeoff to make sure you get full power for takeoff. Just a point to remember after youve taken off the ice on the wings!!
Good Post, most points are worthy, another thing to consider is Carby Ice in the mornings, any morning thats frosty like that will tend to get carby Ice so you should give it a good run of carby heat before takeoff to make sure you get full power for takeoff. Just a point to remember after youve taken off the ice on the wings!!
Angle of Attack
Not sure where you live in Aus but Carb Ice isn’t just a phenomena that occurs in the southern parts on icy mornings. It can be a daily occurrence in the tropics due high humidity levels. I lost count of the times I got carb ice in the 10 years I worked in FNQ and PNG. This belief by many that high ambient temperatures makes you immune to Carb Ice is a fallacy that has caught out many inexperienced pilot not familiar with tropical flying. A very good rule for all pilots that fly aircraft with carburetors is that if the ambient temp and dew point temp are close, expect carb ice.
Not sure where you live in Aus but Carb Ice isn’t just a phenomena that occurs in the southern parts on icy mornings. It can be a daily occurrence in the tropics due high humidity levels. I lost count of the times I got carb ice in the 10 years I worked in FNQ and PNG. This belief by many that high ambient temperatures makes you immune to Carb Ice is a fallacy that has caught out many inexperienced pilot not familiar with tropical flying. A very good rule for all pilots that fly aircraft with carburetors is that if the ambient temp and dew point temp are close, expect carb ice.
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Angle of Attack
Yes Its not uncommon to experience carb ice while taxing out to the runway particularly on these mornings where the temp and d.p. are close together...carb heat be thy friend!
1McLay
Yes Its not uncommon to experience carb ice while taxing out to the runway particularly on these mornings where the temp and d.p. are close together...carb heat be thy friend!
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A good burst of carb heat is always part of my line-up cx, no matter what the weather - but yes, it is particularly important any time you have high humidity and/or low temp.
As for getting ice off before taking to the skies, anyone who doesn't do this is just asking for trouble. I use good old hot water, but if it's extremely cold this won't do and a glycol/hot water mix should be used (particularly if you're away before dawn). A pressurised weed spray bottle works well. The glycol may also delay the formation of inflight icing.
As has been mentioned, there is a danger of water freezing controls prior to takeoff (whether it's from a deice attempt, or splashes during the taxi) - it's a good idea to do a 'controls full and free' check just prior to rolling.
Of course the best advise so far is from Woodend1 - get someone else to do it (he's not kidding about those ball numbing mornings in Christchurch either, thermals deffinately required)
As for getting ice off before taking to the skies, anyone who doesn't do this is just asking for trouble. I use good old hot water, but if it's extremely cold this won't do and a glycol/hot water mix should be used (particularly if you're away before dawn). A pressurised weed spray bottle works well. The glycol may also delay the formation of inflight icing.
As has been mentioned, there is a danger of water freezing controls prior to takeoff (whether it's from a deice attempt, or splashes during the taxi) - it's a good idea to do a 'controls full and free' check just prior to rolling.
Of course the best advise so far is from Woodend1 - get someone else to do it
(he's not kidding about those ball numbing mornings in Christchurch either, thermals deffinately required)
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404 Titan,
Yes point taken, high humidity and temperature can just as easily lead to carby icing as frosty mornings, although just as the thread was about frosty mornings i thought i'd just mention it was possible without going too much on carby icing probability charts and conditions and the like! cheers!
Yes point taken, high humidity and temperature can just as easily lead to carby icing as frosty mornings, although just as the thread was about frosty mornings i thought i'd just mention it was possible without going too much on carby icing probability charts and conditions and the like! cheers!
Another consideration which goes with winter in the south - the grade of oil to use. I see many operators using 50 weight oil all year round. Amazing that CASA used to get (before recent change to the AD) pedantic about going an hour over recommended oil change interval but few people take an interest in the recommended grade of oil.
(POM for my aeroplane states that oil change interval is at owner's discretion)
(POM for my aeroplane states that oil change interval is at owner's discretion)
If your boss is nice enough, soak the thing in Glycol, Peel the windscreen cover off and go flying.
If you boss is not nice. Go home and wait for the temp to rise above freezing and hope that someone else has done the flight for you.
The only other way we use is covering it with warm water, only problem is you have to have the aircraft in the sun so it won't re-freeze.
If you boss is not nice. Go home and wait for the temp to rise above freezing and hope that someone else has done the flight for you.
The only other way we use is covering it with warm water, only problem is you have to have the aircraft in the sun so it won't re-freeze.
