Air Ngukurr chief pilot in court
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Air Ngukurr chief pilot in court
Northern Territory News Wed 27 Aug 2003
No power in plane
Court told electrics faulty
By Bob Watt
Court Reporter
The chief pilot of an NT airline told an inexperienced pilot to fly an aircraft that had no electrical power, a court heard yesterday.
Hone Pihama Edwards, 41, also allegedly told the pilot not to report the problem.
Pilot Benn Vandenberg, 24, told Darwin Magistrates Court he landed the Cessna at Katherine and again at an airfield near Noonamah without power to operate the aircraft’s wing flaps, radio and navigation equipment.
But Edwards would say the electrics were working and deny that he told the pilot not the record the problem, defence lawyer John Langmead said. Edwards, 41, of Cullen Bay, Darwin, pleaded not guilty to charges that he aided pilot Mr Vandenberg to commit an offence by:
Being aware of a defect on an aircraft and not entering it on the maintenance release sheet.
Allowing a pilot to begin a commercial flight without ensuring the aircraft was safe to fly.
Federal prosecutor Jack Lewis said the incident happened on May 2 last year.
Licensed aircraft maintenance engineer Michael Amiett said he operated the flaps at Noonamah and found the electrics to be normal. Another pilot later flew the Ngukurr Air aircraft to Darwin.
The hearing, before Magistrate John Lowndes, continues today.
No power in plane
Court told electrics faulty
By Bob Watt
Court Reporter
The chief pilot of an NT airline told an inexperienced pilot to fly an aircraft that had no electrical power, a court heard yesterday.
Hone Pihama Edwards, 41, also allegedly told the pilot not to report the problem.
Pilot Benn Vandenberg, 24, told Darwin Magistrates Court he landed the Cessna at Katherine and again at an airfield near Noonamah without power to operate the aircraft’s wing flaps, radio and navigation equipment.
But Edwards would say the electrics were working and deny that he told the pilot not the record the problem, defence lawyer John Langmead said. Edwards, 41, of Cullen Bay, Darwin, pleaded not guilty to charges that he aided pilot Mr Vandenberg to commit an offence by:
Being aware of a defect on an aircraft and not entering it on the maintenance release sheet.
Allowing a pilot to begin a commercial flight without ensuring the aircraft was safe to fly.
Federal prosecutor Jack Lewis said the incident happened on May 2 last year.
Licensed aircraft maintenance engineer Michael Amiett said he operated the flaps at Noonamah and found the electrics to be normal. Another pilot later flew the Ngukurr Air aircraft to Darwin.
The hearing, before Magistrate John Lowndes, continues today.
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Just like the ol days...
I am sure the Tillair boys of days gone by could relate to some very similar stories.
Cash box, tool box, see you in 6 months....Numbalwar here I come!
Cash box, tool box, see you in 6 months....Numbalwar here I come!
Props are for boats!
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ABC,
The same said company is operating an RPT service to the TIWI Islands with a EMB110 Bandit. So it may still be pertanent in this Forum.
Regards
Sheep
The same said company is operating an RPT service to the TIWI Islands with a EMB110 Bandit. So it may still be pertanent in this Forum.
Regards
Sheep
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gottom 2 dollar,
It’s people like you we don’t need in GA. Are you stating that you have flown knowingly with a flat battery?
Sheep Guts,
What RPT?
The company hasn’t got any RPT approvals; they call it RPC (Regular Public Charter) it’s a poor mans RPT licence.
It’s people like you we don’t need in GA. Are you stating that you have flown knowingly with a flat battery?
Sheep Guts,
What RPT?
The company hasn’t got any RPT approvals; they call it RPC (Regular Public Charter) it’s a poor mans RPT licence.
Props are for boats!
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Well ok RPC fair enough but the paying pax dont know that they are travelling with RPT wannabees.
Last edited by Sheep Guts; 2nd Sep 2003 at 07:51.
PPRuNe's Paramedic
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Benn doesnt know me from a bar of the proverbial soap but I have this to say to him....
Congratulations to Benn for sticking up for himself and standing in one of the most intimidating positions known to pilots (the witness stand) and not backing down under considerable fire.
Pilots like him have to well supported to improve the conditions and safety mentality within the industry...
Congratulations to Benn for sticking up for himself and standing in one of the most intimidating positions known to pilots (the witness stand) and not backing down under considerable fire.
Pilots like him have to well supported to improve the conditions and safety mentality within the industry...
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Trust me I know. I was working for the dude at the time and also 'stood up' We all took some coaxing but Benn did stand up at the time.
He did have a handheld true. But it was a UHF handheld, Honks also had a UHF handheld ,and he was making radio calls on behalf of Benn from another aircraft he was in on the ground.
I dont see how he can deny that when they have the tapes from Tindal MBZ of the whole thing. Unless they are not admisable or something like that.
I cant wait for the findings/verdict. It will have ramifications for GA, for the better or worse. If he slips through well that kind of thing will become all the more common.
He did have a handheld true. But it was a UHF handheld, Honks also had a UHF handheld ,and he was making radio calls on behalf of Benn from another aircraft he was in on the ground.
I dont see how he can deny that when they have the tapes from Tindal MBZ of the whole thing. Unless they are not admisable or something like that.
I cant wait for the findings/verdict. It will have ramifications for GA, for the better or worse. If he slips through well that kind of thing will become all the more common.
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PROPS!!
mate Ididnt depart with a flat battery,I developed a flat battery mid flight,So I turned every thing off and only turned the radio on to make all station broadcasts when changeing FIS boundarys.
What are you going too do land in the middle of no where?And if you had a hand held radio whats the fuss to get a a/c back to base for repairs.You conserve your battery,Even if this means pumping your gear down (C210)Gear ops draws lots of current from your batery.None of these actions are puting anyone at risk.Reminds of a instructor at parafield who had a alternator prob.I asked him if he reset the alternator in flight?His words ,No way !I didnt whant the engine to stop!!!Well I couldnt believe my ears.A quick demo and his fears were put to rest.
PS I like it here in GA!!
I do remember being asked by the then C/P about why the gear in his chieftan wouldnt retract fully.I told him to check the gear resevoir,He said that he checked it and it was full.I checked the resevoir from inside the nose locker(the only way on chietans)And it was below the sight glass.He had in fact checked the brake resevoir on top of the nose!!!Didnt know his A/C to well
mate Ididnt depart with a flat battery,I developed a flat battery mid flight,So I turned every thing off and only turned the radio on to make all station broadcasts when changeing FIS boundarys.
What are you going too do land in the middle of no where?And if you had a hand held radio whats the fuss to get a a/c back to base for repairs.You conserve your battery,Even if this means pumping your gear down (C210)Gear ops draws lots of current from your batery.None of these actions are puting anyone at risk.Reminds of a instructor at parafield who had a alternator prob.I asked him if he reset the alternator in flight?His words ,No way !I didnt whant the engine to stop!!!Well I couldnt believe my ears.A quick demo and his fears were put to rest.
PS I like it here in GA!!
I do remember being asked by the then C/P about why the gear in his chieftan wouldnt retract fully.I told him to check the gear resevoir,He said that he checked it and it was full.I checked the resevoir from inside the nose locker(the only way on chietans)And it was below the sight glass.He had in fact checked the brake resevoir on top of the nose!!!Didnt know his A/C to well
Props are for boats!
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Funny how operators. Especially in the bush cut at everything, to save money. Thats all it is, to save a buck. It doesnt stop gentlemen with GA, trying to save a buck, will touch your career all the way to the top. The bean counters in the Airlines determine your Future nothing else.
I know its a Long flight from Noonamah to NGU, even longer drive sometimes not even doable. My question is for a company that should be as economically stable as $$$$$$Air, they should HAVE Maintenance back up in place, They should have spares on site in NGU . Well atleast Battery Acid. Weather a new battery and or new alternator/ Generator was required, it should have been done before repositioning the Aircraft. If this case involves CASA, youll find that it will be the corrective action $$$$$$Air must take.
Now you cant tell me that they couldnt wait for an Engineer and parts to arrive from Darwin , maybe not flown by themselves , but by the RPT.
Its inexcusable really, but its taken for granted and its inbred in alot of operators minds "that its ok". Many operators who have worked in the same region have done the same over the years.
They will say its "normal practise". But when the Pilot has to make a landing somewhere for no reason, and the aircraft is destroyed, or the occupants perish. It wont be the Higher Staff pressure, or the Chief Pilot that gets the blame, it will be the "Pilot-CIn-Command"allways.
If you fly anything that is below par in maintennace. Or if your a Pilot who knowingly flys a substandard machine. You are asking for it. What if you had a inflight fire? What if the weather got bad quickly as it can in the Top End?
Ya see guys its mind set the Engineeers are used to it , the Operators are use to it, the Chief Pilots are used to it. TO ERASE THIS MIND SET WILL REQUIRE ALOT OF RE-EDUCATION. REMMEMBER THE AS PIC, THE BUCK LITREALLY STOPS WITH YOU AND YOUR DECISION TO FLY. IF IT DISPLEASES THE OTHER PARTIES , WELL LET IT THEN. BETTER TO WRITE A LETTER TO THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY AFTER DECLINING THE JOB, THAN BE A STATISTIC.
NAUGHTY NAUGHTY NAUGHTY TO ALL CONCERNED.........
REGARDS
SHEEP
I know its a Long flight from Noonamah to NGU, even longer drive sometimes not even doable. My question is for a company that should be as economically stable as $$$$$$Air, they should HAVE Maintenance back up in place, They should have spares on site in NGU . Well atleast Battery Acid. Weather a new battery and or new alternator/ Generator was required, it should have been done before repositioning the Aircraft. If this case involves CASA, youll find that it will be the corrective action $$$$$$Air must take.
Now you cant tell me that they couldnt wait for an Engineer and parts to arrive from Darwin , maybe not flown by themselves , but by the RPT.
Its inexcusable really, but its taken for granted and its inbred in alot of operators minds "that its ok". Many operators who have worked in the same region have done the same over the years.
They will say its "normal practise". But when the Pilot has to make a landing somewhere for no reason, and the aircraft is destroyed, or the occupants perish. It wont be the Higher Staff pressure, or the Chief Pilot that gets the blame, it will be the "Pilot-CIn-Command"allways.
If you fly anything that is below par in maintennace. Or if your a Pilot who knowingly flys a substandard machine. You are asking for it. What if you had a inflight fire? What if the weather got bad quickly as it can in the Top End?
Ya see guys its mind set the Engineeers are used to it , the Operators are use to it, the Chief Pilots are used to it. TO ERASE THIS MIND SET WILL REQUIRE ALOT OF RE-EDUCATION. REMMEMBER THE AS PIC, THE BUCK LITREALLY STOPS WITH YOU AND YOUR DECISION TO FLY. IF IT DISPLEASES THE OTHER PARTIES , WELL LET IT THEN. BETTER TO WRITE A LETTER TO THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY AFTER DECLINING THE JOB, THAN BE A STATISTIC.
NAUGHTY NAUGHTY NAUGHTY TO ALL CONCERNED.........
REGARDS
SHEEP
Last edited by Sheep Guts; 1st Sep 2003 at 09:13.
I'm fascinated with this comment:
"The company hasn’t got any RPT approvals; they call it RPC (Regular Public Charter) it’s a poor mans RPT licence."
Can someone enlighten me on this category of operation?
"The company hasn’t got any RPT approvals; they call it RPC (Regular Public Charter) it’s a poor mans RPT licence."
Can someone enlighten me on this category of operation?
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Meanwhile back at the ranch.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Northern Territory News – Sat 30 August 2003
Ring of truth in pilot’s story
Prosecutor tells court
By Bob Watt
Court Reporter
A pilot’s story about being told to fly an aircraft that had lost electrical power, and his chief pilot saying to tell no-one about it, had a “ring of truth”, a federal prosecutor said yesterday.
The chief pilot’s counsel countered that the young, inexperienced pilot made up the story to cover himself after mismanaging a transient event in flight.
Federal prosecutor Jack Lewis and defence counsel John Langmead SC were making final submissions in a case brought against Ngukurr Air former chief pilot Hone Pihama Edwards.
Edwards, 41, has pleaded not guilty to aviation charges of not recording an aircraft defect and not ensuring an aircraft was safe to fly.
Last night Magistrate John Lowndes reserved his decision until Thursday.
Pilot Benn Vandenberg, 24, told Darwin Magistrates Court the Cessna 210 lost electrical power on a flight from Tindal Airport (Katherine) on May 2 last year and he turned back.
At Tindal, Edwards had started the aircraft with a power cart and told him to fly it to a maintenance company at an airstrip near Noonamah, south of Darwin.
Mr Lewis said Mr Vandenberg’s evidence that Edwards said to him, “Hey Benn, better keep this between ourselves”, and being given a hand-held radio to help him fly out of the controlled zone around Tindal “has a ring of truth”.
Mr Langmead said it was a “reasonable hypothesis” that Mr Vandenberg, having demonstrated his inexperience by failing to understand the aircraft’s electrical system, created the story to cover his shortcomings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Northern Territory News – Sat 30 August 2003
Ring of truth in pilot’s story
Prosecutor tells court
By Bob Watt
Court Reporter
A pilot’s story about being told to fly an aircraft that had lost electrical power, and his chief pilot saying to tell no-one about it, had a “ring of truth”, a federal prosecutor said yesterday.
The chief pilot’s counsel countered that the young, inexperienced pilot made up the story to cover himself after mismanaging a transient event in flight.
Federal prosecutor Jack Lewis and defence counsel John Langmead SC were making final submissions in a case brought against Ngukurr Air former chief pilot Hone Pihama Edwards.
Edwards, 41, has pleaded not guilty to aviation charges of not recording an aircraft defect and not ensuring an aircraft was safe to fly.
Last night Magistrate John Lowndes reserved his decision until Thursday.
Pilot Benn Vandenberg, 24, told Darwin Magistrates Court the Cessna 210 lost electrical power on a flight from Tindal Airport (Katherine) on May 2 last year and he turned back.
At Tindal, Edwards had started the aircraft with a power cart and told him to fly it to a maintenance company at an airstrip near Noonamah, south of Darwin.
Mr Lewis said Mr Vandenberg’s evidence that Edwards said to him, “Hey Benn, better keep this between ourselves”, and being given a hand-held radio to help him fly out of the controlled zone around Tindal “has a ring of truth”.
Mr Langmead said it was a “reasonable hypothesis” that Mr Vandenberg, having demonstrated his inexperience by failing to understand the aircraft’s electrical system, created the story to cover his shortcomings.
Last edited by MIss Behaviour; 1st Sep 2003 at 14:02.
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Seems to me someone was making up nasty little stories to cover up his ineptitude as a pilot.
Good to see the little prancer chased out of court with his tale between his legs,(and he thought CASA gave a rats about him).
I just cant stand these little tossy pilots who, if they cant get everything their own way, are willing to blame everyone else for their career misfortunes.
I hear there is another bunch of these guys waiting in the wings all wound up and ready to unleash their vengence on those people who obviously must be to blame for their worldly problems.
Why dont you all get a life and try and make something of yourselves.
Sweet dreams children
Good to see the little prancer chased out of court with his tale between his legs,(and he thought CASA gave a rats about him).
I just cant stand these little tossy pilots who, if they cant get everything their own way, are willing to blame everyone else for their career misfortunes.
I hear there is another bunch of these guys waiting in the wings all wound up and ready to unleash their vengence on those people who obviously must be to blame for their worldly problems.
Why dont you all get a life and try and make something of yourselves.
Sweet dreams children