New Here----Question
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New Here----Question
Hi!
This is my first post here so I don't really know if I'm posting in the right place.
I am 18 years old and pursuing a career as a regional airline pilot. I have a high school diploma but I am not going to college, it's just not for me. Is it necessary to have a college degree to get hired by a regional airline? I am currently working towards my PPL and I will be starting Commercial training soon. I am willing to move anywhere, including overseas if necessary to find an airline job once I complete my training.
This is my first post here so I don't really know if I'm posting in the right place.
I am 18 years old and pursuing a career as a regional airline pilot. I have a high school diploma but I am not going to college, it's just not for me. Is it necessary to have a college degree to get hired by a regional airline? I am currently working towards my PPL and I will be starting Commercial training soon. I am willing to move anywhere, including overseas if necessary to find an airline job once I complete my training.
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How do I say this...
...without sounding like your dad?
Son, you've got a good head on your shoulders but don't screw up your life like I did.
Heh. Now that that's outta the way:
Look. How do you know college isn't for you? You've never been.
You probably think it's just like high school. Yes and no.
First of all, not all of the instructors hate the students.
Second, in college, there are more chicks than dudes.
Third: More chicks than dudes.
Fourth: It's a great opportunity to network. This is a benefit that's realized many years down the road--but look at it this way:
The main reason that most people aren't willing to invest the time or money in college is because of a perceived lack of any sort of return on that investment.
They always say, If I just take the money I'd spend on college and spend it on ratings I'd be employable much sooner.
That's a true statement, but it's really short-sighted, because at some point you're gonna encounter a wall where all of your experience won't get you any further. Only a degree will get you past that hump.
Now. As silly as it seems, a degree in economics or history or engineering or whatever, isn't going to help make you a better pilot--but the degree is going to be required for a very long time--as long as the supply exceeds the demand for pilots the requirements and competition will always be stiff.
But you say you just want to fly for a regional. Sure, you're 18 now, no wife or kids (probably) or house. A career at the regionals seems perfectly acceptable right now.
And right now it is acceptable.
But this industry is so dynamic there is no telling what it's going to look like in 10 years. Twenty years. In 40 years when you're starting to think about retirement, with kids who want to go to college, with a wife who wants to retire herself...where will you be with your high school education and 20,000 hours of flight time?
Where will you be? Forty years old, attending night school while working a full time job? Forget it!!
College can be a lot of garbage in/garbage out but it can also help to teach you time management skills; critical thinking; good study habits (crucial in airline groundschools where they use the "Take a Drink from the Firehose" method of teaching).
Time and money invested in higher education is never wasted.
Never.
Even if you were to be a "C" student in the Secretarial Arts Dept at your local college you would be a lot better off in the competition for very scarce airline jobs.
Don't be fooled: There are lowtimers getting jobs at the regionals even today.
But guess what? Nobody likes flying with them.
Nobody likes flying with a lowtimer in a fast turbine airplane when every minute counts--and that's when you're "on time"!!
When the flight is late you better have your ducks in a row and I mean RIGHT NOW. Right now, when it's dark; and you're tired; and the Capt is cussing...This is no time to ask what authorizes you to use lower than standard take off minima.
Huh? I thought there were no dumb questions especially when safety of flight is involved.
Think again. "No Dumb Questions" is a luxury only in college. Once you're on the line you need to have the answer before the Capt asks the question.
My advice to you, before I get off on a huge (I mean really huge) rant is:
1) Accept the fact that for the rest of your career you are essentially a professional student. Sure you'll have the opportunity to teach a little--but if you're not always learning then you're a "know-it-all" and it's time to get out of the business because Aviation will eat you alive.
2) Enroll yourself in the best technical degree program you can manage. If not technical, then who cares? Just get a four year degree. I know, I know...It's just an elitist carry-over from the military glory days...and that's just a relic from hundreds of years of naval tradition...but that's the way it works.
3) Once in college, work hard and play hard. You must reward your efforts: Swill wine, woo women, make lots of good friends--Friends for life. Friends that will help you out when this crazy industry takes its next nose dive.
4) Always encourge and inspire others to levels of performance they themselves didn't think they could attain.
Finally, I wish you peace and success.
Welcome to Pprune.
You'll learn a lot here.
Son, you've got a good head on your shoulders but don't screw up your life like I did.
Heh. Now that that's outta the way:
Look. How do you know college isn't for you? You've never been.
You probably think it's just like high school. Yes and no.
First of all, not all of the instructors hate the students.
Second, in college, there are more chicks than dudes.
Third: More chicks than dudes.
Fourth: It's a great opportunity to network. This is a benefit that's realized many years down the road--but look at it this way:
The main reason that most people aren't willing to invest the time or money in college is because of a perceived lack of any sort of return on that investment.
They always say, If I just take the money I'd spend on college and spend it on ratings I'd be employable much sooner.
That's a true statement, but it's really short-sighted, because at some point you're gonna encounter a wall where all of your experience won't get you any further. Only a degree will get you past that hump.
Now. As silly as it seems, a degree in economics or history or engineering or whatever, isn't going to help make you a better pilot--but the degree is going to be required for a very long time--as long as the supply exceeds the demand for pilots the requirements and competition will always be stiff.
But you say you just want to fly for a regional. Sure, you're 18 now, no wife or kids (probably) or house. A career at the regionals seems perfectly acceptable right now.
And right now it is acceptable.
But this industry is so dynamic there is no telling what it's going to look like in 10 years. Twenty years. In 40 years when you're starting to think about retirement, with kids who want to go to college, with a wife who wants to retire herself...where will you be with your high school education and 20,000 hours of flight time?
Where will you be? Forty years old, attending night school while working a full time job? Forget it!!
College can be a lot of garbage in/garbage out but it can also help to teach you time management skills; critical thinking; good study habits (crucial in airline groundschools where they use the "Take a Drink from the Firehose" method of teaching).
Time and money invested in higher education is never wasted.
Never.
Even if you were to be a "C" student in the Secretarial Arts Dept at your local college you would be a lot better off in the competition for very scarce airline jobs.
Don't be fooled: There are lowtimers getting jobs at the regionals even today.
But guess what? Nobody likes flying with them.
Nobody likes flying with a lowtimer in a fast turbine airplane when every minute counts--and that's when you're "on time"!!
When the flight is late you better have your ducks in a row and I mean RIGHT NOW. Right now, when it's dark; and you're tired; and the Capt is cussing...This is no time to ask what authorizes you to use lower than standard take off minima.
Huh? I thought there were no dumb questions especially when safety of flight is involved.
Think again. "No Dumb Questions" is a luxury only in college. Once you're on the line you need to have the answer before the Capt asks the question.
My advice to you, before I get off on a huge (I mean really huge) rant is:
1) Accept the fact that for the rest of your career you are essentially a professional student. Sure you'll have the opportunity to teach a little--but if you're not always learning then you're a "know-it-all" and it's time to get out of the business because Aviation will eat you alive.
2) Enroll yourself in the best technical degree program you can manage. If not technical, then who cares? Just get a four year degree. I know, I know...It's just an elitist carry-over from the military glory days...and that's just a relic from hundreds of years of naval tradition...but that's the way it works.
3) Once in college, work hard and play hard. You must reward your efforts: Swill wine, woo women, make lots of good friends--Friends for life. Friends that will help you out when this crazy industry takes its next nose dive.
4) Always encourge and inspire others to levels of performance they themselves didn't think they could attain.
Finally, I wish you peace and success.
Welcome to Pprune.
You'll learn a lot here.
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Ocean,
All I can say is DITTO what ZeroZero wrote.
College is a whole lot different than high school, and when push comes to shove that college degree will become a determining factor how or which direction your career goes.
I felt the same way you did about college so I went into the USMC, did my four years. After I got out I went to full time college, worked full time, and supported a family, all in the effort to make myself more marketable.
The only thing that I haven't accomplished yet is obtaining my pilots license, but hey I do the next thing better, I'm an Air Traffic Controller. Could I have accomplished everything that I've done so far without a college degree, NO!
You sound like you have established good goals, and that you are willing to work hard to obtain your goals, but your problem is that you lack direction in how to best obtain them. Weigh all your options, make a list of the pluses and minuses, talk with people that are already in the industry (don't leave out talking to military pilots).
As ZeroZero said the aviation industry is in a huge flux, there are a lot of high time pilots looking in from the other side of the fence, wondering when or if they will get rehired. Make your career path decisions wisely and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Mike
NATCA FWA
All I can say is DITTO what ZeroZero wrote.
College is a whole lot different than high school, and when push comes to shove that college degree will become a determining factor how or which direction your career goes.
I felt the same way you did about college so I went into the USMC, did my four years. After I got out I went to full time college, worked full time, and supported a family, all in the effort to make myself more marketable.
The only thing that I haven't accomplished yet is obtaining my pilots license, but hey I do the next thing better, I'm an Air Traffic Controller. Could I have accomplished everything that I've done so far without a college degree, NO!
You sound like you have established good goals, and that you are willing to work hard to obtain your goals, but your problem is that you lack direction in how to best obtain them. Weigh all your options, make a list of the pluses and minuses, talk with people that are already in the industry (don't leave out talking to military pilots).
As ZeroZero said the aviation industry is in a huge flux, there are a lot of high time pilots looking in from the other side of the fence, wondering when or if they will get rehired. Make your career path decisions wisely and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Mike
NATCA FWA
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Ocean,
Do yourself a favour and go to college and do something with your life constructive.
The truth is that Aviation is a really hard place to be in right now and the way it is going in the USA you are probably better off working at home depot, most pilots are heading that way anyway.
I love to fly and I am still in aviation, it is a bug in me that I cannot control but give yourself the college and have something to fall back on if your avaition dreams don't come true.
Trust me son, you need to have an alternate plan ready for when you have a wife and couple of kids and one day your 777 job at a major airline closes its doors and there are thousands out on the street trying to fill the few jobs out there.
Good Luck and if your heart is in it
"GO FOR IT!" but be smart and have the back up.
Do yourself a favour and go to college and do something with your life constructive.
The truth is that Aviation is a really hard place to be in right now and the way it is going in the USA you are probably better off working at home depot, most pilots are heading that way anyway.
I love to fly and I am still in aviation, it is a bug in me that I cannot control but give yourself the college and have something to fall back on if your avaition dreams don't come true.
Trust me son, you need to have an alternate plan ready for when you have a wife and couple of kids and one day your 777 job at a major airline closes its doors and there are thousands out on the street trying to fill the few jobs out there.
Good Luck and if your heart is in it
"GO FOR IT!" but be smart and have the back up.
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Couldn't have said it better myself ZeroZero et al....(yeah learnt that et al thing at college reading shakespeare)...see not all of it's useless. LOL.....is it?? (only kidding) no, man, just go to college.
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I agree with all the above. I have 2 college degrees and numerous professional training courses/certificates to my credit, but still occassionally run into roadblocks.
If there is one thing I can impress upon you, its this: Having a college degree today is like having a high school diploma 20 years ago---it's not only necessary, but EXPECTED.
Plus, if aviation does'nt work out, you can use it to fall back on.
If there is one thing I can impress upon you, its this: Having a college degree today is like having a high school diploma 20 years ago---it's not only necessary, but EXPECTED.
Plus, if aviation does'nt work out, you can use it to fall back on.
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Ocean:
Join the Army. You might qualify for WO candidate school. Learn to fly free and have alot of fun! You will be out by the time you are 25, probably with a degree on Uncle Sam.
Join the Army. You might qualify for WO candidate school. Learn to fly free and have alot of fun! You will be out by the time you are 25, probably with a degree on Uncle Sam.
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The above seems to hit the nail right on the head.
Though if i had my time again i might consider not doing an undergrad!.
Instead spend the money on ratings, work as an instructor etc....work your way into a regional after some 3-4 years (we hope the industry will be doing a little better by then). Now not only will you be were you want to be but you've actually done 2 years or so of uni without even knowing it. With 4 years (approx 2000hrs flyin) of magical industry experience you may find that many aviation degree programs will give you many exemptions/credit (upto a couple years worth) or even let you jump straight into a 2 year masters program!. You can then do this part time whilst edging closer to the left seat of your CRJ!.
Too easy, politicians and such get honorary doctorates every so often, its a similar process. At the uni i went to a senior 747 capt was given his doctorate, then a professorship, without attending a single lecture (of course he had an equivalent bucket load of knowledge and many achievements). I know the airlines want a 4 year degree but how can they complain with a 2 year postgrad!.
Time spent learning isnt a waste, nor is time spent in the industry. Remember, your never to old to go to college and learn.
More importantly i'd say with a bit of life exposure in your mid 20's you'll be more sauve and comfortable round the ladies, put an individual like this in amongst 18yr olds and he'll have a field day. You'll appreciate the young things a whole lot more too!.
All this being said it might be easier when your younger though, for instance as you get long in the tooth your olds might not foot the bill.
cheers and beers.
Though if i had my time again i might consider not doing an undergrad!.
Instead spend the money on ratings, work as an instructor etc....work your way into a regional after some 3-4 years (we hope the industry will be doing a little better by then). Now not only will you be were you want to be but you've actually done 2 years or so of uni without even knowing it. With 4 years (approx 2000hrs flyin) of magical industry experience you may find that many aviation degree programs will give you many exemptions/credit (upto a couple years worth) or even let you jump straight into a 2 year masters program!. You can then do this part time whilst edging closer to the left seat of your CRJ!.
Too easy, politicians and such get honorary doctorates every so often, its a similar process. At the uni i went to a senior 747 capt was given his doctorate, then a professorship, without attending a single lecture (of course he had an equivalent bucket load of knowledge and many achievements). I know the airlines want a 4 year degree but how can they complain with a 2 year postgrad!.
Time spent learning isnt a waste, nor is time spent in the industry. Remember, your never to old to go to college and learn.
More importantly i'd say with a bit of life exposure in your mid 20's you'll be more sauve and comfortable round the ladies, put an individual like this in amongst 18yr olds and he'll have a field day. You'll appreciate the young things a whole lot more too!.
All this being said it might be easier when your younger though, for instance as you get long in the tooth your olds might not foot the bill.
cheers and beers.
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Ocean son
Let me give you a bit of advise...
Me: Over 12300 Hours.
Experienced on several Wide-bodies and Type rated on A320, 757, DC8 and C550.
Degree in computer science that I picked up AFTER one of my airlines went out of business in the early 90's.
So, here's my advise...
GO TO COLLEGE! Major in something other than aviation, so when your airlines bottom falls out, you have other choices.
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Me: Over 12300 Hours.
Experienced on several Wide-bodies and Type rated on A320, 757, DC8 and C550.
Degree in computer science that I picked up AFTER one of my airlines went out of business in the early 90's.
So, here's my advise...
GO TO COLLEGE! Major in something other than aviation, so when your airlines bottom falls out, you have other choices.
"What could possibly go wrong?"
