USA Pilot Shortage
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Ignition Override -
I don't understand how you can say the industy wasn't deregulated. Air carriers can fly anywhere they want to within the U.S. It wasn't like that prior to 1978. I got my first commuter job in 1978 due to deregulation.
Did all regulation go away? Of course not. FAA, IRS, SEC, etc, etc still exist. Slots have the largest impact on carriers ability to fly into whatever city they choose(ie JFK in 2008....). But the airline business is amazingly different than it was in the 70's due to deregulation.
If you want to understand what the business was before deregulation consider the current process to gain international flying rights. You apply, along with many other carriers and eventually the government says - "you win, everyone else loses."
Flew EMB-110's 1981-1982.
I don't understand how you can say the industy wasn't deregulated. Air carriers can fly anywhere they want to within the U.S. It wasn't like that prior to 1978. I got my first commuter job in 1978 due to deregulation.
Did all regulation go away? Of course not. FAA, IRS, SEC, etc, etc still exist. Slots have the largest impact on carriers ability to fly into whatever city they choose(ie JFK in 2008....). But the airline business is amazingly different than it was in the 70's due to deregulation.
If you want to understand what the business was before deregulation consider the current process to gain international flying rights. You apply, along with many other carriers and eventually the government says - "you win, everyone else loses."
Flew EMB-110's 1981-1982.
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atiuta,
Nobody was challenging you as to whether Emirates was easy to get into or not. I can tell you this though...the CX interview was a #ell of a lot harder than the EK interview (did both).
get off the high horse dude...more of us Americans are coming over to the UAE (Halliburton just relocated to Dubai, etc)...get used to it.
Nobody was challenging you as to whether Emirates was easy to get into or not. I can tell you this though...the CX interview was a #ell of a lot harder than the EK interview (did both).
get off the high horse dude...more of us Americans are coming over to the UAE (Halliburton just relocated to Dubai, etc)...get used to it.
misd-agin:
True- it was mostly deregulated, but it just seems to me that with so much inside maneuvering by the PBGC, ATSB etc, not to mention White House agendas pushing on the DOT (FAA), which together with the various commercial (don't forget about the ATA-the airline Upper Mgmt 'union') forces of deregulation in recent years are almost designed to crush labor, despite the growth of many jobs in the early 80s. The ability of corporations to grossly under-fund pensions has appeared to be another element to exploit labor to the benefit of stockholder's/Upper Mgmt.
The terrible events at USAir seemed to reflect this almost overwhelming stacking of the decks against labor staff.
Former Professor Alfred Kahn's bizarre and-at best-murky theories about the benefits of deregulation are not only mostly theoretical and abstract but he 'allegedly'
received either
TAC or New York Air stock (or a seat on the Board of Dir.? )before
deregulation was set up. If it could be proven, that would have been a major conflict of interest.
The lack of a national seniority system by ALPA decades ago has allowed each pilot group to be separately conquered-each airline's pilot group mostly stands alone. The net effect is similar to having a different union at each company.
I'm not so sure that the Dereg. Act's policy to give preference to laid off staff
was effective. Or was it? There seem to many Braniff pilots who got interviews fairly quickly with majors. If the majors were required to allow Braniff and others into interviews (allowing them to be hired first) in the short-term, then that was a very good thing.
Pardon the long-winded sermon up there.
That Bandit was a really good plane. Wish I could still fly one a few hours a month. Could 'sync.' those props easier than 'those' on a P & W JT8D-9.
True- it was mostly deregulated, but it just seems to me that with so much inside maneuvering by the PBGC, ATSB etc, not to mention White House agendas pushing on the DOT (FAA), which together with the various commercial (don't forget about the ATA-the airline Upper Mgmt 'union') forces of deregulation in recent years are almost designed to crush labor, despite the growth of many jobs in the early 80s. The ability of corporations to grossly under-fund pensions has appeared to be another element to exploit labor to the benefit of stockholder's/Upper Mgmt.
The terrible events at USAir seemed to reflect this almost overwhelming stacking of the decks against labor staff.
Former Professor Alfred Kahn's bizarre and-at best-murky theories about the benefits of deregulation are not only mostly theoretical and abstract but he 'allegedly'
received either TAC or New York Air stock (or a seat on the Board of Dir.? )before
deregulation was set up. If it could be proven, that would have been a major conflict of interest.
The lack of a national seniority system by ALPA decades ago has allowed each pilot group to be separately conquered-each airline's pilot group mostly stands alone. The net effect is similar to having a different union at each company.
I'm not so sure that the Dereg. Act's policy to give preference to laid off staff
was effective. Or was it? There seem to many Braniff pilots who got interviews fairly quickly with majors. If the majors were required to allow Braniff and others into interviews (allowing them to be hired first) in the short-term, then that was a very good thing.
Pardon the long-winded sermon up there.
That Bandit was a really good plane. Wish I could still fly one a few hours a month. Could 'sync.' those props easier than 'those' on a P & W JT8D-9.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 8th Dec 2007 at 14:21.
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Hi!
Deregulated? No. We're still feeling the effects of deregulation, even now, because it was not done.
Deregulation would've meant that, on the date of deregulation, NO airline would have any route rights, gate rights, or landing slot rights.
On that day, every foreign and domestic route would've been opened to the highest bidder. Every gate, at every US airport, and an foreign gates with a US carrier would have gone to the highest bidder, and every landing slot would've gone to the highest bidder.
The above did NOT happen. All the carriers flying foreign routes go to keep their routes. Existing gateholders and slotholders got to keep them also.
This meant that those airlines were given, by the US government, valuable assets that an airline trying to enter a market had to buy with cash. If we wanted to deregulate the airline industry, we should've. BUT, instead, we left HUGE barriers to start-up airlines, that exist to this day.
If FULL deregulation had actually ocurred, the US aviation industry would be DRASTICALLY different than it is today. We may have even avoided the 911 meltdown, because the whole structure would've been WAY more efficient.
cliff
pdc (Playa del Carmen, Mexico)
Deregulated? No. We're still feeling the effects of deregulation, even now, because it was not done.
Deregulation would've meant that, on the date of deregulation, NO airline would have any route rights, gate rights, or landing slot rights.
On that day, every foreign and domestic route would've been opened to the highest bidder. Every gate, at every US airport, and an foreign gates with a US carrier would have gone to the highest bidder, and every landing slot would've gone to the highest bidder.
The above did NOT happen. All the carriers flying foreign routes go to keep their routes. Existing gateholders and slotholders got to keep them also.
This meant that those airlines were given, by the US government, valuable assets that an airline trying to enter a market had to buy with cash. If we wanted to deregulate the airline industry, we should've. BUT, instead, we left HUGE barriers to start-up airlines, that exist to this day.
If FULL deregulation had actually ocurred, the US aviation industry would be DRASTICALLY different than it is today. We may have even avoided the 911 meltdown, because the whole structure would've been WAY more efficient.
cliff
pdc (Playa del Carmen, Mexico)
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FAA CFI Certificate
I would like to do get a FAA CFI certificate. And I knew that passing rate for CFI course is quite low. 
However, my time is running short and does not permit me to stay long in U.S.
Therefore, I would like to know whether is there any school able to pass student to get CFI certificate "easily".
Money is not an issue. I hope to complete the CFI course within my time and leave U.S.
However, my time is running short and does not permit me to stay long in U.S.
Therefore, I would like to know whether is there any school able to pass student to get CFI certificate "easily".Money is not an issue. I hope to complete the CFI course within my time and leave U.S.
Kindly 'private message' to me if you have any recommendation. Millions of thanks!
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Hi!
I would check out All ATPs, or find a local FBO with an instructor who was full time and could devote all his time to you in the next month or so.
http://www.atpflightschool.com/
cliff
GRB
I would check out All ATPs, or find a local FBO with an instructor who was full time and could devote all his time to you in the next month or so.
http://www.atpflightschool.com/
cliff
GRB
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is that true in the USA they are desperate to find pilots???.
I got advertising from airnet.com who offer 3000$/month, and 1000$ during training.
too nice to be true, when in europe, you have to pay for type rating and hours building.
I remember the time when a 1500h instructor had to fight with 50 other applicants to fly a c150.
Do US companies apply now for green card?work permit?
I got advertising from airnet.com who offer 3000$/month, and 1000$ during training.
too nice to be true, when in europe, you have to pay for type rating and hours building.
I remember the time when a 1500h instructor had to fight with 50 other applicants to fly a c150.
Do US companies apply now for green card?work permit?
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just forget about this green card lottery, since it is online, you have million of applicants for 50'000 green cards only. which give you a chance of less than 1%.
the USA has f...d their immigration system which is obsolete with illegal immigrants coming every day by thousand
.(they check us when arriving in the USA when in the other hand 2000 illegal 
cross the border everyday with no documents but guns and drug for some, so what is that???it is now easier to be illegal in the USA than to deal with the US immigration which ask you now over 1000$ for a work permit if you are eligible )
They need to reform all agencies, or open boundaries with europe and canada and stop to f... up their citizen. That's the only way to save us cuz continuing like this, it is NOT going to work for very long , believe me!.
USA is in decline and soon it will be a third world country once fuel will be at 4$-5$ the gallon.
the USA has f...d their immigration system which is obsolete with illegal immigrants coming every day by thousand
.(they check us when arriving in the USA when in the other hand 2000 illegal cross the border everyday with no documents but guns and drug for some, so what is that???it is now easier to be illegal in the USA than to deal with the US immigration which ask you now over 1000$ for a work permit if you are eligible )They need to reform all agencies, or open boundaries with europe and canada and stop to f... up their citizen. That's the only way to save us cuz continuing like this, it is NOT going to work for very long , believe me!.
USA is in decline and soon it will be a third world country once fuel will be at 4$-5$ the gallon.
Last edited by dartagnan; 30th Nov 2007 at 20:25.
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Hi!
Yes, the US immigration system is totally screwed.
Yes, there is a massive shortage of pilots developing in the US. A number of airlines are increasing pay and giving the pilots better contracts to keep them. The ones that don't are losing pilots left and right, because there's so many jobs. Mesa, one of the worst US airlines (they fly feed for United, Delta and US Air), was losing about 70 pilots per month. In the first two weeks of NOV, they lost over 80!
cliff
KYIP
Yes, the US immigration system is totally screwed.
Yes, there is a massive shortage of pilots developing in the US. A number of airlines are increasing pay and giving the pilots better contracts to keep them. The ones that don't are losing pilots left and right, because there's so many jobs. Mesa, one of the worst US airlines (they fly feed for United, Delta and US Air), was losing about 70 pilots per month. In the first two weeks of NOV, they lost over 80!
cliff
KYIP
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A
1500$/month before tax(1200$ after tax=60$/day, average 6$ an hour!!!), 12hours work a day, 2 weeks vacation, no loss of license insurance, high mortage rate on housing,...
you can not make a living with that!
once in a major, if you do it, they ask for a 4 years bachelor degree, high competition.
Working as a cfi for peanuts then working for a regional for peanuts again and starting your career at 40+ yo(in a major) not knowing if your company will file bankrupt chapter 11 and lose your job and be back to the regional with a peanuts salary , all this is a big gamble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCgF62oawFI
No wonder no one wants to be a pilot anymore.
Even illegal Mexican refuse to be paid so low!!!!
still better to do cargo for UPS at 3000$ a month.
1500$/month before tax(1200$ after tax=60$/day, average 6$ an hour!!!), 12hours work a day, 2 weeks vacation, no loss of license insurance, high mortage rate on housing,...
you can not make a living with that!
once in a major, if you do it, they ask for a 4 years bachelor degree, high competition.
Working as a cfi for peanuts then working for a regional for peanuts again and starting your career at 40+ yo(in a major) not knowing if your company will file bankrupt chapter 11 and lose your job and be back to the regional with a peanuts salary , all this is a big gamble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCgF62oawFI
No wonder no one wants to be a pilot anymore.
Even illegal Mexican refuse to be paid so low!!!!
still better to do cargo for UPS at 3000$ a month.
Last edited by dartagnan; 1st Dec 2007 at 07:01.
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Everything's relative
Hey Capt. Seth,
Try flying a Caravan in icing. I'd trade places any day.
It's me, freight dog!
How did I get here? How the hell do I get outta here?
Try flying a Caravan in icing. I'd trade places any day.
It's me, freight dog!
How did I get here? How the hell do I get outta here?
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Immigration
Hi Dartagnan -
I agree that the US immigration system needs some real work. But if you think arriving through the International Arrivals Hall at JFK (or wherever) is a raw deal compared to the thousands crossing the border illegally, the answer is simple. Land in Tijuana and avail yourself of the same border crossing that the illegals use. Watch out for the barbed wire. Good luck!
I agree that the US immigration system needs some real work. But if you think arriving through the International Arrivals Hall at JFK (or wherever) is a raw deal compared to the thousands crossing the border illegally, the answer is simple. Land in Tijuana and avail yourself of the same border crossing that the illegals use. Watch out for the barbed wire. Good luck!
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There is no shortage.
I finished in Canada and even tho I have 105 hrs, I went to over 30+ companies offering myself even as ground crew to get my foot into industry and all of them turned me down saying they already have tons of resumes on hold.
Shortage my arse.
I finished in Canada and even tho I have 105 hrs, I went to over 30+ companies offering myself even as ground crew to get my foot into industry and all of them turned me down saying they already have tons of resumes on hold.
Shortage my arse.
Messerschmitt and Ppruners:
Among other pilots who fly for airlines with the CRJ etc, at least two Check Airmen told me about their shortages of experienced pilots. About a year ago the company paid new-hire pilots nothing until the first so-called paycheck arrived. No hotel money, no per diem (food money) etc. This recently changed somewhat.
One of the former Check Airmen told me in two different locations (in the staff shuttle and at the shoe shine stand) that he only flies trips with fairly senior FOs. He said that it was too much stress and work to perform IOE. He refused the company's offer for 150% (extra) pay to do IOE for new-hires and was
quite adamant and clear when he described the new challenges of such Initial operating Experience with pilots who just earned their multi-engine and commercial ratings. Alles klar?
His company now has created, or is beginning to create a specialized Captain Mentoring Program (I've never heard of this concept)-required by the insurance company-so that there might be a chance to later upgrade FOs with 2000 total hours to the CRJ left seat. An FO with that company who just rode on our jumpseat described the situation to us. These were all his words.
So there is not a real (experienced) pilot shortage in the US at some regionals?
An FO union rep. chatted with me two weeks ago in an airport gift shop. He said that up to 30 new-hires were expected to show up in a recent class but only 2 were in class the first day.
That sounded like a serious shortage to me.
His company was fined $2,000,000 dollars last winter by its larger airline codeshare partner because the pilot shortage had caused numerous flight cancellations. This was reported in a newspaper article which I read. That looked like quite a pilot shortage.
If this is all difficult to believe (in the US), then maybe the newspaper editor and those Check Airmen etc (one former...) created these stories like the Gebrueder Grimm Maerchen/Fairy Tales? And the other dozens of young pilots who claim similar situations pulled these stories 'out of thin air'?
If the US allowed more foreign pilots in with some sort of work visas etc or the airlines paid a good bit more for FOs, more experience would be available, but I have no idea at all how the process works. Even mainline Delta Airline reportedly had some pilots "no show" in at least one new-hire class last spring. The several major airlines with the huge hourly pay cuts (30-38%) also have trouble attracting nearly as many pilot applications as they attracted years ago. Check "AirlinePilotCentral" and research the pay about three-five years ago.
If an airline trains you to fly a city-pair for $29/hour as a turbofan FO, there is no more need for pilots to fly these legs in the First Officer seat in a 737, DC-9 or F-100 for about $90-100/hour. These larger jets will be gone soon, with far fewer openings already at the US majors. An A-319 can cost more to operate-sure tax depreciations are there for a while but so are hefty aircraft leases.
Alles klar?
Among other pilots who fly for airlines with the CRJ etc, at least two Check Airmen told me about their shortages of experienced pilots. About a year ago the company paid new-hire pilots nothing until the first so-called paycheck arrived. No hotel money, no per diem (food money) etc. This recently changed somewhat.
One of the former Check Airmen told me in two different locations (in the staff shuttle and at the shoe shine stand) that he only flies trips with fairly senior FOs. He said that it was too much stress and work to perform IOE. He refused the company's offer for 150% (extra) pay to do IOE for new-hires and was
quite adamant and clear when he described the new challenges of such Initial operating Experience with pilots who just earned their multi-engine and commercial ratings. Alles klar?
His company now has created, or is beginning to create a specialized Captain Mentoring Program (I've never heard of this concept)-required by the insurance company-so that there might be a chance to later upgrade FOs with 2000 total hours to the CRJ left seat. An FO with that company who just rode on our jumpseat described the situation to us. These were all his words.
So there is not a real (experienced) pilot shortage in the US at some regionals?
An FO union rep. chatted with me two weeks ago in an airport gift shop. He said that up to 30 new-hires were expected to show up in a recent class but only 2 were in class the first day.
That sounded like a serious shortage to me.
His company was fined $2,000,000 dollars last winter by its larger airline codeshare partner because the pilot shortage had caused numerous flight cancellations. This was reported in a newspaper article which I read. That looked like quite a pilot shortage.
If this is all difficult to believe (in the US), then maybe the newspaper editor and those Check Airmen etc (one former...) created these stories like the Gebrueder Grimm Maerchen/Fairy Tales? And the other dozens of young pilots who claim similar situations pulled these stories 'out of thin air'?
If the US allowed more foreign pilots in with some sort of work visas etc or the airlines paid a good bit more for FOs, more experience would be available, but I have no idea at all how the process works. Even mainline Delta Airline reportedly had some pilots "no show" in at least one new-hire class last spring. The several major airlines with the huge hourly pay cuts (30-38%) also have trouble attracting nearly as many pilot applications as they attracted years ago. Check "AirlinePilotCentral" and research the pay about three-five years ago.
If an airline trains you to fly a city-pair for $29/hour as a turbofan FO, there is no more need for pilots to fly these legs in the First Officer seat in a 737, DC-9 or F-100 for about $90-100/hour. These larger jets will be gone soon, with far fewer openings already at the US majors. An A-319 can cost more to operate-sure tax depreciations are there for a while but so are hefty aircraft leases.
Alles klar?
Last edited by Ignition Override; 17th Dec 2007 at 04:54.
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Conversation with pilot married to manager of pilot recruitment at a large regional airline in the U.S. Even with dropping the hourly requirements it's getting harder and harder to find qualified pilots. Maybe there are more pilots out there but they're either not applying at this carrier or the carrier's not interested in them for reasons other than the amount of flying hours they have.
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Ignition Override wrote -
His company now has created, or is beginning to create a specialized Captain Mentoring Program (I've never heard of this concept)-required by the insurance company-so that there might be a chance to later upgrade FOs with 2000 total hours to the CRJ left seat.
**********************************************************
Henson Airlines had a left seat mentoring program back in the early 1980's. Senior FO's, when paired with CKA, would fly the left seat. This was prior to their Captain's upgrade.
Pan Am had a similar program in the 1980's. I believe FO's in the top 10% of their bid status could fly left seat with approved Captains.
His company now has created, or is beginning to create a specialized Captain Mentoring Program (I've never heard of this concept)-required by the insurance company-so that there might be a chance to later upgrade FOs with 2000 total hours to the CRJ left seat.
**********************************************************
Henson Airlines had a left seat mentoring program back in the early 1980's. Senior FO's, when paired with CKA, would fly the left seat. This was prior to their Captain's upgrade.
Pan Am had a similar program in the 1980's. I believe FO's in the top 10% of their bid status could fly left seat with approved Captains.
Last edited by misd-agin; 17th Dec 2007 at 08:09. Reason: sentence structure
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With PanAm...
xxx
F/O occupied the LH seat frequently... (if approved by PIC) -
It was "your leg, your left seat" policy - (and empty the ashtray) -
PanAm provided (PIC) type rating upon initial F/O qualification (upgrade from F/E).
xxx
Thrust levers handling:
Nowadays, PIC takes the throttles...
Back then, F/O takeoff, had the throttles to V1.
If the PIC wanted to reject, he slammed his hands on levers (+ your hands) to idle, and deployed reversers.
And in these blessed days of F/Es, these F/Es did set power... with accuracy.
You wanted 1.47 EPR, they got 1.47 EPR for you, before 80 kts...
Otto-throttles or not.
xxx
Nowadays it is Disneyland cockpit SOPs with most airlines...
Not mine
Happy contrails
xxx
F/O occupied the LH seat frequently... (if approved by PIC) -
It was "your leg, your left seat" policy - (and empty the ashtray) -
PanAm provided (PIC) type rating upon initial F/O qualification (upgrade from F/E).
xxx
Thrust levers handling:
Nowadays, PIC takes the throttles...
Back then, F/O takeoff, had the throttles to V1.
If the PIC wanted to reject, he slammed his hands on levers (+ your hands) to idle, and deployed reversers.
And in these blessed days of F/Es, these F/Es did set power... with accuracy.
You wanted 1.47 EPR, they got 1.47 EPR for you, before 80 kts...
Otto-throttles or not.
xxx
Nowadays it is Disneyland cockpit SOPs with most airlines...
Not mine
Happy contrails
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Shortage exists only among certain 'airlines' and for experienced crew... I applied to a feeder-line last week by e-mail...got a response within an hour or so asking for me to contact them by phone... before doing so i looked at their FAQs and calculated the max poss salary (900 hrs) that could be earned and quickly dumped the idea of applying... I know of a lady working for a large law company in NY whos primary resposibility is monitoring use of the copy machine and who makes almost twice the sum.
I think I'll wait for her to leave (she's pregnant) and apply for the job.
I think I'll wait for her to leave (she's pregnant) and apply for the job.