USA Pilot Shortage
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Expatsylvania
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid not. The U.S. pilots who are leaving are fully qualified airline pilots with thousands of hours in jets. New pilots like yourself will not have an easier time getting into the country and working because of American pilots seeking jobs elsewhere.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ft, Lauderdale,FL
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm forced to agree with all of you recommending against working as a pilot in the U.S.
I am a dual citizen ( Swedish, US) having been lucky enough to get on with a major U.S carrier in the early 90's. I spent 2.5 years on furlough before being recalled and then, of course, the aftermath of 9/11 with more furloughs, bankruptcies and resulting loss of pensions. Although my airline escaped the most recent wave of bankruptcies I have no illusions as to what the future holds.
I am now a wide body co-pilot with a decent salary( only because I'm single) looking at captain upgrade at my base in perhaps 4 years. That will be 19 years to captain. I plan on retiring at 50 and take my services overseas. The job simply doesn't hold much allure anymore with cranky employees, greedy and indifferent management and seniority stagnation unknown even in the 1970's.
I would encourage all future aspiring pilots to stay away from the U.S market except to gain experience. The ONLY exception to this is UPS and FedEx. If you manage to get on with any of these you have certainly hit the jack pot. If not, follow the advice of other ppruners on this thread and get out. I probably will.
I am a dual citizen ( Swedish, US) having been lucky enough to get on with a major U.S carrier in the early 90's. I spent 2.5 years on furlough before being recalled and then, of course, the aftermath of 9/11 with more furloughs, bankruptcies and resulting loss of pensions. Although my airline escaped the most recent wave of bankruptcies I have no illusions as to what the future holds.
I am now a wide body co-pilot with a decent salary( only because I'm single) looking at captain upgrade at my base in perhaps 4 years. That will be 19 years to captain. I plan on retiring at 50 and take my services overseas. The job simply doesn't hold much allure anymore with cranky employees, greedy and indifferent management and seniority stagnation unknown even in the 1970's.
I would encourage all future aspiring pilots to stay away from the U.S market except to gain experience. The ONLY exception to this is UPS and FedEx. If you manage to get on with any of these you have certainly hit the jack pot. If not, follow the advice of other ppruners on this thread and get out. I probably will.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AEP
Age: 80
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another fact about the US Dollar...
I recently had a commuter airline Embraer F/O from the US on board of one of my flights, and was surprised to meet an "ex-US Citizen and ex-PanAm pilot" flying an Argentina 747... and we talked airlines and wages and career the whole flight...
xxx
He is a second year F/O on Bandeirantes... he is 27 years old, and told me that he spent nearly $100,000 in training before he got hired by an "almost airline" (my name for a commuter air carrier). He still goes to college to get a 4 years degree, so to qualify for a major US carrier.
xxx
He told me about his wages... US$24,000/year which is at today's exchange rate UK Sterling = 12,000 Pounds/year, or 17,200 Euros/year... He cannot afford to live at his base (due to rental rates) so, he lives with his parents, and spends approximately 20 nights monthly in a motel near the airport at his base. The motel rate for the room is $39 per night... oh yes, he has a medical insurance (but the first $1,000 of medical expenses for each calendar year are not covered, nor pharmaceuticals)... Oh yes, his income tax must be around 15-20% of his gross income (how "gross" is the money he is left with...???) -
xxx
He was surprised that we do not charge for drinks and peanuts on our flight...
...and... he gave me his pilot resume (C.V.)...
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
He is a second year F/O on Bandeirantes... he is 27 years old, and told me that he spent nearly $100,000 in training before he got hired by an "almost airline" (my name for a commuter air carrier). He still goes to college to get a 4 years degree, so to qualify for a major US carrier.
xxx
He told me about his wages... US$24,000/year which is at today's exchange rate UK Sterling = 12,000 Pounds/year, or 17,200 Euros/year... He cannot afford to live at his base (due to rental rates) so, he lives with his parents, and spends approximately 20 nights monthly in a motel near the airport at his base. The motel rate for the room is $39 per night... oh yes, he has a medical insurance (but the first $1,000 of medical expenses for each calendar year are not covered, nor pharmaceuticals)... Oh yes, his income tax must be around 15-20% of his gross income (how "gross" is the money he is left with...???) -
xxx
He was surprised that we do not charge for drinks and peanuts on our flight...
...and... he gave me his pilot resume (C.V.)...
xxx
Happy contrails
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good Riddens..
BelArgUSA,
I have been following your post for sometime. I am a ex-Pan Am pilot I flew the B727 out of DCA. I am a PROUD USA citizen and I went throught the same crap you did.
I hate how you criticize the USA for the airline problems! I found a great flying job here in the USA not in some Third world hole. I own a house on Cape Cod, Condo in Charleston SC, and I manage to buy the wife a fancy convertable. Amazing, all in the USA! The US is not responsible for your problems, it was poor management in a Capitalist sytem. Blame the managers and the idiots who run the airlines. Blame ALPA for your problems! You signed off on Seniority, you decided to live in LA. So, when Pan Am went to the grave on December 4, 1991, so did our seniority. So blame ALPA for not being able to find a B747 Capt position at United. I managed to find a great corporate job that gave me a better life than Pan Am.
I miss Pan Am but I REALLY don't miss your types.. Good Riddens and bid another route/country. America will be a better place without you and the Mexicans
Cheers,
Cessnaxdriver
I have been following your post for sometime. I am a ex-Pan Am pilot I flew the B727 out of DCA. I am a PROUD USA citizen and I went throught the same crap you did.
I hate how you criticize the USA for the airline problems! I found a great flying job here in the USA not in some Third world hole. I own a house on Cape Cod, Condo in Charleston SC, and I manage to buy the wife a fancy convertable. Amazing, all in the USA! The US is not responsible for your problems, it was poor management in a Capitalist sytem. Blame the managers and the idiots who run the airlines. Blame ALPA for your problems! You signed off on Seniority, you decided to live in LA. So, when Pan Am went to the grave on December 4, 1991, so did our seniority. So blame ALPA for not being able to find a B747 Capt position at United. I managed to find a great corporate job that gave me a better life than Pan Am.
I miss Pan Am but I REALLY don't miss your types.. Good Riddens and bid another route/country. America will be a better place without you and the Mexicans
Cheers,
Cessnaxdriver
CessnaAxDriver and US Ppruners:
How about a debate about this industry.
I agree, in general, with various observations made by BelArgUsa, and-too a limited extent-can understand Cessna's resistance to criticism of US govt decisions by someone who grew up elsewhere. But he worked for years for a US major airline. Here are my criticisms of some previous US govt decisions and policies and do not speak for anybody else. Some of these policies and laws still exist as our industry races to the bottom. Some of the fault lies with the fact that different MECs live in a vacuum to a large extent when they
battle Upper Mgmts.
Let's first clarify that this US industry was never deregulated. That is a deception for the American public, created under the smoke of the (Democratic) Carter Administration, and sponsored to an extent by Democratic Senator Kennedy, partly motivated by his desire to improve air service within his tiny "Republic of Massachusetts" and between its many city pairs. Blame should be shared by both major parties-stay tuned.
I am a native US citizen and was hired into a turbofan right seat in 1985.
The airlines have never operated in a political vacuum. The huge anti-labor advantages (proper in a so-called "advanced industrialized nation"? ) given to some airline Upper Mgmts by the Reagan, Bush Sr and other administrations should have been a scandal. Former Professor Alfred Kahn (the US 'guru' of airline dereg.), who advised the US Congress on the benefits on partial deregulation with his convoluted and bizarre theories received very lucrative
stock in New York Air, and there were comments in "Aviation Week & ST" that this stock was somehow connected with his successful arguments before Congress in 1977 or '78.
US laws and a few White House Chief Executives enabled charming slime to abuse our profession using numerous legal methods. At the top of this slime heap (Misthaufen) stands Mr. Frank Lorenzo ("Frankie Smooth-Talk"), who set a historical precedent by his exploitation of bankruptcy laws (he understood the political landscape, via Ronald Reagan, as Wellington understood Waterloo's layout better than Napoleon) in order to void the Continental labor contracts. We have not made too much progress since the early 80's. Several top DOT Administrative Judges made very favorable rulings for Texas Air Corporation, and then quickly went to work for TAC (against labor?). Just a coincidence, I suppose.
The US federal laws which allowed airlines to grossly underfund our pension funds should also be a national shame and scandal. But what mindboggling complexity, even for most of us who went beyond Jethro Bodine's level of education.
These are just a few of the realities, allowed by decades of politicians sticking it to aviation professionals (CO, Eastern etc) who have given everything they could to help their airlines survive.
Sure, the creation of junk bonds in the 80s was not the fault of our US government.
But (mostly GOP) government arrogance towards our profession (because we are neither management nor major stockholders) would have had little effect if this industry operated inside a vacuum.
I would never apologize for what such meddling has done, either directly or indirectly, to our airline industry.
A relative lost part of his pension due to an airline "White Knight"-enabled by US laws which had existed for decades. I would never apologize for that either.
By the way, is it not true that of the three (3) people on the PBGC (the pseudo-private govt pension corporation), two (2) of those people also have decisive roles within the govt-run ATSB (Air Trans. Stabilization Board), which decides which US airlines deserve favorable govt. financial loans? With other industries watching how the US airlines lean heavily on the PBGC, they have joined the game (let future generations worry about the immense debts). If that is true, is that situation not a major potential conflict of interest?
If these situations are/were true, it would never be my decision to apologize for such.
If these situations are mistaken, I will gladly stand corrected.
In my opinion, BelArgUSA's observations can be valid no matter where he was born, whether Ruhpolding, Bavaria...Brugge, Belgium or Olathe, Kansas. He appeared to have worked for years as an airline pilot here. I can name only three airline (or former) CEOs who had the instr., multi- and maybe a type rating: Bethune (CO:757, via his Boeing job), Arpey (AMR: flying his familiy in an Aztec or Twin Comanche), and Mr. Mickelson (Am Trans Air). Heck...some US-born academics and others are given credit as "aviation consultents", almost none of of whom had any operational job in US civil aviation, whether as mechanic, pilot etc.
I know several mainline pilots who are leaving all their seniority behind, frpm ages 41 to age 52, in order to join other airlines as new-hires (Fedex, UPS, Emirates) or leave the career altogether! One studies and has a family, to pursue a career as a Nurse Anesthesiologist. This almost never happened years ago. These guys have been full-time pilots for at least 18 years or so. An FO I've worked with is on the backed-up interview list for one of those companies. They want to work for companies in careers where people are not spat upon, and the airlines etc have leadership and the intelligence/integrity to plan and execute long-term corporate strategies. When jumpseating on Fedex, notice the very good morale of their ground- and flightcrews. It leaves me quite envious after I leave their facilities. This company is too arrogant to care, unless hundreds of flights are cancelled...the Board of Directors finally pull their heads out of their a@@@@, find some backbone (?) and notice: I see why they need such total wimps on the Board. Prove me wrong.
Most top officials in the DOT, FAA and elsewhere NEVER worked as a pilot or as a controller, mechanic etc. They chose to never even require a scheduled rest period for reserve/standby crews until after bodies were removed from the MD-82 at LIT. The FAA was never primarily funded by nor directly manipulated by a foreign government (i.e. the US congress and the White House anti-labor political agenda).
I have a one-day trip today and need time to fly the simulated Hurricane, P-38 or Bf-110 against some bogies or FLAK. Yep, a sign of early dementia, but at least it is VFR flying that some of us can afford. Tot ziens and au revoir.
How about a debate about this industry.
I agree, in general, with various observations made by BelArgUsa, and-too a limited extent-can understand Cessna's resistance to criticism of US govt decisions by someone who grew up elsewhere. But he worked for years for a US major airline. Here are my criticisms of some previous US govt decisions and policies and do not speak for anybody else. Some of these policies and laws still exist as our industry races to the bottom. Some of the fault lies with the fact that different MECs live in a vacuum to a large extent when they
battle Upper Mgmts.
Let's first clarify that this US industry was never deregulated. That is a deception for the American public, created under the smoke of the (Democratic) Carter Administration, and sponsored to an extent by Democratic Senator Kennedy, partly motivated by his desire to improve air service within his tiny "Republic of Massachusetts" and between its many city pairs. Blame should be shared by both major parties-stay tuned.
I am a native US citizen and was hired into a turbofan right seat in 1985.
The airlines have never operated in a political vacuum. The huge anti-labor advantages (proper in a so-called "advanced industrialized nation"? ) given to some airline Upper Mgmts by the Reagan, Bush Sr and other administrations should have been a scandal. Former Professor Alfred Kahn (the US 'guru' of airline dereg.), who advised the US Congress on the benefits on partial deregulation with his convoluted and bizarre theories received very lucrative
stock in New York Air, and there were comments in "Aviation Week & ST" that this stock was somehow connected with his successful arguments before Congress in 1977 or '78.
US laws and a few White House Chief Executives enabled charming slime to abuse our profession using numerous legal methods. At the top of this slime heap (Misthaufen) stands Mr. Frank Lorenzo ("Frankie Smooth-Talk"), who set a historical precedent by his exploitation of bankruptcy laws (he understood the political landscape, via Ronald Reagan, as Wellington understood Waterloo's layout better than Napoleon) in order to void the Continental labor contracts. We have not made too much progress since the early 80's. Several top DOT Administrative Judges made very favorable rulings for Texas Air Corporation, and then quickly went to work for TAC (against labor?). Just a coincidence, I suppose.
The US federal laws which allowed airlines to grossly underfund our pension funds should also be a national shame and scandal. But what mindboggling complexity, even for most of us who went beyond Jethro Bodine's level of education.
These are just a few of the realities, allowed by decades of politicians sticking it to aviation professionals (CO, Eastern etc) who have given everything they could to help their airlines survive.
Sure, the creation of junk bonds in the 80s was not the fault of our US government.
But (mostly GOP) government arrogance towards our profession (because we are neither management nor major stockholders) would have had little effect if this industry operated inside a vacuum.
I would never apologize for what such meddling has done, either directly or indirectly, to our airline industry.
A relative lost part of his pension due to an airline "White Knight"-enabled by US laws which had existed for decades. I would never apologize for that either.
By the way, is it not true that of the three (3) people on the PBGC (the pseudo-private govt pension corporation), two (2) of those people also have decisive roles within the govt-run ATSB (Air Trans. Stabilization Board), which decides which US airlines deserve favorable govt. financial loans? With other industries watching how the US airlines lean heavily on the PBGC, they have joined the game (let future generations worry about the immense debts). If that is true, is that situation not a major potential conflict of interest?
If these situations are/were true, it would never be my decision to apologize for such.
If these situations are mistaken, I will gladly stand corrected.
In my opinion, BelArgUSA's observations can be valid no matter where he was born, whether Ruhpolding, Bavaria...Brugge, Belgium or Olathe, Kansas. He appeared to have worked for years as an airline pilot here. I can name only three airline (or former) CEOs who had the instr., multi- and maybe a type rating: Bethune (CO:757, via his Boeing job), Arpey (AMR: flying his familiy in an Aztec or Twin Comanche), and Mr. Mickelson (Am Trans Air). Heck...some US-born academics and others are given credit as "aviation consultents", almost none of of whom had any operational job in US civil aviation, whether as mechanic, pilot etc.
I know several mainline pilots who are leaving all their seniority behind, frpm ages 41 to age 52, in order to join other airlines as new-hires (Fedex, UPS, Emirates) or leave the career altogether! One studies and has a family, to pursue a career as a Nurse Anesthesiologist. This almost never happened years ago. These guys have been full-time pilots for at least 18 years or so. An FO I've worked with is on the backed-up interview list for one of those companies. They want to work for companies in careers where people are not spat upon, and the airlines etc have leadership and the intelligence/integrity to plan and execute long-term corporate strategies. When jumpseating on Fedex, notice the very good morale of their ground- and flightcrews. It leaves me quite envious after I leave their facilities. This company is too arrogant to care, unless hundreds of flights are cancelled...the Board of Directors finally pull their heads out of their a@@@@, find some backbone (?) and notice: I see why they need such total wimps on the Board. Prove me wrong.
Most top officials in the DOT, FAA and elsewhere NEVER worked as a pilot or as a controller, mechanic etc. They chose to never even require a scheduled rest period for reserve/standby crews until after bodies were removed from the MD-82 at LIT. The FAA was never primarily funded by nor directly manipulated by a foreign government (i.e. the US congress and the White House anti-labor political agenda).
I have a one-day trip today and need time to fly the simulated Hurricane, P-38 or Bf-110 against some bogies or FLAK. Yep, a sign of early dementia, but at least it is VFR flying that some of us can afford. Tot ziens and au revoir.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 7th Oct 2007 at 06:42.
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Announcement
The last 3 posts were deleted for various reasons. I have posted a reminder of the terms which you all agreed to when joining the Professional Pilots Rumour Network.
And now back to the topic at hand...
And now back to the topic at hand...
Join Date: May 2003
Location: KGRB, but on the road about 1/2 the time.
Age: 61
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi!
Mesa is about ready to shut down, because of a lack of pilots.
Pinnacle and Mesaba are hiring captains off the street. They start out making about $60K first year. TT required is about 2500.
EVERY regional in the US is hiring guys with less than 500 hrs TT. NO ONE has to be a flight instructor, unless you want to. And, if you want to, you can make $40K+ as a flight instructor for the Ab-Initio schools out west.
The airline I fly for hired 2 guys with less than 400 hours Total Time. Starting pay is $34K. I was hired at about 2000 TT. 5 year captain pay is $92/hour. My buddy has worked here about 7-8 years, and he has over $150K in his retirement account. Another guy just left us for Emirates. He was offered DEC on the -777.
A buddy of mine went to Kalitta (747s-requiring 4000 TT) and made over $100K as an FO.
NetJets requires 2500 TT. Their new base pay, if you take the 7/7 schedule will be $60K. If you take the 18 day work schedule, you will make $75K first year as an FO. Top pay at NetJets will be well over $200K.
As a current US airline pilot, you won't make as much as you did in the '70s. HOWEVER, you can easily make more than 90% of people in the world, in a reasonable amount of time.
If you think it's crap, don't come here. If you're lucky enough to live in India or China, do your flight training there and fly there-they need you.
cliff
KLRD
PS-I have been working in the US for 24 years, in 5 career fields. Now that I am working in the airlines, I am making the most I have ever made, and it's by FAR the best job I've had. I do NOT work at a major airline. That would be MUCH better than where I'm at, and pay a LOT more.
PPS-If you don't want to fly PAX, then the top 3 are: FedEx, UPS and Atlas/Polar.
Mesa is about ready to shut down, because of a lack of pilots.
Pinnacle and Mesaba are hiring captains off the street. They start out making about $60K first year. TT required is about 2500.
EVERY regional in the US is hiring guys with less than 500 hrs TT. NO ONE has to be a flight instructor, unless you want to. And, if you want to, you can make $40K+ as a flight instructor for the Ab-Initio schools out west.
The airline I fly for hired 2 guys with less than 400 hours Total Time. Starting pay is $34K. I was hired at about 2000 TT. 5 year captain pay is $92/hour. My buddy has worked here about 7-8 years, and he has over $150K in his retirement account. Another guy just left us for Emirates. He was offered DEC on the -777.
A buddy of mine went to Kalitta (747s-requiring 4000 TT) and made over $100K as an FO.
NetJets requires 2500 TT. Their new base pay, if you take the 7/7 schedule will be $60K. If you take the 18 day work schedule, you will make $75K first year as an FO. Top pay at NetJets will be well over $200K.
As a current US airline pilot, you won't make as much as you did in the '70s. HOWEVER, you can easily make more than 90% of people in the world, in a reasonable amount of time.
If you think it's crap, don't come here. If you're lucky enough to live in India or China, do your flight training there and fly there-they need you.
cliff
KLRD
PS-I have been working in the US for 24 years, in 5 career fields. Now that I am working in the airlines, I am making the most I have ever made, and it's by FAR the best job I've had. I do NOT work at a major airline. That would be MUCH better than where I'm at, and pay a LOT more.
PPS-If you don't want to fly PAX, then the top 3 are: FedEx, UPS and Atlas/Polar.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: usa
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EVERY regional in the US is hiring guys with less than 500 hrs TT. NO ONE has to be a flight instructor, unless you want to. And, if you want to, you can make $40K+ as a flight instructor for the Ab-Initio schools out west.
Not every regional is hiring with less then 500, skw, express jet, horizon to name a few.
The airline I fly for hired 2 guys with less than 400 hours Total Time. Starting pay is $34K. I was hired at about 2000 TT. 5 year captain pay is $92/hour. My buddy has worked here about 7-8 years, and he has over $150K in his retirement account. Another guy just left us for Emirates. He was offered DEC on the -777.
A buddy of mine went to Kalitta (747s-requiring 4000 TT) and made over $100K as an FO.
There is no way he made over 100k at kalitta unless he is an extremely sr guy (they start out at first year$57, 64, 74, 77/hr)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATP Cliff,
I know a lot of RJ guys & Freight Dogs looking at overseas contracts/airlines.
Many of us are getting tired of how US airlines are poorly managed. Moral is literally in the toilet. With airlines in the Middle East, India, China, Japan and Korea all hiring and the Fractional jobs in the States, the US Airlines will be hurting for pilots as more of us go overseas or fly biz-jets in the States.
I know a lot of RJ guys & Freight Dogs looking at overseas contracts/airlines.
Many of us are getting tired of how US airlines are poorly managed. Moral is literally in the toilet. With airlines in the Middle East, India, China, Japan and Korea all hiring and the Fractional jobs in the States, the US Airlines will be hurting for pilots as more of us go overseas or fly biz-jets in the States.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: KGRB, but on the road about 1/2 the time.
Age: 61
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi!
Pinnacle (Northwest Airlink) has a pipeline of guys going to Emirates. My buddy is leaving for there in 2 weeks-he´s VERY excited.
Good luck to you!
cliff
pdc (Playa del Carmen, Mexico)
Pinnacle (Northwest Airlink) has a pipeline of guys going to Emirates. My buddy is leaving for there in 2 weeks-he´s VERY excited.
Good luck to you!
cliff
pdc (Playa del Carmen, Mexico)
ATPCliff:
The guy at Emirates who is/was reportedly in charge of hiring pilots is Mr. E* D*******.
He was a NWA DTW Chief Pilot a few years ago.
Reportedly, is the key word. Several pilots have claimed this to have been true. Maybe it was never true.
The guy at Emirates who is/was reportedly in charge of hiring pilots is Mr. E* D*******.
He was a NWA DTW Chief Pilot a few years ago.
Reportedly, is the key word. Several pilots have claimed this to have been true. Maybe it was never true.
Last edited by weasil; 5th Nov 2007 at 18:45. Reason: remove name
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ignition Override,
In post #147, October 6th 2007, you said
"Let's first clarify that this US industry was never deregulated."
What, in your opinion, happened back in the fall of 1978?
What was your involvement with aviation prior to the fall of 1978?
In post #147, October 6th 2007, you said
"Let's first clarify that this US industry was never deregulated."
What, in your opinion, happened back in the fall of 1978?
What was your involvement with aviation prior to the fall of 1978?
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr E* D******* is not in charge of hiring pilots at Emirates and his NWA background is of no signifigance to this subject.
Emirates does need a lot of pilots, they need them now and in the future but you don't get hired just by showing up.
Emirates does need a lot of pilots, they need them now and in the future but you don't get hired just by showing up.
Last edited by weasil; 5th Nov 2007 at 18:46. Reason: remove name
Greetings misd-agin:
My comments were meant to describe US deregulation as only partial deregulation, and they are admittedly selective and quite brief, due to the desire to compress the descriptions here.
From Wikipedia:
"Essential Air Service subsidies effective 10 years from enactment". We flew to some of those towns in the EMB-110 and SD3-30/60.
"...CAB was authorized to grant antitrust immunity to air carriers".
But mergers require Department of Justice approval.
In "Airline Deregulation: The Unfinished Revolution" by R.W. Poole Jr. and Viggo Butler:
"In deregulation, Congress unleashed market forces on one segment of the air travel system-but failed to free up the critical infrastructure on which airlines depend, namely the airports and the air traffic control system.
These essential elements of the air travel system remain not only govt.-controlled, but government-owned."
These comments are certainly selective but appear to be valid in the general sense, based upon everything written about our system in "Aviation Week", the "Wall Street Journal" and observed by the older guys in the left seat years ago, many of whom started flying in the early 70s or earlier. Few line pilots seem to have had inside government contacts who could provide objective inside information on the entire process. At least none that I ever heard of when the retired older guys were working here years ago. They noticed how our careers were not helped by White House favoritism given to Mr. Lorenzo from about 1980-1992 or so. The strong tendency of aspiring airline pilots to believe in the self-delusion that "rugged individualism" (the myth we absorbed from John Wayne movies) and self-promotion are more important than pilot profession solidarity have eroded this profession, being two very basic human elements which have been exploited year after year by many airlines and developed into an art form.
A bankruptcy attorney who was retained by our company told a fellow crewmember that their job during Chapter 11 negotiations was to make our jobs almost bad enough for people not to want to come to work (the present staff or the future outsourced?).Have we seen the bottom yet?
No 'patriotic motives' or political leanings can camouflage this reality. Two pilot interviewees were on the airport shuttle yesterday. After they got off, another older pilot here was surprised that guys would want to give up a Captain's seat somewhere to be brand-new again, face very hard work during Init. Tng for just $29/hour the first year, and not much more during the 2nd year (flying 100-125 seat jets).
Speaking of "Aviation Leak", it quoted "alleged" pressure inside the FAA's Western Region to allow certain "irregularities" (or did it say advantages?) during the CO strike against Lorenzo in '83-84". The issue could probably be researched in a university library after trolling the Internet. The local one has good flight safety articles in the old "MAC Flyer" (now AMC), maybe copies of "Approach" magazine (these are often on the Internet).
"Alleged" decisions by former DOT Admin. Law judges who immediately went to work for either CO or TAC right after favorable rulings for Texas Air Corporation appeared to be interesting coincidences, as described by "Aviation Week & ST".
The so-called "quasi-private" PBGC and the ATSB are basically government entities.
Professional bureaucrats and attorneys might better describe this with the correct terminology and accuracy.
I earned my Private license in '78, then went into the AFRES, flying civilian turboprops in '83, then turbofans from '85 to the present. I'm just a regular line pilot with no legal or govt experience.
As our careers (in the US) race to the bottom, it is interesting that so many pilots seem to be leaving this country for what are apparently good jobs overseas.
My comments were meant to describe US deregulation as only partial deregulation, and they are admittedly selective and quite brief, due to the desire to compress the descriptions here.
From Wikipedia:
"Essential Air Service subsidies effective 10 years from enactment". We flew to some of those towns in the EMB-110 and SD3-30/60.
"...CAB was authorized to grant antitrust immunity to air carriers".
But mergers require Department of Justice approval.
In "Airline Deregulation: The Unfinished Revolution" by R.W. Poole Jr. and Viggo Butler:
"In deregulation, Congress unleashed market forces on one segment of the air travel system-but failed to free up the critical infrastructure on which airlines depend, namely the airports and the air traffic control system.
These essential elements of the air travel system remain not only govt.-controlled, but government-owned."
These comments are certainly selective but appear to be valid in the general sense, based upon everything written about our system in "Aviation Week", the "Wall Street Journal" and observed by the older guys in the left seat years ago, many of whom started flying in the early 70s or earlier. Few line pilots seem to have had inside government contacts who could provide objective inside information on the entire process. At least none that I ever heard of when the retired older guys were working here years ago. They noticed how our careers were not helped by White House favoritism given to Mr. Lorenzo from about 1980-1992 or so. The strong tendency of aspiring airline pilots to believe in the self-delusion that "rugged individualism" (the myth we absorbed from John Wayne movies) and self-promotion are more important than pilot profession solidarity have eroded this profession, being two very basic human elements which have been exploited year after year by many airlines and developed into an art form.
A bankruptcy attorney who was retained by our company told a fellow crewmember that their job during Chapter 11 negotiations was to make our jobs almost bad enough for people not to want to come to work (the present staff or the future outsourced?).Have we seen the bottom yet?
No 'patriotic motives' or political leanings can camouflage this reality. Two pilot interviewees were on the airport shuttle yesterday. After they got off, another older pilot here was surprised that guys would want to give up a Captain's seat somewhere to be brand-new again, face very hard work during Init. Tng for just $29/hour the first year, and not much more during the 2nd year (flying 100-125 seat jets).
Speaking of "Aviation Leak", it quoted "alleged"
pressure inside the FAA's Western Region to allow certain "irregularities" (or did it say advantages?) during the CO strike against Lorenzo in '83-84". The issue could probably be researched in a university library after trolling the Internet. The local one has good flight safety articles in the old "MAC Flyer" (now AMC), maybe copies of "Approach" magazine (these are often on the Internet)."Alleged" decisions by former DOT Admin. Law judges who immediately went to work for either CO or TAC right after favorable rulings for Texas Air Corporation appeared to be interesting coincidences, as described by "Aviation Week & ST".
The so-called "quasi-private" PBGC and the ATSB are basically government entities.
Professional bureaucrats and attorneys might better describe this with the correct terminology and accuracy.
I earned my Private license in '78, then went into the AFRES, flying civilian turboprops in '83, then turbofans from '85 to the present. I'm just a regular line pilot with no legal or govt experience.
As our careers (in the US) race to the bottom, it is interesting that so many pilots seem to be leaving this country for what are apparently good jobs overseas.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 12th Dec 2007 at 07:09.