Norwegian 737-800
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Norwegian 737-800
I just wondered if anyone could share some inside info in regards to Norwegian's purchase of 737-800's. I believe my boss, M. O'Leary, managed to get a deal where we pay around 25-30 mill per aircraft. Kjos signed the deal at a time where the prices for new Boeings peaked, so how much is he paying. 50'ish? It seems like he's struggling every month now, (considering having to sell personal shares and generally begging for money, also heard he was drafted to Seattle for an explanation) presumably trying to cope with getting enough capital to pay his dues. (Both fuel and Boeing). Furthermore he does not have alot of assets, and to me it seems kind of high-risk for...well basically, the future of the entire company. I would like to see them succeed, but on the other hand isn't this just another case of a pilot trying to do business...and we're normally best at flying. They're lucky to be operating in an area with lack of proper competition; SAS has been running in the reds for at least a decade with an overhead in management more than 100-fold compared to Ryanair. I'm not trying to say that our company is great, but at least buying aircraft should be done at the right time.
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[QUOTEI'm not trying to say that our company is great, but at least buying aircraft should be done at the right time.]
As for every airline in the world:
Buy low, sell high.
Perhaps Tjos got intoxicated with the upswings and By God, he was going to ride the wave and put the dinosaurs out of business..?
The next few months should tell.
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Lately DY has been showing a profit, as well as an increase. But only about half a year ago they were struggling to survive. Things change quickly in aviation
. Some win, more lose.
Where did you hear that the main man has been called to Seattle? Have heard nothing about this here in Norway (but I`m not with the company either, so I rally wouldn`t know
).
. Some win, more lose. Where did you hear that the main man has been called to Seattle? Have heard nothing about this here in Norway (but I`m not with the company either, so I rally wouldn`t know
).
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Norwegian has never made any real profit. Q3 report was minus 312 mill on the operations, balanced by financial juggling. When the business idea is to run the largest operation possible at any time, growing constantly, with a minimum of capital, there will be some risk involved.
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Norwegian has never made any real profit. Q3 report was minus 312 mill on the operations, balanced by financial juggling. When the business idea is to run the largest operation possible at any time, growing constantly, with a minimum of capital, there will be some risk involved.
Aircraft arriving from Seattle and other places all the time.
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Uhh...profit in Q3 you say....that was after Kjos himself forking up enough doe to please Seattle. He sold off personal shares and also begged the main share holders for more fresh capital. All done to pay his dues to Boeing. Without those 400 mill NOK, net profit Q3 would have been all reds.
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A couple of articles about Norwegian and Q3 (in norwegian):
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"Flyselskapet Norwegian la i dag fram et overskudd før skatt på 581,7 millioner kroner.
EBITDA endte på 228,5 millioner kroner, opp fra 168,2 millioner i fjor. Marginene er dermed litt svakere enn samme periode i fjor. Deler av grunnen til at resultatet før skatt ble så mye bedre enn i fjor var at selskapet tidligere i uken meldte om 388 millioner kroner i finansielle inntekter som ikke har kontanteffekt.
Ved utgangen av kvartalet hadde selskapet 478,4 millioner i kontanter. Den underliggende driften går dårligere enn i fjor, og den operasjonelle kontantstrømmen endte på -312,0 millioner kroner, og selskapet brukte også 248,1 millioner kroner på investeringsaktiviteter i tredje kvartal."
Hele saken: Norwegian flyr høyt (om Bjørn Kjos, EBITDA, Norwegian) - NA24 Arkiv
------------------------
"Et av selskapene som trenger penger er Norwegian, som må ha én milliard kroner på to år, og må finansiere leveringen av nye fly om cirka et halvt år. Hvis det skulle bli for dyrt eller for vanskelig å låne penger, vurderer Norwegian nå å selge flyene, og lease dem tilbake."
Hele saken: DN.no - - Kan oppleve konkurser på Børsen
-------------------------
Personally, I think the future for DY is bright, but it depends a lot on how things will develop in Sweden, Poland and Denmark the next months. The .NO operation looks good and DY also showed nice traffic figures for November. But...new pilots have only been offered a 6 months contract and that tells me that DY is unsure how the market will develop the next year, so they are trying to save their butt in case everything goes down the drain. Even if we like it or not - DY is only doing business
-------------------------
"Flyselskapet Norwegian la i dag fram et overskudd før skatt på 581,7 millioner kroner.
EBITDA endte på 228,5 millioner kroner, opp fra 168,2 millioner i fjor. Marginene er dermed litt svakere enn samme periode i fjor. Deler av grunnen til at resultatet før skatt ble så mye bedre enn i fjor var at selskapet tidligere i uken meldte om 388 millioner kroner i finansielle inntekter som ikke har kontanteffekt.
Ved utgangen av kvartalet hadde selskapet 478,4 millioner i kontanter. Den underliggende driften går dårligere enn i fjor, og den operasjonelle kontantstrømmen endte på -312,0 millioner kroner, og selskapet brukte også 248,1 millioner kroner på investeringsaktiviteter i tredje kvartal."
Hele saken: Norwegian flyr høyt (om Bjørn Kjos, EBITDA, Norwegian) - NA24 Arkiv
------------------------
"Et av selskapene som trenger penger er Norwegian, som må ha én milliard kroner på to år, og må finansiere leveringen av nye fly om cirka et halvt år. Hvis det skulle bli for dyrt eller for vanskelig å låne penger, vurderer Norwegian nå å selge flyene, og lease dem tilbake."
Hele saken: DN.no - - Kan oppleve konkurser på Børsen
-------------------------
Personally, I think the future for DY is bright, but it depends a lot on how things will develop in Sweden, Poland and Denmark the next months. The .NO operation looks good and DY also showed nice traffic figures for November. But...new pilots have only been offered a 6 months contract and that tells me that DY is unsure how the market will develop the next year, so they are trying to save their butt in case everything goes down the drain. Even if we like it or not - DY is only doing business
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"RYR and/or ex. CST pilot with rejected pilot applications in NAS ??"
Any restrictions here that I am not aware of? If this forum is limited to NAS employees only, please delete my posts.
Financial reports are so full of smoke and mirrors that it is hard for RYR and/or ex. CST pilot with rejected pilot applications in NAS to tell why NAS has lost over 80% of its value during 2008. Complete bull**** or not, this is from NAS:
"Operating activities
Any restrictions here that I am not aware of? If this forum is limited to NAS employees only, please delete my posts.
Financial reports are so full of smoke and mirrors that it is hard for RYR and/or ex. CST pilot with rejected pilot applications in NAS to tell why NAS has lost over 80% of its value during 2008. Complete bull**** or not, this is from NAS:
"Operating activities
Cash flow in third quarter from operating activities amounted to MNOK -312.0, compared to
MNOK -68.1 in third quarter last year."
MNOK -68.1 in third quarter last year."
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RYR and/or ex. CST pilot with rejected pilot applications in NAS ??
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I really don´t know how Norwegian is managing to show a nice profit when almost all the other airlines are struggling. This with new aircrafts bought at an alleged record price. I smell a rat somewhere.
As we all know, financial results can be a bit misleading, made to look good or bad depending on your purpose...
As we all know, financial results can be a bit misleading, made to look good or bad depending on your purpose...
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Profit, scmofit - most of it was due to the USD-NOK exchange rate at the time the aircraft were bought - so maybe it was a good time to buy after all? Anyway - I doubt Boeing or Mr. Kjos himself will ever aknowledge any rumours about the actual price of the aircraft. But as is pointed out in the previous post - book keeping is an art... However - DY has a substantially lower unit cost (if that's the correct English term for it...) than SAS, and there is absolutely no reason why DY shouldn't be making money in the future. A lot of people are choosing DY these days.
I'm no expert in economics, but this makes for interesting reading...
I'm no expert in economics, but this makes for interesting reading...
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RYR 737-800 Jockey(Junkie.....)
Why are you so negative towards Mr. Kjos and his DY operation? Are you one of those who didn`t make it.....Actually I do not care, but if you are looking at the totale cost of the 737 operation in SAS vs. NAS, you will also see that SAS is now days on a very slippery rwy, with BA below .19!
Last edited by K21; 16th Dec 2008 at 14:56.
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Just my 2 cents...DY posted an operating profit in Q3 2008. The result was just over 320 MNOK for the quarter. This is for the pure operation of the airline, however does not include lease or depreciation expenses.
See on page 7.
http://www.norwegian.no/graphics/Inv..._08_Report.pdf
I seem to remember that DY had hedged its currency risk exposure to the USD when it purchased its 737s, which was the wrong move as the dollar fell. However, I can't remember the details. It's in the financial reports though.
See on page 7.
http://www.norwegian.no/graphics/Inv..._08_Report.pdf
I seem to remember that DY had hedged its currency risk exposure to the USD when it purchased its 737s, which was the wrong move as the dollar fell. However, I can't remember the details. It's in the financial reports though.
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39% of the sum was hedged. Hedging itself is a cost-demanding financial process. Mr. Kjos was making headlines in Finansavisen on this issue: http://www.hegnar.no/bors/article327597.ece
It remains an open issue what the future demand for US dollars in DY will be... and how it will work in relation to NOK.
It remains an open issue what the future demand for US dollars in DY will be... and how it will work in relation to NOK.
