Airbus 320
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Airbus 320
Hi. I have decided to take a A320 rating and 100 hrs of linetraing. The problem is that I dont know were I m going to take my rating and get my 100 hrs of linetraing for a good price. I have alredy heard about bond aviation, jats, sabena. Is there anyone who knows about other TRTO s that can provide a good education??? Plese help me...
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It´s not very easy to get a job lined up, specially not on a jet if you´re lowhoured.
I think the best shout you have is to take the rating, and hopefully afterwards you´re at the right place at the right time.
Having said that I´m not sure that buying a rating on the A320 is the best thing, but the choice is up to each one to make.
I have done it and landed a job before I was finnished but I was a bit lucky I guess. I also had some hours behind me wich probably helped.
I think the best shout you have is to take the rating, and hopefully afterwards you´re at the right place at the right time.
Having said that I´m not sure that buying a rating on the A320 is the best thing, but the choice is up to each one to make.
I have done it and landed a job before I was finnished but I was a bit lucky I guess. I also had some hours behind me wich probably helped.
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Try some of the turkish A320 series operators eg. freebird, atlasjet, onurair etc. they usually have foreigners flying for them who have bought a typerating + hours on type..
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Get a job with the small cargo companies, i.e. be a `van driver for a year, to get some real hands-on flying experience before applying to the airlines. It`s a pilot`s market these days, so don`t be fooled by the pay-to-work scams 
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Paying money for training+hour building in a jet is the reason pilots dont get paid enough. If you pay to fly a commercial jet you take the job away from a qualified pilot. People doing this should not be be in this industry!!!!!
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I agree. People buying type ratings and jobs have more money than brains! You better pray that those of us flying for the airlines with strong unions negociate well for you, so you manage to pay back your debts before retirement. Makes me wonder, if you are willing to pay for a job, you are probably willing to fly to 70 - because you´ll need to........
By supporting that kind of prostitution, you are making this industry a worse place to be!
By supporting that kind of prostitution, you are making this industry a worse place to be!
Join Date: May 2004
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And here is a solution!
Every pilot who has something to do with recruiting, please do never ever employ a pilot who has paid for line-flying. The problem exist also because people (don´t want to call them pilots because proffessional pilots get paid for working) actually get a job with respected airlines after having flown a few hundred hours with the scumbag airlines. Do not reward them!!! That would keep people away from bying hours on type.
Since IALPA every now and then puts bans on airlines for different reasons, put a ban on pilots who have paid for flying on the line with paying passangers.
TFM
Every pilot who has something to do with recruiting, please do never ever employ a pilot who has paid for line-flying. The problem exist also because people (don´t want to call them pilots because proffessional pilots get paid for working) actually get a job with respected airlines after having flown a few hundred hours with the scumbag airlines. Do not reward them!!! That would keep people away from bying hours on type.
Since IALPA every now and then puts bans on airlines for different reasons, put a ban on pilots who have paid for flying on the line with paying passangers.
TFM
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AMEN!!!!!!! I hope a pilot paying his way instead of working his way up, has a family member that needs brain surgery... The doctor comes in the doors and says: "I am a fresh doctor, this is my first time operating, I got this job cause i have a lot of money. But i think i am just as good as any doctor"
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Picking up this thread again with some comments...
The market is very different in the US and Europe, buying a TR is mandatory here in europe, there is not a chanse to get a job without bonding or paying for your rating on any machine! I think a couple of thousand pilots who has been in that situation can agree with me.
I bought my A320 TR last summer at Sabena, 8 months later I'm flying the A321 in a Turkish Airline. And I did not pay for hours!
My advise, buy a TR on a machine you like and then start looking for a job, within a year you will most probably have found one...
The market is very different in the US and Europe, buying a TR is mandatory here in europe, there is not a chanse to get a job without bonding or paying for your rating on any machine! I think a couple of thousand pilots who has been in that situation can agree with me.
I bought my A320 TR last summer at Sabena, 8 months later I'm flying the A321 in a Turkish Airline. And I did not pay for hours!
My advise, buy a TR on a machine you like and then start looking for a job, within a year you will most probably have found one...
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I`m kind of surprised that the media still hasn`t cought on to this scam. It seems that whatever they can write about aviation that is negative gets put in ink. Somewhere in there is a conspiracy theory as well, but as long as they get cheap tickets....
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Beech Driver,
At least prostitutes get paid for what they do.
Without getting moral about things, I suggest that the ones buying hours on type (..and thus put someone else out of paid work) are to be compared with the ones buying sex from the prostitutes.
If nobody paid for the service, nobody would be handing it out.
When all that is said and done, I do understand those that have been fed up waiting in a non-existant line, for a job that might never materialize.
Unless you have those precious 300-500 hrs on type,....you could be standing in line forever.
It's a cut-throat world out there, and good things come to those who go out there and make it happen! Not to the ones waiting for it to happen!
At least prostitutes get paid for what they do.
Without getting moral about things, I suggest that the ones buying hours on type (..and thus put someone else out of paid work) are to be compared with the ones buying sex from the prostitutes.
If nobody paid for the service, nobody would be handing it out.
When all that is said and done, I do understand those that have been fed up waiting in a non-existant line, for a job that might never materialize.
Unless you have those precious 300-500 hrs on type,....you could be standing in line forever.
It's a cut-throat world out there, and good things come to those who go out there and make it happen! Not to the ones waiting for it to happen!
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buying a TR is mandatory here in europe, there is not a chanse to get a job without bonding or paying for your rating on any machine!
That is probably the fastest self-fulfilling prophecy EVER!!!
How hard did you try before paying?
I am flying jet, rating paid by company, I still fly GA and I get paid for both... Whats the problem?
I took the time to investigate the market, make a decent CV and most important; made some contacts.
I am most satisfied to read the comments about banning the fly-for-free brigade. I strongly encourage anybody in any relevant position to support it.
You know what will happen when these spineless egocentric amateurs join our ranks - T&C going south, they have already established that they are willing to get shafted, why offer decent wages to anybody then.
"If you think you can or can't - you are right"
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I got the rating in may, got the job in june
Rating and 4500 hours was the ticket to get a job. They pay good, sooo my bank will have the money back within 2 years. Not bad i think
This is how it work guys. I know its a lot of money,, you just have to get used to this "crappy" aviation business.
Good Luck!
Rating and 4500 hours was the ticket to get a job. They pay good, sooo my bank will have the money back within 2 years. Not bad i think This is how it work guys. I know its a lot of money,, you just have to get used to this "crappy" aviation business.
Good Luck!
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Well - something is truly rotten in every European state, but we can only blame ourselves for the current state of affairs in aviation. The only way to stop the “madness” of paying for one's own rating is for the unions to bring the hammer down on this during the yearly negotiations with their respective companies. As long as the airline managers are allowed to divide and conquer, and keep hiring self-sponsored pilots, things will never improve.
Since our predecessors in this industry have made every effort to ensure that the seniority list trumps everything, you just have to go all-in and secure a job with one of the medium-sized-jet-operators as quickly as possible. Wasting time with a smaller operator (‘van job, as someone suggested here) will give you nothing, except a lost opportunity and a place further down on The List once you switch jobs. Working for a well-known ‘van-operator in Norway, with lousy pay, appalling working conditions, gaining little else but bad habits and two wasted years, is not that much better than starting on the B737 right away, with decent pay and respectable working conditions. It might even prove to be economically better in the long run!
Take Norway as an example; the only viable alternatives to SAS are DY and WF (possibly also Lufttransport). If you don't want to commute to Northern Norway, cannot pass the aptitude tests (and refuse to take a hint) or just have a personal goal of flying the big jets - why bother with WF (or any other operator for that matter)? Buy the rating, land that job, fly the required hours, and be on your way a.s.a.p. And no, not everyone can move or commute abroad if they want to salvage their marriage and act the part of a family man.
As long as this shortcut exists, and you can afford it, it is both an economically and professionally sound decision to seize upon this advantage.
Hanging around, acting all noble and waiting for a golden ticket to the Promised Land is not very prudent. You need to get ahead, and moral principles are second to mortgage payments and putting food on the table. Paying for a type rating is just an investment. It will set you back around 160-180k, but is it really any better to work at the local gas station, fly a measly 50-100 hours per year in the local flying club, being paid peanuts and barely make ends meet? Today's pilots already pay through the nose for their education, and I really cannot see the difference between paying for a CPL and paying for a type rating. This business is one of the most egotistical out there and you cannot count on anyone but yourself.
“I took the time to investigate the market, make a decent CV and most important; made some contacts”.
Who didn’t? And I would say that if you are required to kiss arse and befriend every sleazebag chief pilot, then it’s not your skills and qualifications that will land you that job anyway! This industry has always been rotten through and through - funding your type rating is just the latest fad. I remember the stories of people flying for free with (illegal) taxi/charter-ops in Sweden/Norway, driving their bosses cab at night, and working at the local gas station/grocery store in-between. I'm sure everyone who ever worked for any ole small-time operator in Norway or Sweden were very proud of their T&Cs, and got their job through thorough aptitude testing and fair play all the way...
I'm not saying I approve of the way things have turned out, but it really isn't up to each individual pilot to bring this trend to a halt.
“I am most satisfied to read the comments about banning the fly-for-free brigade. I strongly encourage anybody in any relevant position to support it.”
Exactly! The pilot unions are the only ones capable of really making a difference and turn things around. So stop bashing individuals, and start talking to you union representatives instead.
Since our predecessors in this industry have made every effort to ensure that the seniority list trumps everything, you just have to go all-in and secure a job with one of the medium-sized-jet-operators as quickly as possible. Wasting time with a smaller operator (‘van job, as someone suggested here) will give you nothing, except a lost opportunity and a place further down on The List once you switch jobs. Working for a well-known ‘van-operator in Norway, with lousy pay, appalling working conditions, gaining little else but bad habits and two wasted years, is not that much better than starting on the B737 right away, with decent pay and respectable working conditions. It might even prove to be economically better in the long run!
Take Norway as an example; the only viable alternatives to SAS are DY and WF (possibly also Lufttransport). If you don't want to commute to Northern Norway, cannot pass the aptitude tests (and refuse to take a hint) or just have a personal goal of flying the big jets - why bother with WF (or any other operator for that matter)? Buy the rating, land that job, fly the required hours, and be on your way a.s.a.p. And no, not everyone can move or commute abroad if they want to salvage their marriage and act the part of a family man.
As long as this shortcut exists, and you can afford it, it is both an economically and professionally sound decision to seize upon this advantage.
Hanging around, acting all noble and waiting for a golden ticket to the Promised Land is not very prudent. You need to get ahead, and moral principles are second to mortgage payments and putting food on the table. Paying for a type rating is just an investment. It will set you back around 160-180k, but is it really any better to work at the local gas station, fly a measly 50-100 hours per year in the local flying club, being paid peanuts and barely make ends meet? Today's pilots already pay through the nose for their education, and I really cannot see the difference between paying for a CPL and paying for a type rating. This business is one of the most egotistical out there and you cannot count on anyone but yourself.
“I took the time to investigate the market, make a decent CV and most important; made some contacts”.
Who didn’t? And I would say that if you are required to kiss arse and befriend every sleazebag chief pilot, then it’s not your skills and qualifications that will land you that job anyway! This industry has always been rotten through and through - funding your type rating is just the latest fad. I remember the stories of people flying for free with (illegal) taxi/charter-ops in Sweden/Norway, driving their bosses cab at night, and working at the local gas station/grocery store in-between. I'm sure everyone who ever worked for any ole small-time operator in Norway or Sweden were very proud of their T&Cs, and got their job through thorough aptitude testing and fair play all the way...
I'm not saying I approve of the way things have turned out, but it really isn't up to each individual pilot to bring this trend to a halt.
“I am most satisfied to read the comments about banning the fly-for-free brigade. I strongly encourage anybody in any relevant position to support it.”
Exactly! The pilot unions are the only ones capable of really making a difference and turn things around. So stop bashing individuals, and start talking to you union representatives instead.
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Crossunder, I agree 100% with you regarding the unions` needing to set their collective foot down. IFALPA should have this as one of their highest priorities, so they themselves can keep the upper hand in company negotiations and such. But, as long as it is the individuals, mostly straight out of flightschool, who are fed "this is the way it works, and your ticket in" who are conned into paying for a rating, and subsequently linetraining, then things are never going to change. As dushi mentions, it is the rating (which rating?) and 4500 hours that got him his job. Dude! It took you 4500 hours to get a descent job?!?!?! Please tell me it`s a DEC position
.
There are different kinds of pilots; those who are always looking for "one up" regarding size (maybe status, maybe personal wishes) and there are those who like to stay put since their T&Cs are totally acceptable. Good union negotiations are the cause of the latter.
Take a good look at what is happening now though. A lot of low-co airlines are facing bankruptcy, despite the fact that they claim to keep costs at a minimum. Pilots have paid their way in, and will have to pay once again when they are forced to find another job. Bad circle. More traditional airlines are still going strong, and unions are negotiating good T&Cs for their members. Of course this doesn`t apply to every single airline, but look at the Scandi market. SK, LT, WF all have received better T&Cs this year. DY was ok until management fronted a "voluntary 10% pay-cut in return for future stock options" (that is IF the company survives long enough. Tell me what kind of union would accept this kind of proposal? Maybe one where they have all paid for their jobs and now have to put their balls to the wall once again to have a chance of staying afloat? 
Crossunder, yes something is terribly wrong
. There are different kinds of pilots; those who are always looking for "one up" regarding size (maybe status, maybe personal wishes) and there are those who like to stay put since their T&Cs are totally acceptable. Good union negotiations are the cause of the latter.
Take a good look at what is happening now though. A lot of low-co airlines are facing bankruptcy, despite the fact that they claim to keep costs at a minimum. Pilots have paid their way in, and will have to pay once again when they are forced to find another job. Bad circle. More traditional airlines are still going strong, and unions are negotiating good T&Cs for their members
. Of course this doesn`t apply to every single airline, but look at the Scandi market. SK, LT, WF all have received better T&Cs this year. DY was ok until management fronted a "voluntary 10% pay-cut in return for future stock options" (that is IF the company survives long enough. Tell me what kind of union would accept this kind of proposal? Maybe one where they have all paid for their jobs and now have to put their balls to the wall once again to have a chance of staying afloat? Crossunder, yes something is terribly wrong