Freedom to SAS long haul pilots!
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freedom to SAS long haul pilots!
It is high time for us on the SAS long haul to start acting. So far we have trusted our unions, but I believe the unions are no longer worthy of our confidence.
In the latest and unsuccessful negotiations for a new collective agreement, it became evident that the long haul pilots should take the most of the impact of concessions given to the airline. And what would we get in return? Absolutely nothing! Nothing to compensate the sacrifices for the whole pilot corps.
The unions do not accept that we long haul pilots stay where we are without losing seniority and chances for future command. The result is a continuosly high turnover rate on pilots on our long haul operations, which carries a hefty price tag of training. This is not only expensive for the long haul operations, but also for the three individual SAS airlines in Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
In my opinion, we all loose on this system: the airlines due to the high costs; the pilots because of inflexibility and the lack of freedom to choose.
It is time that we long haulers take responsibilty for our own situation.
We deserve our own union!
We deserve our own seniority list!
We deserve the right to determine our own future!
We deserve the right to negotiate our own terms and conditions!
Why should we be forced to do the short haul? In order to give room for the short haul guys to come to us? It would be fair if we made long haul an independent carrier. If you want to join, start at the bottom as a relief pilot and work yourself up. Do not expect to surf straight into the left seat of our Airbuses if you have not paid your dues!
SS
In the latest and unsuccessful negotiations for a new collective agreement, it became evident that the long haul pilots should take the most of the impact of concessions given to the airline. And what would we get in return? Absolutely nothing! Nothing to compensate the sacrifices for the whole pilot corps.
The unions do not accept that we long haul pilots stay where we are without losing seniority and chances for future command. The result is a continuosly high turnover rate on pilots on our long haul operations, which carries a hefty price tag of training. This is not only expensive for the long haul operations, but also for the three individual SAS airlines in Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
In my opinion, we all loose on this system: the airlines due to the high costs; the pilots because of inflexibility and the lack of freedom to choose.
It is time that we long haulers take responsibilty for our own situation.
We deserve our own union!
We deserve our own seniority list!
We deserve the right to determine our own future!
We deserve the right to negotiate our own terms and conditions!
Why should we be forced to do the short haul? In order to give room for the short haul guys to come to us? It would be fair if we made long haul an independent carrier. If you want to join, start at the bottom as a relief pilot and work yourself up. Do not expect to surf straight into the left seat of our Airbuses if you have not paid your dues!
SS
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: EU
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have got to be kidding sassurvivor That is one of the most stupid posts I ve seen on the Scandi forum for a long time. You don t stand a chance dude. Forget it, and get on with life!
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Denmark
Age: 77
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't be a fool Heavydane, - he must be from management.
I have met a few stupid pilot colleages in my time, but none as stupid at this one.
This fella, SASsurvivor, is in a special class of his own, and i doubt very much if he has ever seen an aircraft from a pilot seat.
He is just not smart enough, - otherwise he would have known how to express himself in a way to be taken just a bit serious.
No, - he is definitely management, a smarta.. that thinks he kan screw us all and get away with it.
B
I have met a few stupid pilot colleages in my time, but none as stupid at this one.
This fella, SASsurvivor, is in a special class of his own, and i doubt very much if he has ever seen an aircraft from a pilot seat.
He is just not smart enough, - otherwise he would have known how to express himself in a way to be taken just a bit serious.
No, - he is definitely management, a smarta.. that thinks he kan screw us all and get away with it.
B
Last edited by Bad-Man; 3rd May 2006 at 18:58.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Payscale,
You should rather be appreceative of all inputs you get, which enables you to know your enemy.
Too many union members within SAS are too timid to voice out their opinions, mainly because the hostility towards pilots with another mindset than the majority is overwelming. Does that work in favour of our unions?
I think not!
SS
You should rather be appreceative of all inputs you get, which enables you to know your enemy.
Too many union members within SAS are too timid to voice out their opinions, mainly because the hostility towards pilots with another mindset than the majority is overwelming. Does that work in favour of our unions?
I think not!
SS
Join Date: May 2006
Location: desktop
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only flamebait!
Good flamebait SASsurvivor!
On a serious note, assuming you actually work in the SAS Groupe, here is what I don’t understand.
SAS is an airline with:
· Experienced pilots that don't want to go interview at Ryanair or with others and loose retirement
· Have the ingredients it takes to be successful (competitors make money with similar pay scales and annual workdays)
· Growth hampered by inefficient management and arguments about an unfair merger which is good only for a few acquired pilots but legally hard to turn over
Why don’t you grow like your competitors, outgrow the seniority issues and focus on making money by dealing with inefficient management first?
On a serious note, assuming you actually work in the SAS Groupe, here is what I don’t understand.
SAS is an airline with:
· Experienced pilots that don't want to go interview at Ryanair or with others and loose retirement
· Have the ingredients it takes to be successful (competitors make money with similar pay scales and annual workdays)
· Growth hampered by inefficient management and arguments about an unfair merger which is good only for a few acquired pilots but legally hard to turn over
Why don’t you grow like your competitors, outgrow the seniority issues and focus on making money by dealing with inefficient management first?
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isolationism!! It doesn't work
I recognize this as flamebait, no problem there.
But there are pilots in our group who actually have these ideas and who have made themselves believe the twisted logic of management. They frigthen me more than SAS management as they seem to gravitate towards the 'quick and easy' fixes.
If we go the way of JL and his cronies we are ALL finished.
Regards,
Ramrise
But there are pilots in our group who actually have these ideas and who have made themselves believe the twisted logic of management. They frigthen me more than SAS management as they seem to gravitate towards the 'quick and easy' fixes.
If we go the way of JL and his cronies we are ALL finished.
Regards,
Ramrise
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Finally some proper feed back here!
There are good reasons for your views (or fears), Ramrise. Colleagues without any sense of loyalty to the unions are a great threat to our future. One of the challenges for the unions is that these people do not work in the open. They work with their allies, members of "pilotforbundet", colleagues close to the age of 60 etc. They would never voice out their opinions in discussions, but rather "sign up" in private when their oportunity comes.
Personally, I do not think this system with many small airlines will last. In some time a new manager will replace JL, and he will probably see how much SAS can save with a merger (this is after all what other airlines do). If we have been able to maintain our union structure to this point, we are safe, but until that day we, have dozens of challenges. The key issue here is perceverance, and that is what all of us should keep in mind.
I notice that cfs80 does not agree in venting these concerns on this forum. But I think this is like AIDS: if you do not talk about it, and make everyone aware of it, it will infect us all!
Aviationreporters responce is interesting.
Your first concern is probably rooted in the SAS pilots culture. The average SAS pilot has never been very keen to leave his/her airline, but rather been quite sceptical of other operators and environments. This is however in the process of changing as an increasing number of pilots realize that their future prospects with SAS is somewhat limited.
The other two issues are probably about the same thing: incompetent management. The unions have given great concessions to the company, and there is absolutely no reason why all SAS owned ailines should not make money. The corporate culture is very much centered about job protection for management, social democratic government inheritance and the lacking ability to realize that SAS could learn from other operators. As I see it, SAS needs to get some new inputs, they need to get some new management from the rest of the aviation world and stop recruiting internally bred managers. The airlines have been moving in circles for more than half a century while the rest of the world has become more globally oriented!
SS
There are good reasons for your views (or fears), Ramrise. Colleagues without any sense of loyalty to the unions are a great threat to our future. One of the challenges for the unions is that these people do not work in the open. They work with their allies, members of "pilotforbundet", colleagues close to the age of 60 etc. They would never voice out their opinions in discussions, but rather "sign up" in private when their oportunity comes.
Personally, I do not think this system with many small airlines will last. In some time a new manager will replace JL, and he will probably see how much SAS can save with a merger (this is after all what other airlines do). If we have been able to maintain our union structure to this point, we are safe, but until that day we, have dozens of challenges. The key issue here is perceverance, and that is what all of us should keep in mind.
I notice that cfs80 does not agree in venting these concerns on this forum. But I think this is like AIDS: if you do not talk about it, and make everyone aware of it, it will infect us all!
Aviationreporters responce is interesting.
Your first concern is probably rooted in the SAS pilots culture. The average SAS pilot has never been very keen to leave his/her airline, but rather been quite sceptical of other operators and environments. This is however in the process of changing as an increasing number of pilots realize that their future prospects with SAS is somewhat limited.
The other two issues are probably about the same thing: incompetent management. The unions have given great concessions to the company, and there is absolutely no reason why all SAS owned ailines should not make money. The corporate culture is very much centered about job protection for management, social democratic government inheritance and the lacking ability to realize that SAS could learn from other operators. As I see it, SAS needs to get some new inputs, they need to get some new management from the rest of the aviation world and stop recruiting internally bred managers. The airlines have been moving in circles for more than half a century while the rest of the world has become more globally oriented!
SS
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SASsurvivor
It is time that we long haulers take responsibilty for our own situation.
We deserve our own union!
We deserve our own union!
Originally Posted by SASsurvivor
If we have been able to maintain our union structure to this point, we are safe, but until that day we, have dozens of challenges. The key issue here is perceverance, and that is what all of us should keep in mind.
So I won't.
