SAS/Braathens piloter
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Why would anyone in their right mind chose to join a list including Sweden and Denmark, both with individual losses in the range of one billion NOK, while SAS Braathens are raking in the $$$$.
Kastrup is old glory and will sooner than you think be bypassed in order to better serve the customers up north (CPH is OK if you have an extra day to spare to reach your destination) - where will SAS Denmark be then.
Besides why would ANYONE accept a loss of seniority.....just because a SAS pilot said so?
Have a wonderful day!
Kastrup is old glory and will sooner than you think be bypassed in order to better serve the customers up north (CPH is OK if you have an extra day to spare to reach your destination) - where will SAS Denmark be then.
Besides why would ANYONE accept a loss of seniority.....just because a SAS pilot said so?
Have a wonderful day!
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Ok...
Ok,
let me be frank. WE will get our way. Sooner or later. Why?
Because unity is a good and smart thing. We need to be united when facing the company, and, believe ot or not, I would welcome any number of pilots as they would help to make us ALL stronger. Now, some of the individual commercial entities might be losing a lot of money(that will change in time, in some years the situation could be reversed). The beauty of one big, strong list is that we, the pilots, share the flying(the goodies) and also the risks. The notion of isolating one self because ones country is, for the time being, experiencing a healthy economy is not thought through. It is very short sighted and plays into the hands of the company.
We are not out to shaft anybody. On the contrary, we would rather see many pilots join the list. THAT BENEFITS EVERYBODY. However, there has to be a price of admission.
SAS will be strong again, Long Haul will make money, the CPH hub will prosper and kombilisten will be the list to join.
I have tried to approach this form a positive angle, to provide a few positive reasons why I think that one big strong list is better. I think there are good, objective reasons for BU pilots to join the list.
Mvh Ramrise
let me be frank. WE will get our way. Sooner or later. Why?
Because unity is a good and smart thing. We need to be united when facing the company, and, believe ot or not, I would welcome any number of pilots as they would help to make us ALL stronger. Now, some of the individual commercial entities might be losing a lot of money(that will change in time, in some years the situation could be reversed). The beauty of one big, strong list is that we, the pilots, share the flying(the goodies) and also the risks. The notion of isolating one self because ones country is, for the time being, experiencing a healthy economy is not thought through. It is very short sighted and plays into the hands of the company.
We are not out to shaft anybody. On the contrary, we would rather see many pilots join the list. THAT BENEFITS EVERYBODY. However, there has to be a price of admission.
SAS will be strong again, Long Haul will make money, the CPH hub will prosper and kombilisten will be the list to join.
I have tried to approach this form a positive angle, to provide a few positive reasons why I think that one big strong list is better. I think there are good, objective reasons for BU pilots to join the list.
Mvh Ramrise
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Not so strange.
Allthough I can agree with some of your opinions, there is something with your attitude that somehow tells me there is no point in answering your postings.
Buy now the unions have finished the negotiations and the voting is finished.We have an agreement, that`s it.
When you still demand that there should be a penalty for joining a list that for the moment is very hypothetical to BU pilots, to say the least, you can`t expect to get any feedback.
As far as I know there is not much interest to join that list at all.
To tell other colleges they have to give up 5 years of their seniority to join your list is considered a bad joke.
Personally, I `ve been flying for so many years that I have learned to respect my colleges in other companies. One day most of us will sit in the same cockpit even if we worked for different ones the day before.
What you demand, is that this respect will come with a cost.
I think you have to realise that what`s happening in your company dictates that if you want unity, you must meet your friends on equal terms.
What you are offering is an insult .
Have a nice day!
Allthough I can agree with some of your opinions, there is something with your attitude that somehow tells me there is no point in answering your postings.
Buy now the unions have finished the negotiations and the voting is finished.We have an agreement, that`s it.
When you still demand that there should be a penalty for joining a list that for the moment is very hypothetical to BU pilots, to say the least, you can`t expect to get any feedback.
As far as I know there is not much interest to join that list at all.
To tell other colleges they have to give up 5 years of their seniority to join your list is considered a bad joke.
Personally, I `ve been flying for so many years that I have learned to respect my colleges in other companies. One day most of us will sit in the same cockpit even if we worked for different ones the day before.
What you demand, is that this respect will come with a cost.
I think you have to realise that what`s happening in your company dictates that if you want unity, you must meet your friends on equal terms.
What you are offering is an insult .
Have a nice day!
Join Date: Oct 2003
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How can employees in a company which has been bought by a bigger one, demand anything at all? Just curious.
Wasn't BU on the verge of bankruptcy when being bought. Equal terms, you say..if SAS had let you go bankrupt first, what then?
Wasn't BU on the verge of bankruptcy when being bought. Equal terms, you say..if SAS had let you go bankrupt first, what then?
Join Date: Sep 2004
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In most aquisitions and mergers, the employees are given certain rights laid down in the applicable labour laws.
According to this, the employees from ex Braathens can "demand" their legal rights, just as SAS employees can.
SAS did have the sense NOT to let Braathens enter into bankruptcy. Someone else would have bought the company and given SAS real competition in the nordic market. Investors were willing to gamble on a dark horse called "Norwegian", just imagine how difficult it would have been to get someone to fund an operating airline..
Somehow Braathens is the major moneymaker for SAS now, just as anything else with the SAS name on it is losing money hand over fist.
-1.8 billion SKr during fiscal year 2004 is not very good..
The only list which can bring unity to the SAS group pilots, will be a list including Linjeflyg, SAS Commuter, SAS Airline and Braathens
where date of hire will be the only factor affecting your position.
Uopgrades/downgrades of Captains/ FO's will have to take place, but it will be fair.
Put a freeze on type transitions and bases to reduce the training cost, but payscales shall reflect years with the company.
Braathens pilots are very smart in staying away from the kombilist, as the next reductions will come in Denmark and Sweden. And they will come, just look at the balance sheet!
If a common list had been made, even Braathens pilots could be terminated due to reductions in Sweden and Denmark.
Right now, I think the deal is only if reductions happen in Norway, the BU pilots will be affected.
Almost like protecting endangered wildlife, courtesy SAS pilot unions, which think the kombilist is the stairway to heaven.
And Ramrise, you are right when you state unity gives strenght.
But only when everyone is treated equally and fair. Just ask any SASCommuter or Linjeflyg pilot, I suspect the disintegration of the kombilist will start from within.
In it's current form, it's more like a highway to hell..
Most of us who have been in this business long enough, realize luck/bad luck is the name of the game. To pay a entry fee is OK at a night club, but not when it comes to seniority which is legally regulated.
BU pilots are doing the right thing by refusing.
SAS will be added to this infamous list of Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, Swissair, Sabena etc. within 2-4 years if the company does not get it's act together and starts making money.
Let us hope for SAS pilots it will happen soon, the Braathens guys are sitting fat and happy right now.
Their company is making money.
And that is what counts in this business.
According to this, the employees from ex Braathens can "demand" their legal rights, just as SAS employees can.
SAS did have the sense NOT to let Braathens enter into bankruptcy. Someone else would have bought the company and given SAS real competition in the nordic market. Investors were willing to gamble on a dark horse called "Norwegian", just imagine how difficult it would have been to get someone to fund an operating airline..
Somehow Braathens is the major moneymaker for SAS now, just as anything else with the SAS name on it is losing money hand over fist.
-1.8 billion SKr during fiscal year 2004 is not very good..
The only list which can bring unity to the SAS group pilots, will be a list including Linjeflyg, SAS Commuter, SAS Airline and Braathens
where date of hire will be the only factor affecting your position.
Uopgrades/downgrades of Captains/ FO's will have to take place, but it will be fair.
Put a freeze on type transitions and bases to reduce the training cost, but payscales shall reflect years with the company.
Braathens pilots are very smart in staying away from the kombilist, as the next reductions will come in Denmark and Sweden. And they will come, just look at the balance sheet!
If a common list had been made, even Braathens pilots could be terminated due to reductions in Sweden and Denmark.
Right now, I think the deal is only if reductions happen in Norway, the BU pilots will be affected.
Almost like protecting endangered wildlife, courtesy SAS pilot unions, which think the kombilist is the stairway to heaven.
And Ramrise, you are right when you state unity gives strenght.
But only when everyone is treated equally and fair. Just ask any SASCommuter or Linjeflyg pilot, I suspect the disintegration of the kombilist will start from within.
In it's current form, it's more like a highway to hell..
Most of us who have been in this business long enough, realize luck/bad luck is the name of the game. To pay a entry fee is OK at a night club, but not when it comes to seniority which is legally regulated.
BU pilots are doing the right thing by refusing.
SAS will be added to this infamous list of Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, Swissair, Sabena etc. within 2-4 years if the company does not get it's act together and starts making money.
Let us hope for SAS pilots it will happen soon, the Braathens guys are sitting fat and happy right now.
Their company is making money.
And that is what counts in this business.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Det skal bli interessant å se når BU gutta skjønner at de ikke er guds gave til SAS, men kunn et redskap til å knuse foreningene mm. Hvis vi sier at SAS pilotene er dyre og ineffektive, er BU pilotene de nest dyreste. Alle andre i SAS konsortiet er billigere/effektivere. Hvem skal da sette standaren for hvor effektive/billige vi skal være?
Konkurrentene?
Hvor er det minst konkurranse i øyeblikket? Norsk inneriks.
Hvor er det mest konkurranse i øyeblikket? Svensk inneriks og Europa trafikken fra Kastrup.
Legger vi til langrutetrafikken så er dette helhets bildet til SAS.
Helhetsbildet sett ut i fra en ex BUer virker som om kun dreier seg om hva som skjer i Norge.
Hvis SAS Danmark ikke tjener penger skal det legges ned?
Jeg er stygt redd for at ex BU ere snart kommer til å forstå at tidene fort kan forandre seg.
Å stå sammen lønner seg i lengden og SAS består av mer enn SAS/Braathens.
Konkurrentene?
Hvor er det minst konkurranse i øyeblikket? Norsk inneriks.
Hvor er det mest konkurranse i øyeblikket? Svensk inneriks og Europa trafikken fra Kastrup.
Legger vi til langrutetrafikken så er dette helhets bildet til SAS.
Helhetsbildet sett ut i fra en ex BUer virker som om kun dreier seg om hva som skjer i Norge.
Hvis SAS Danmark ikke tjener penger skal det legges ned?
Jeg er stygt redd for at ex BU ere snart kommer til å forstå at tidene fort kan forandre seg.
Å stå sammen lønner seg i lengden og SAS består av mer enn SAS/Braathens.
Join Date: May 2001
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Diper..?
Is that short for Dipstick?
BU pilots have never claimed to be Gods gift to anyone, as opposed some other guys we know! The only thing we want is to follow norwegian law!
Where did you get that from? As long as Norwegian exists we have plenty of competition on domestic and south european routes!
Yes chop CPH! The danes will drag the hole of SAS down the tubes if nothing is done! CPH as a HUB was fine 10 years ago but the world has changed. Norwegian and swedish pax are sick of having to pass through the mini HUB that CPH is! If they can´t go direct from OSL or ARN they´ll rather go via AMS, LON or FRA.
CPH will never be able to compete with them again!
Diper, time to wake up and smell the roses!
Is that short for Dipstick?
BU pilots have never claimed to be Gods gift to anyone, as opposed some other guys we know! The only thing we want is to follow norwegian law!
Hvor er det minst konkurranse i øyeblikket? Norsk inneriks.
Helhetsbildet sett ut i fra en ex BUer virker som om kun dreier seg om hva som skjer i Norge.
CPH will never be able to compete with them again!
Diper, time to wake up and smell the roses!
Join Date: Jun 2000
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The BU guys around here are certainly living up to the stereotype of norwegians being gullible.
But why do you kombi-boys care?
They'll learn the hard way, sooner rather than later, and you can all have a good snicker at their expense then.
Leave 'em be, ignorance is bliss.
But why do you kombi-boys care?
They'll learn the hard way, sooner rather than later, and you can all have a good snicker at their expense then.
Leave 'em be, ignorance is bliss.
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Hotel Charlie,
My bet is that SAS/BU is content to see Norwegian still flying. They are not (yet) a real threat, and they make it hard for the authorities to claim that SAS/BU is a monopoly. If Norwegian goes out of business a void will appear and nobody knows who might show up as a contender. The idea that there is genuine competition in Norway is just that, an idea.
Your provincial way of viewing the world really shows itself. Whether you like it or not you are now part of a bigger group of pilots. For the time being your 'membership' is not a full one, but it will be someday. You allowed yourself to be used as a wrecking ball against the SAS pilot group and we didn't particularly like it. Now it has ended and that is the way it will be.
If people like you would work for the good of the company you would try to support the CPH hub. After all it is your own company the flies there, I am sorry, OUR company. Mine and yours. We need to boost the hub and enable it to compete with FRA or AMS. It is the only way WE as a group will survive as we are all very dependant on the long haul production to be profitable. One of our problems is that long haul is just now starting to make money. If we can grow that segment the future will look a lot brigther. Coincidently, scandinavia is just too small for too may direct flights. Unless you would have us fly 50-75 seat aircraft with the payscale that comes with aircraft like that. This leaves us with the hub approach.
Again, rather than arguing about how we want the world to be, we should talk about the world as it is. I still believe that one list is the way forward. Both for you and me.
I believe that the threat of lay offs is gone. Rumour has it that we will recall some of the laid off pilots. Hopefully this will ease some of the fear of 'kombilisten' as the risk of being laid off lessens.
As much as we all like the idea of secluding our selves and just dealing with the issues close at hand we cant afford to do that. We are in a business which by it's very nature invites people to play in our backyards. I see myself as having three backyards. I have some 115 aircraft (Q400, MD80/90, B737, A321, A330/340) I think it is, in my company. Why do you volontarily limit yourself to 26 B737 in OSl? I honestly don't see the point. And with the new §16 I can bid on any of them if I want to. I still think that for us pilots 'kombilisten' has more to offer. It gives us strength and the ability to, when it is absolutely necessary, tell management where we are going. We did it last august and we will do it again if needed.
Regards,
Ramrise
My bet is that SAS/BU is content to see Norwegian still flying. They are not (yet) a real threat, and they make it hard for the authorities to claim that SAS/BU is a monopoly. If Norwegian goes out of business a void will appear and nobody knows who might show up as a contender. The idea that there is genuine competition in Norway is just that, an idea.
Your provincial way of viewing the world really shows itself. Whether you like it or not you are now part of a bigger group of pilots. For the time being your 'membership' is not a full one, but it will be someday. You allowed yourself to be used as a wrecking ball against the SAS pilot group and we didn't particularly like it. Now it has ended and that is the way it will be.
If people like you would work for the good of the company you would try to support the CPH hub. After all it is your own company the flies there, I am sorry, OUR company. Mine and yours. We need to boost the hub and enable it to compete with FRA or AMS. It is the only way WE as a group will survive as we are all very dependant on the long haul production to be profitable. One of our problems is that long haul is just now starting to make money. If we can grow that segment the future will look a lot brigther. Coincidently, scandinavia is just too small for too may direct flights. Unless you would have us fly 50-75 seat aircraft with the payscale that comes with aircraft like that. This leaves us with the hub approach.
Again, rather than arguing about how we want the world to be, we should talk about the world as it is. I still believe that one list is the way forward. Both for you and me.
I believe that the threat of lay offs is gone. Rumour has it that we will recall some of the laid off pilots. Hopefully this will ease some of the fear of 'kombilisten' as the risk of being laid off lessens.
As much as we all like the idea of secluding our selves and just dealing with the issues close at hand we cant afford to do that. We are in a business which by it's very nature invites people to play in our backyards. I see myself as having three backyards. I have some 115 aircraft (Q400, MD80/90, B737, A321, A330/340) I think it is, in my company. Why do you volontarily limit yourself to 26 B737 in OSl? I honestly don't see the point. And with the new §16 I can bid on any of them if I want to. I still think that for us pilots 'kombilisten' has more to offer. It gives us strength and the ability to, when it is absolutely necessary, tell management where we are going. We did it last august and we will do it again if needed.
Regards,
Ramrise
Join Date: Sep 2004
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I am totally amused about the replies of SK buying a bankrupt BU... Get a life guys!! I've been with SAS since 1988 and we have never ever been a totally private, independent company making it on our own without the Scandinavian governments subsidizing the whole thing. SAS is bankrupt as of now and it is a joke that some of you guys seem to think that "our" SAS is buying up BU and thus saving their jobs. We in SAS would have been out of business long time ago, longer time ago than BU if normal, fundamental financial rules were in force.
All of us should be glad this soap opera of SK, LF and BU have made us some very well paid pilots over the years. There are other times nowadays and we are paying the price for being a bunch of stupid ostriches sticking our heads into the ground....
All of us should be glad this soap opera of SK, LF and BU have made us some very well paid pilots over the years. There are other times nowadays and we are paying the price for being a bunch of stupid ostriches sticking our heads into the ground....
Join Date: Oct 2004
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SAS Danmark har laveste belægningsprocent
SAS Danmark
Første sammenligning mellem de tre skandinaviske SAS- selskaber i koncernen offentliggjort for januar.
Med den ny struktur i SAS kan man i fremtiden måned for måned måle, hvordan de tre skandinaviske selskaber i flyselskabet står i forhold til hinanden. De første tal for januar offentliggøres nu i koncernens blad, Inside SAS.
Resultatet falder dårligt ud for SAS Danmark, der kan notere et fald såvel i trafik som gennemsnitsbelægning på ca. tre procent. På grund af overkapacitet på visse strækninger ud af København faldt gennemsnitsbelægningen til 45,4 procent.
Så gik det bedre i Norge, hvor trafikken steg over hele linien, og kabinefaktoren (gennemsnitsbelægningen) steg med seks procent til 53.
I Sverige voksede trafikken godt to procent, mens kabinefaktoren stort set var uændret i 51,4 procent. I Sverige er der benhård og tabsgivende trafik på flere indenrigsruter, mens det går fremad til udlandet. I Danmark er det lige omvendt.
SAS Danmark
Første sammenligning mellem de tre skandinaviske SAS- selskaber i koncernen offentliggjort for januar.
Med den ny struktur i SAS kan man i fremtiden måned for måned måle, hvordan de tre skandinaviske selskaber i flyselskabet står i forhold til hinanden. De første tal for januar offentliggøres nu i koncernens blad, Inside SAS.
Resultatet falder dårligt ud for SAS Danmark, der kan notere et fald såvel i trafik som gennemsnitsbelægning på ca. tre procent. På grund af overkapacitet på visse strækninger ud af København faldt gennemsnitsbelægningen til 45,4 procent.
Så gik det bedre i Norge, hvor trafikken steg over hele linien, og kabinefaktoren (gennemsnitsbelægningen) steg med seks procent til 53.
I Sverige voksede trafikken godt to procent, mens kabinefaktoren stort set var uændret i 51,4 procent. I Sverige er der benhård og tabsgivende trafik på flere indenrigsruter, mens det går fremad til udlandet. I Danmark er det lige omvendt.
Join Date: May 2001
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Kingsnake:
Well there was an agreement but the SK guys decided to renegotiate it with Lindergaard and co behind the backs of the BU pilots and the SAS Braathens managment!! How about them apples?? 
There is only one fitting word for the SK guys (or at least PFOR): unreal!
may they burn in H...!
Whats all the fuss now from Braathens pilots wanting to renegotiate the BUSK agreement?????????
There is only one fitting word for the SK guys (or at least PFOR): unreal!
may they burn in H...!
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Hotel Charlie,
With every reply from you, it becomes increasingly evident why you should never have been let in through the backdoor to SAS.
The deal is that Danish and Swedish pilots fly passive to Oslo when they accept a Cdr. position in Oslo. Well of course. Just as Oslo pilots travel passive when they go to CPH to do a sling out of Copenhagen or Stockholm.Happening as we speak.
Is your problem, that you had hoped to make the terms so bad for DK and SE pilots, that they would pass on their rightful Cdr. appointment in OSL, so that BU pilots further down the list would jump ahead?? Some colleague you are!
Boy I´m glad I won´t have to fly out that madhouse up there.
With every reply from you, it becomes increasingly evident why you should never have been let in through the backdoor to SAS.
The deal is that Danish and Swedish pilots fly passive to Oslo when they accept a Cdr. position in Oslo. Well of course. Just as Oslo pilots travel passive when they go to CPH to do a sling out of Copenhagen or Stockholm.Happening as we speak.
Is your problem, that you had hoped to make the terms so bad for DK and SE pilots, that they would pass on their rightful Cdr. appointment in OSL, so that BU pilots further down the list would jump ahead?? Some colleague you are!
Boy I´m glad I won´t have to fly out that madhouse up there.
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Likewise Hotel Charlie,
YOU had the offer of having those same rights, but you and your union did not want anything to do with DK-SE and the kombilist, and the rights that come with it.
YOU made your choices. Time to realise that you´re part of a bigger company, whether you like it or not, you won´t get rid of SE and DK. Live with it, or seek elsewhere.
YOU had the offer of having those same rights, but you and your union did not want anything to do with DK-SE and the kombilist, and the rights that come with it.
YOU made your choices. Time to realise that you´re part of a bigger company, whether you like it or not, you won´t get rid of SE and DK. Live with it, or seek elsewhere.
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My how will this all end? Any suggestions??
By the way Hotel Charlie - are you quite sure your local management is as ignorant as they claim. Seems a convinient management excuse.
Good luck on agreeing guys - sounds like management is ahead on points right now
By the way Hotel Charlie - are you quite sure your local management is as ignorant as they claim. Seems a convinient management excuse.
Good luck on agreeing guys - sounds like management is ahead on points right now