The M (originally Aermacchi) 345 is a development of the M211 and is thus basically a 28 year old design; doesn't the RAF deserve something more recent?
The Aeralis is 'due to fly next year', a situation which has existed for several years.

Correct, the T345 is essentially a redesigned and modernised S211 whose lineage is circa 1982 give or take. The aircraft at Boscombe is in the U.K. for trials activity and is not being evaluated for use by either RAFAT or Phase 4. If, and I guess it’s still a big if, the RAF were to move ahead with replacing Hawk in total then unless you like small batch craft gin it’s T346, T-50 or T-7. As an outside bet, I wouldn’t put it past BAE to try and politicise this with a Typhoon for Hurjet deal or insist whatever is chosen is licensed built in the U.K. with some bespoke systems.

Exactly……

RAF is grob -> texan and either hawk or phenom 100 from what a former RAF pilot told me

Rattman
 

Close.

Grob 120 at Cranwell or Barkston Heath. Streamed after this to either Multi (Phenom), Rotary (Juno/Jupiter) or FJ (Texan). FJ candidates receive a little extra Grob 120 time before Texan.

Successfully completion of Texan will see progress onto Hawk T2. Both of these are at Valley.

The FJ stream currently have other options for aircraft and locations but the progression is broadly similar.

BV

If that's true what do 16 Squadron at Wittering do? They are equipped with the Grob Tutor T1 and according to the RAF web page they also provide elementary flying training.

It’s a good Q as to what they really do. EFT is no longer taught on Tutor within UKMFTS, presently I believe their (16 Sqn) main effort is UKR. What they do beyond that is convert folk to Tutor and some QFI instruction. Time to rethink that self-licking lollipop 🍭 that is CFS and its B2, B1, A2 nonsense.

Worth noting the syllabus flown on UAS (6 FTS) isn’t recognised as it was excluded from the scope of the training system.

So what is the role of the Tutor fleet; are there still UAS' and AEFs' and where are they?

The Multi Pilots do some extra Prefect flying too, pre-MEPT. Known as Multi-Engine Lead In (MELIN).

Also, there are now 4 streams for RAF Pilots:

1. Fast Jet
2. Multi-Engine
3. Remotely Pilot Air Systems
4. Rotary Wing

All RAF Pilots do EFT on the Prefect -about 30hrs live fly and about 20hrs synthetic. Then they are streamed to one of 4 streams above.

Finally, RN FAA baby Pilots do roughly 20-25hrs on the Tutor for RN Flying Grading and the AAC do roughly 12-15hrs on the Tutor for Army Flying Grading. Thus, those going to helicopters at RAF Shawbury on 1FTS from the RN FAA and AAC never touch Prefect.

The other thing that 16 Sqn do is ISTAR Tutor Mission Aircrew flying training. An 8hr flying package of basic navigation, fuel management and comms exercises to build airmanship before some do more flying training on the King Air Avenger or PA-31 Panther. Sometimes this is farmed out to a UAS if 16 Sqn are busy with UKR baby pilots.

Amazing how out of date some folks are on here :ok:

Fortunately being "out of date" has never been a bar to posting on pprunemil, indeed some might say it is a prerequisite!

Cpl Clott
 

Since this thread is about the Hawk and my reply was tailored towards a previous post regarding the Hawk pathway, I’ll admit that I simplified things a little. But your extra detail is appreciated nonetheless.

BV

How will FIRCTS alter the Mission Aircrew element for RAF WSOps and others? I also wonder whether it’s time to question the need for 3-types in the fast jet pipeline, I’d also ask similar around multi-engine and using a biz jet……

But 115 Squadron is the CFS Tutor Squadron, so is 16 Sqn just Ukranian students or do they do some elementary stuff for RPAS aircrew.
And who trains Prefect QFI’s?

Good to know Valley has 2 serviceable Hawks....
😁

A bit of an exchange on twitter......

One wonders whether we could look a bit more 'out of the box' and consider local manufacture of something like the KAI T-50. Similar flyaway cost to the '346 apparently.

Given the X-Whitehall views toward RoK a FACO via LM must sound appealing.

Not after the AIR Staff have gold plated the spec, the Treasury have penny pinched the support contract and assorted Ministers have interfered with the procurement process in claimed the interest of jobs in UK.

On a slight side note, how does this work in practise? It used to be that everyone was initially streamed for FJ, and then those deemed not quite up to scratch were diverted to ME and RW. Is this still the case, and how does RPAS fit into this - can someone say they want to be a drone pilot/operator from the start, or do they first have to be chopped from FJ?