BAE Systems Hawk Replacement?

[Bonkey]

Anyone know what the next-gen jet Trainer will be for the RAF and RN in the UK? The basic Hawk concept is now 50 years old so wondered if the MoD is looking at a replacement? Or is it all about simulators nowadays - even for basic FJ training?

Is the Boeing-Saab T-7 under any consideration?

[OvertHawk]

oh Boy...

Here we go... Warm up the popcorn!

[LateArmLive]

What it "should" be, and what it "will" be are almost certainly two different things. A bit like when the Hawk T2/Mk128 was procured...and look how that turned out.

Realistically, there are 3 options. T7 (which is unproven and the USAF aren't entirely happy with it yet). M346 which has been in service and proven by NATO allies. Or T50, which is the most capable but not yet as well established as the M346.
I'll bet we get the Hawk T3...

[Bob Viking]

LAL

There are at least one or two additional plausible options. At the conclusion of the MFTS contract (2035) the RAF could buy a single platform that takes student pilots from EFT direct to OCU. That could be a turboprop or a yet to be conceived mystery aircraft.

Whilst I am on record as stating I do not believe that the Aeralis aircraft will ever get off the ground and I also am not a huge fan of direct from turboprop to OCU that doesn’t mean these options aren’t ones that HMGOV won’t pursue. Especially if it benefits UK industry.

Another option is that, despite what CAS said recently, the Hawk T2 could soldier on for much longer than planned.

Like everyone else though, I’m just guessing.

BV

[mechpowi]

L-39CW (ex. NG) Skyfox entered serial production last year. Kinetic performance is little less than current Hawk, but otherwise seem to be a reasonable trainer with reasonable costs. Still not my prime cadidate for the RAF.

[WideSpectrum]

Although with the current focus on cost cutting we could send our ever-dwindling cohort of FJ students to the International Flight Training School (IFTS) in Decimomannu.

[Bob Viking]

WS

Originally Posted by WideSpectrum

Although with the current focus on cost cutting we could send our ever-dwindling cohort of FJ students to the International Flight Training School (IFTS) in Decimomannu.

Not enough slots available to fully meet our requirement. But if I were a student I’d love a few months in Sardinia.

BV

[gravedigger666]

The RAF wont buy anything, they will outsource it to another company or as stated IFTS.

[DuckDodgers]

BAE linked to TAI and Hurjet, you can see the Typhoon sale offset card being reeled out. Bungling Baron strikes again 🙄🙄🫣🫣

Aeralis isn’t an option as it doesn’t exist. PC-21 isn’t an option unless you view yourself as a second rate air force. Comrade Starmer could of course go all Chinese 😂

Which brings us back to a 3-horse race: T-7A, T-50 (172 ordered), or M346 (126 ordered).

[typerated]

Could you go PC-21 and then have a small fleet of 2 seat Gripens to act as a TWU?

[Stitchbitch]

Originally Posted by DuckDodgers

Aeralis isn’t an option as it doesn’t exist. PC-21 isn’t an option unless you view yourself as a second rate air force. ).

Why the rather dim view of PC-21?

[DuckDodgers]

Originally Posted by Stitchbitch

Why the rather dim view of PC-21?

Great for everything up to Phase 3 - large delta in performance, handling, and relevance. Accrue fatigue at a very high rate if used for Phase 4, questionable build quality raised by recent customers, especially compared to PC-9….

[LateArmLive]

Originally Posted by Stitchbitch

Why the rather dim view of PC-21?

To add to what others have said, it also doesn't really work for BFM/ACM as the turn radius is so damn small!

[Bob Viking]

LAL

Originally Posted by LateArmLive

To add to what others have said, it also doesn't really work for BFM/ACM as the turn radius is so damn small!

In my experience that’s not the biggest problem. It’s turning is actually great and ‘like versus like’ it works just fine. It’s the lack of vertical options after the merge that ruins the fun. It makes full up 2v1 a little unrepresentative to say the least.

BV

[Wetstart Dryrun]

But if I were a student I’d love a few months in Sardinia.

....have you tried the wine they make you drink?

[Bob Viking]

WD

As a young fella I could put up with a lot of crap wine if it meant a few months in Sardinia.

BV

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by Wetstart Dryrun

But if I were a student I’d love a few months in Sardinia.

....have you tried the wine they make you drink?

Called 'mirto' (actually a liqueur) and it's delicious.

[BEagle]

Deci' red? Truly horrible!

Presumably the students attending IFTS will have somewhere better to live than those wretched blocks which included the 'Pig 'n Tape'?

[Mogwi]

Rosso inferioso, I believe it was called. Roughly translated as “The Red Infuriator”. Arrived every morning in a tanker and was decanted into a plastic jerry can behind the bar. Second carafe always tasted a lot better than the first.

Mog

[shore leave]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Aeralis- for me it looks an exciting concept especially for foreign sales with the ground attack modular option.. First test flight due next year, the crabs have been involved with R&D since '21.