BAE Systems Hawk Replacement?
 

Anyone know what the next-gen jet Trainer will be for the RAF and RN in the UK? The basic Hawk concept is now 50 years old so wondered if the MoD is looking at a replacement? Or is it all about simulators nowadays - even for basic FJ training?

Is the Boeing-Saab T-7 under any consideration?

oh Boy...

Here we go... Warm up the popcorn!

What it "should" be, and what it "will" be are almost certainly two different things. A bit like when the Hawk T2/Mk128 was procured...and look how that turned out.

Realistically, there are 3 options. T7 (which is unproven and the USAF aren't entirely happy with it yet). M346 which has been in service and proven by NATO allies. Or T50, which is the most capable but not yet as well established as the M346.
I'll bet we get the Hawk T3...

LAL
 

There are at least one or two additional plausible options. At the conclusion of the MFTS contract (2035) the RAF could buy a single platform that takes student pilots from EFT direct to OCU. That could be a turboprop or a yet to be conceived mystery aircraft.

Whilst I am on record as stating I do not believe that the Aeralis aircraft will ever get off the ground and I also am not a huge fan of direct from turboprop to OCU that doesn’t mean these options aren’t ones that HMGOV won’t pursue. Especially if it benefits UK industry.

Another option is that, despite what CAS said recently, the Hawk T2 could soldier on for much longer than planned.

Like everyone else though, I’m just guessing.

BV

L-39CW (ex. NG) Skyfox entered serial production last year. Kinetic performance is little less than current Hawk, but otherwise seem to be a reasonable trainer with reasonable costs. Still not my prime cadidate for the RAF.

Although with the current focus on cost cutting we could send our ever-dwindling cohort of FJ students to the International Flight Training School (IFTS) in Decimomannu.

WS
 

Not enough slots available to fully meet our requirement. But if I were a student I’d love a few months in Sardinia.

BV

The RAF wont buy anything, they will outsource it to another company or as stated IFTS.

BAE linked to TAI and Hurjet, you can see the Typhoon sale offset card being reeled out. Bungling Baron strikes again 🙄🙄🫣🫣

Aeralis isn’t an option as it doesn’t exist. PC-21 isn’t an option unless you view yourself as a second rate air force. Comrade Starmer could of course go all Chinese 😂

Which brings us back to a 3-horse race: T-7A, T-50 (172 ordered), or M346 (126 ordered).

Could you go PC-21 and then have a small fleet of 2 seat Gripens to act as a TWU?

Why the rather dim view of PC-21?

Great for everything up to Phase 3 - large delta in performance, handling, and relevance. Accrue fatigue at a very high rate if used for Phase 4, questionable build quality raised by recent customers, especially compared to PC-9….

To add to what others have said, it also doesn't really work for BFM/ACM as the turn radius is so damn small!

LAL
 

In my experience that’s not the biggest problem. It’s turning is actually great and ‘like versus like’ it works just fine. It’s the lack of vertical options after the merge that ruins the fun. It makes full up 2v1 a little unrepresentative to say the least.

BV

But if I were a student I’d love a few months in Sardinia.

....have you tried the wine they make you drink?

WD
 

As a young fella I could put up with a lot of crap wine if it meant a few months in Sardinia.

BV

Called 'mirto' (actually a liqueur) and it's delicious.

Deci' red? Truly horrible!

Presumably the students attending IFTS will have somewhere better to live than those wretched blocks which included the 'Pig 'n Tape'?

Rosso inferioso, I believe it was called. Roughly translated as “The Red Infuriator”. Arrived every morning in a tanker and was decanted into a plastic jerry can behind the bar. Second carafe always tasted a lot better than the first.

Mog

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Aeralis- for me it looks an exciting concept especially for foreign sales with the ground attack modular option.. First test flight due next year, the crabs have been involved with R&D since '21.

Shore Leave
 

Maybe you just need to read the thread. I mentioned it at #4.

BV

Funny how the 'first test flight' is always due 'NEXT' year.

Indeed! Now they’ve opened a comedy Paris office too 🫣

I don't think anyone seriously expects it to be 'next year' until the year that photo's start to appear of an actual real prototype airframe is seen to be in assembly.....
Now which year that will be (if ever) and then maybe that year +1 will be the real 'next year' :E

Hmmm Deci Red….. :yuk: if you couldn’t drink it, you could strip paint with it.


Probably the BAe Hawk 2050MR model, (Must Refurbish)

Which sage once said 'Don't buy the Mark 1 version of anything'??

Ah, Roso Inferioso! The name says it all - but it was really quite good after the first bottle.😐 Arrived by tanker every morning.

Mog

Aeralis; having a design that never has a design freeze must be a draw card when there is no faith in the system knowing if they want silk purses or sows ears. Does seem to assure having twice the development costs for a design that was not optimal to any specific design point in the first place. If it at least standardised landing gear, actuators etc, then maybe it wouldn't seem to wishy-washy. Fabricating the wrapper for the systems is not the hard part, it is everything else, and designing multiple variants of that is not cheap.

The Hawk itself is not a bad aircraft, didn't need the triple jointed midget like most British designs used to require for maintenance, but RR needs to spend some more time on getting their blenders to be a bit more reliable.

Calm down, its another 6 weeks or so until April Fools day.

Aeralis... please no. Untested, unproven concept design that won't work in practice. Buy something that's designed to do one thing well and can be used as an advanced trainer, not some corporate-boardroom "good idea".

The more you scratch at the surface the more you wonder if it’s one giant Ponzi scheme…..Siemens have fallen for it as have Standard Aero 🙄

The Mandarin Madman will threaten punishment if the T7 is not selected. The UK will cave. Simples.

I highly doubt that, but it does at least meet likely requirements. Aeralis doesn’t unless your reference point is ASR 397 🙄🙄

Maybe new-build Hawk T1s with updated avionics might be a good idea. You know, that radical concept of "buy something that actually works and has a proven track record"
Kind of like: The best replacement for a Hercules is a new Hercules

Moggiee
 

I have said this many times, but I’ll say it again here:

THE HAWK PRODUCTION LINE IS SHUT.

FOREVER.

BV

Thank goodness. Great little jet back in the 80s, passable in the 90s, a polished **** in the 2000s

Not much wrong with the Hawk T1, you can't quite say the same for the T2, so I dispute that hoary old myth!

A bit harsh on the old RAAF there! :E

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....755f22787.jpeg

BUSTER, you are being a bit harsh on the RAAF !!

The PC-21 is our basic and advanced trainer for pilot training.
But the image you have attached is in its other role, as a FAC.
Then for the LIF role, we use the Hawk 127 - but itself getting long in the tooth at 25 years.

Artistic licence engaged to illustrate its usage beyond training and entertaining. :ok: