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-   -   Ukraine War Thread Part 2 (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652441-ukraine-war-thread-part-2-a.html)

Semreh 31st October 2024 09:03


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 11760406)
Why on earth does Poland need to ask Biden for authority to help a neighbour.

Because when you buy weapons from the USA, part of the deal is that they retain rights over how you use those weapons. If you don't like that, don't buy the weapons systems.

ITAR restrictions also apply to components, so if you buy a weapons system from, say, France, that includes components sourced from the USA on their extensive list of controlled technologies (USML), the USA retains control over use of those components. Arms manufacturers have to go to considerable trouble to produce weapons systems that do not include American components so they can avoid dealing with this bureaucracy.

If you don't follow the rules set by the USA, it might not be possible to get maintenance supplies, or buy weapons in future. So you follow the rules.

Poland is free to help its neighbours with non-USA controlled material.

This is the reality of buying weapons systems with American components. It is up to Poland to decide whether the compromises necessary to use American-sourced weapons are worth making.

ORAC 31st October 2024 11:11

https://www.ft.com/content/b1104594-...5-e7a80ab68fad

Chinese sanctions hit US drone maker supplying Ukraine

Move by Beijing leaves California company rushing to find new battery providers

Skydio, the US’s largest drone maker and a supplier to Ukraine’s military, faces a supply chain crisis after Beijing imposed sanctions on the company, including banning Chinese groups from providing it with critical components.

Skydio is rushing to find alternative suppliers after Beijing’s move, which also blocks battery supplies from its sole provider, said people familiar with the situation.

The drone-maker has sought help from the Biden administration. Chief executive Adam Bry last week met US deputy secretary of state Kurt Campbell and held discussions with senior officials at the White House.

American officials are concerned about China disrupting US supply chains and provision to Ukraine of drones used in intelligence gathering.

“This is a clarifying moment for the drone industry,” Bry wrote in a note to customers obtained by the Financial Times. “If there was ever any doubt, this action makes clear that the Chinese government will use supply chains as a weapon to advance their interests over ours.

“This is an attempt to eliminate the leading American drone company and deepen the world’s dependence on Chinese drone suppliers,” he added.….

Hot 'n' High 31st October 2024 11:22


Originally Posted by admikar (Post 11760474)
...... US will shift its focus to ME, regardless of who wins elections next week. .......

Exactly what Putin wanted. I'm sure Moscow was behind the scenes in all this recent Middle East saga.......

Lonewolf_50 31st October 2024 12:48


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11760564)
https://www.ft.com/content/b1104594-...5-e7a80ab68fad
Chinese sanctions hit US drone maker supplying Ukraine

A different version of economic sanctions with the same intent. As I had noted a few weeks back, WW III is underway, but nobody seems to have noticed. Yes, it looks different from WW II and it isn't (thankfully) a nuclear holocaust.

judyjudy 31st October 2024 13:14


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11760654)
it isn't (thankfully) a nuclear holocaust.

.. yet

henra 31st October 2024 15:16


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11760564)
https://www.ft.com/content/b1104594-...5-e7a80ab68fad
American officials are concerned about China disrupting US supply chains and provision to Ukraine of drones used in intelligence gathering.

This is a good wake- up call. The West needs to become more independent of China and its raw materials and OEM products. Yes it was a nice business model to buy stuff cheaply in China and sell it at ten times the cost in the US or in Europe. A lot of people got rich that way. But sooner rather than later we must understand that especially for critical tech components this is a fatal mistake to rely on that. Will it cost money? You bet. Will we be able to continue our business model of the last 30 years? Rather not. Are there alternatives? No good ones.
That said: Unless these drone batteries are super- specifically designed it should not be too much of a problem to find another source or go via intermidiaries. I still hope this has been noticed. And surprised this hasn't happened earlier.

tdracer 31st October 2024 17:55


Originally Posted by henra (Post 11760733)
That said: Unless these drone batteries are super- specifically designed it should not be too much of a problem to find another source or go via intermidiaries. I still hope this has been noticed. And surprised this hasn't happened earlier.

It's that super-specific part that tends to be the problem.
I had a co-worker that liked to tell the story of trying to source batteries for some specific military project he was working on. They figured, even though it was a specific design for the battery, they needed 500,000, so it would be easy to source.
None of the battery manufactures were interested - when they said "but we need 500 thousand of those!", the battery types would come back with 'not worth our trouble - come back when you need 500 million...*

NutLoose 31st October 2024 18:06


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11760564)
https://www.ft.com/content/b1104594-...5-e7a80ab68fad

Chinese sanctions hit US drone maker supplying Ukraine

Move by Beijing leaves California company rushing to find new battery providers

Skydio, the US’s largest drone maker and a supplier to Ukraine’s military, faces a supply chain crisis after Beijing imposed sanctions on the company, including banning Chinese groups from providing it with critical components.

Skydio is rushing to find alternative suppliers after Beijing’s move, which also blocks battery supplies from its sole provider, said people familiar with the situation.

The drone-maker has sought help from the Biden administration. Chief executive Adam Bry last week met US deputy secretary of state Kurt Campbell and held discussions with senior officials at the White House.

American officials are concerned about China disrupting US supply chains and provision to Ukraine of drones used in intelligence gathering.

“This is a clarifying moment for the drone industry,” Bry wrote in a note to customers obtained by the Financial Times. “If there was ever any doubt, this action makes clear that the Chinese government will use supply chains as a weapon to advance their interests over ours.

“This is an attempt to eliminate the leading American drone company and deepen the world’s dependence on Chinese drone suppliers,” he added.….

There is probably a myriad of Chinese made items the USA could ban the import of in a tit for tat action.

NutLoose 31st October 2024 18:49

Wow, a Korean soldier talks about finding the truth the hard way, as Russia herded them to their slaughter and how Putin has betrayed Kim .
He talks a lot of sense.


NutLoose 31st October 2024 18:52

That’ll teach Russia to use prisoners as fodder.

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NutLoose 31st October 2024 18:57

Moving some of Ukraines monuments ahead of the onslaught.

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NutLoose 31st October 2024 19:09

Lol te Korean Russian phrase book. Full of useful words and sayings that will be imperative on the front line.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8ebd9b3be.jpeg

Petit-Lion 31st October 2024 19:20


Originally Posted by tdracer (Post 11760851)
It's that super-specific part that tends to be the problem.
I had a co-worker that liked to tell the story of trying to source batteries for some specific military project he was working on. They figured, even though it was a specific design for the battery, they needed 500,000, so it would be easy to source.
None of the battery manufactures were interested - when they said "but we need 500 thousand of those!", the battery types would come back with 'not worth our trouble - come back when you need 500 million...*

Part of Tesla success is that unlike other EV makers, Tesla batteries are made of standard cells, 18650, 20700, so they can switch providers at will. Korea, Japan make good cells too.
Similarly, de-ITARize non-US weapons might very soon be the next strategic issue for European defense industry.

EDLB 31st October 2024 19:35

"Similarly, de-ITARize non-US weapons might very soon be the next strategic issue for European defense industry."
For any not completely trivial electronic that will be impossible. At least the design will come for most advance parts from US companies.

NutLoose 31st October 2024 22:03

More Russian futility.

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GlobalNav 31st October 2024 22:16


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 11760406)
Why on earth does Poland need to ask Biden for authority to help a neighbour.

To collaborate with a key ally, and supplier of advanced weapons.

ORAC 31st October 2024 23:02

⚡️🇺🇦Ukraine will officially appeal to 🇰🇷South Korea with a request for military assistance. It is about artillery, air defense systems and more, - Volodymyr Zelenskyi.

The Ukrainian government has named three North Korean generals accompanying at least 500 North Korean officers sent to Russia - Reuters

One of them, Colonel General Kim Yong Bok, is a senior general with command of special forces troops, including the XI Corps, also known as the Storm Corps, which the South Korean intelligence service said has been dispatched to Russia.

Also, in remarks to the UN Security Council, Ukraine's delegation stated that plans call for the North Korean troops to be formed into at least five formations of 2,000-3,000 soldiers each, and integrated into Russian units to conceal their presence.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ia-2024-10-31/

NutLoose 1st November 2024 00:44


Originally Posted by EDLB (Post 11760903)
"Similarly, de-ITARize non-US weapons might very soon be the next strategic issue for European defense industry."
For any not completely trivial electronic that will be impossible. At least the design will come for most advance parts from US companies.

Storm Shadow and SCALP were designed from the start to have no US components in them and haven’t.

petit plateau 1st November 2024 13:39


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11761027)
Storm Shadow and SCALP were designed from the start to have no US components in them and haven’t.

That's not entirely correct. When USA prevented SCALP sake to Egypt, thereby also preventing Rafale sale, the French realised that SCALP was not entirely Itar free. So they redesigned to create an Itar free version. It seems that is what enabled the subsequent French sales to Egypt. I posted this info and the relevant links a few months back.

What is interesting is that the supposedly Itar free SCALP and storm shadow nonetheless seen to have a de facto US block in usage beyond Ukraine borders. This suggests that something in the mission planning or mission operation tool chain is under US control for both the UK and the French supply. Or that there are other less technical and more political issues in play. But no indication as to what.

ORAC 1st November 2024 14:23


This suggests that something in the mission planning or mission operation tool chain is under US control for both the UK and the French supply.
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Digital mapping, whether DTED level 2 or other.


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