Question about Moderators
 

THis is not a flame or trying to cause trouble BUT why do so many threads get deleted?

recently there were 2 threads running about blunties....both deleted, Now those threads were not causing abuse or harm to anyone, they were discussions.

I know of many other threads that have "vanished".

Couple of Questions.

1. Are any of the mods either military or ex military (recent)
2. Why is there no notification if threads just "vanish" especially if they run to multiple pages.
3. Can we not have what is commonly known as a flame room where any contensious threads can be moved to and anything(within reason) said?

I dont expect this post to last long and I dont expect notification from the mod concerned when it "vanishes"

Thank you and good Morning

It may well not have anything to do with 'moderators.'
IF the first post of a thread is removed by the original poster, the whole thread disappears....without any notice whatsoever...IE: it's done automatically.

In a nutshell....censorship. And not necessarily from the moderators.

Makes me wonder what the point of this forum is. Everyone needs to vent frustration every now and then. The threads you talked about were actually quite entertaining, and if read in the proper frame of mind, quite thought provoking.

'O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us.' - Burns

I don't know any of the Mods personally, but as far as I am concerned they generally do a good job. Voluntarily.

As the name suggests, they generally keep a lid on the offensive and especially where security may be involved. The security aspect is often a judgement call or acting on the advice of a serving or ex-serving Ppruner.

On one or two occasions, I have had cause to advise the Mods that certain discussions were getting too close to sensitive subjects and they have acted accordingly.

Yes, it is censorship of a kind, but you know, we all self censor all the time. I can't get hot under the collar when the Mods bin a post or an entire thread if it is called for.

And as 411A says, the originator can bin the whole thread...

Since you ask!

Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World are welcome.

Of late the forum has been mis-used, abused and generally gone down the tubes.

We have had trolls - who get banned permanently. Those posters who think that anything goes - their threads get deleted. Those who think their posts are the best thing since sliced bread, they get deleted. Then we get those who think that this forum somehow belongs to them and throw a wobbly, or those who deride the mods if their posts get moved to a different forum. So, it has to be said, WE decide what goes or where it goes to.

I have personally removed 19 posters (all of them trolls) permanently from this forum who had no idea what the word debate meant or who were totally childish and clearly thought that swearing and abusiveness to others was normal. Their understanding of normal always demonstrated that they were not.

We have recently had an Admin chat about the above and Danny has gone as far as to say that we should adopt a "slash and burn" policy in Mil. You may think this an exaggeration but I assure you it isn't.

Moderating this forum has become more necessary now than at any time in the past 11 years I have been here. It used to be the only forum that had a 'self moderating' action and was virtually left alone. Not anymore it seems. But, we would be pleased to see that return.

Many of the good guys have left us. Probably because they feel as we do that the 'quality' of postings has significantly dropped. Certainly the fun and banter has changed, in some instances, from the laughter getter to an excuse for perverted abuse.

We recognise that some individuals from other sites try to hi-jack the forum with their own puerile tosh. We are on to it.

The Mil forum must return to it's original purpose of giving voice to the three services in aviation.

Sorry as we are to say it, we will be adopting a more robust editing policy. We hold the reins and we intend to stop what amounts to a slow runaway forum by applying the brakes.

For those who do not like it - you will have to migrate. For those who cannot abide by the basic rules of PPRuNe will also have to decide what they want to do. We would prefer that they stay if they feel they can integrate and we would like to see the return of the 'friends of MIL' - the sooner the better.

The forum is yours if you play by the rules. They are not severe but they are rules. BTW, swearing in either the straight form or *** form is not acceptable, it is becoming all too common. Non-swearing is a standard PPRuNe rule.

As an ex WO I would dearly like and prefer a quiet word behind the hangar but this will have to do!

Finally, please accept that this is a take it or leave it. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

PPP

PPrune Pop

I hear you on this matter but may I suggest a revision to your policy? How about a "3 strikes or you're out" policy? From what I read in your reply you will suspend anyone without warning? How are alleged offenders supposed to modify their behaviour if you just delete the posts and suspend their accounts - I would have thought a PM warning should be the first step?

You could always adopt a "points system" like DVLA?

Just a thought.

B Word

It is not MY policy. It is PPRuNe's policy. And I am not about to respond to any other posts on this subject - except one.

We have never given reasons for editorial actions or deletions. As for bans, that person will see any comment there is to make when he/she next logs in.

DVLA have thousands of 'moderators.' We are not about to increase our work. := Nice try!

PPRuNe Pop,

Many thanks for your initial reply. I totally agree with you.

I know over the years some of my posts have not exactly been whiter than white and I apologise for that. I do have a tendency to bite when I read some of the stuff put here these days.

However, please could I ask for some of the language here to be moderated? Minor language is fine in the right context but when people start using vulgar language it is quite offensive (and hiding it by using £$@ etc does not work).

My wife also enjoys reading some of the articles here, but when she reads something that includes a disguised version of the “c” word (which has been used on several occasions) she is quite sickened.
Thank you.

So thats cleared that up then, ......and so on with the usual banter - for those who remember what that is (was)...


Fair point by the Mods, some of he drivell is nothing short of appalling of late..

Hear Hear Totally agree with the Mods.


Now about that Tesco (and any other reasonably priced supermarket) voucher I was promised :ok:

Naive moment.....what's a troll? (in this context obviously!)

@ Griz
Wiki def = "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion"
Plenty of them about ! :*

Sounds pretty much like everyone at happy hour!!!!

PPrune Pop

Well said. I know a few who are fed up with the abuse and crudeness which has become prevalent on this forum over the last few years. Keep up the good work.

RubiC

over moderation can also remove a lot of the humour and characters on the board.

After all do you walk out of the crew room if the banter gets to much? I doubt it.

We are all adults here and either serving or ex serving ~(30 years here) I fail to get upset by a bit of banter or naughty language on the internet,

If I dont like it I just move on to the next subject.

Are you deliberately missing the point to justify your own ends? Get your head out of the sand.

Surely your life is not ALL banter is it? As the man says it is sometimes gets out of hand. One guy has already said that his wife finds some of it offensive. Fair enough?

As for 'naughty' language it's banned on PPRuNe. Not a bad thing when you see some of it either. I can eff and blind but not on here I don't!

Just wondered what happened to the recent Ryanair/RAF ID thread? Did this get moved, or deleted for some reason? Mind you, my eyesight is going - maybe it's still there!

PPRuNe Pop

Now I have no complaints personally about the way Pprune is being moderated in fact looking though other similar forums Pprune is an example how debate and exchanges of views can serve the greater good of the service men and women of this country without resorting to jumbled swear words.
There is of cause a however coming so here it is .
However reading through the TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE page I noticed this:

Postings do not reflect our views; and we do not have any obligation to monitor, edit, or review any Postings on the Site. We assume NO responsibility or liability arising from the content of any such Postings nor for any error, defamation, libel, slander, omission, falsehood, obscenity, pornography, profanity, danger, or inaccuracy contained in any information within such Postings on the Site.

It does appear that although you have no obligation to monitor edit or review you do so regularly and although you assume no responsibility for profanitiy's and obsenity you do regularly remove such postings.

Now under the Defamation Act 1996 as both the publisher and the author of defamatory material can be sued for making defamatory statements. This means that both us as posters and author of the content, and Pprune as the publisher, can be sued for defamation.

This would seem to imply that you as moderators do in fact have to assume responsibility or liability arising from the content of any such Postings and for any error, defamation, libel, slander.

In conclusion the Moderators are doing a good job of watching our backs and preventing posters from crossing the line ( I include myself in this) it maybe argued that in order to keep Pprune a bastinion of free discussion and exchanging of views that they should be tougher in their approach.
I would end by saying I am grateful to the moderators who have in the past curbed the hurtful jibes made by posters hiding behind their anonymity against families who have lost husbands,brothers and sons.

TD, you are right on the one hand and right on the other too - what happy position to be in!

Yes, of course we do. We have to. We have to curb all of those things otherwise the site would drop into a morass of rubbish, and that's putting it mildly. Having said that, we rarely if ever edit a post, that is a no no - except to cut out profanities, but lately we are deleting such posts so that people get the message.

It was expected that some would not like the stance we are taking but the level of PM's I am receiving and the comments being made, show that overall people are pleased that we are after "the way we were" and very much in favour of it.

Thanks.

PPP

Sin Bin
 

Deleting posts, threads and banning posters leads to confusion, and leads to 'Whatever happened to the xxx thread?'

It happened to me when XV179 Crew Tactics discussion got a bit too deep.

Just a suggestion.

Pop, why don't you (so that the offence remains visible) and he can't delete it.

Then make your statement about unacceptability, but offer the defendant the chance to apologise and/or give him a week in the Sin Bin (which you apparently do sometimes)

That's what grown ups would do. Apologise for the indiscretion and move on.

This "Sin Bin" is what happened to me. I made an ill-judged comment on Beret wearing - pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things looking at some of the comments/issues on here. I then posted in what I thought was "banter" towards the Mods - no swearing and nothing politically incorrect. The result - Sin Bin (or the "cooler"!) for 7 days. I wrote to the Webmaster who decided that they would stand by their Mods - fair enough really, I suppose.

However, this all left me with a very bad feeling of being too harshly treated without adequate warning - the warning came with the ban!! Hence, I posted in my "hissy fit" state about a fortnight ago that I was finished with Prune - whilst I still feel agrieved, I don't feel alone as this would also appear to be happening to others.

If I'm going to the "Cooler" for another week - at least let me take my baseball and glove this time :ok:

LJ

I assume that when you say "twice deleted the comments of Flt Lt Anderton on the General McCrystal debate", you are not trying to imply that there is a thread somewhere on General McCrystal (sic)and that Flt Lt Anderton has commented on it and the mods have deleted those comments. I also assume that you really meant that there were 2 threads about Flt Lt Anderton's statement/question to General McChrystal that the mods have deleted.

If you actually read the second thread, started by ORAC (now the only one remaining and closed not deleted), it was stated there by me that the originator of the first thread deleted this thread himself! It was called 'Courage!' and was started by LFFT. Ask him!
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/390921-flight-lieutenant-victoria-anderton.html

ORAC's thread was closed because the topic had been discussed to death in the original thread!

This hardly warrants the wild accusation that "the moderators destroy even the slightest controversial subject". If you have something blindingly exciting and new to state about this event, then please feel free to start another thread, which will stand or fall on its own merit. If, however, the thread merely ends up repeating all the stuff that was on the original thread, it might not prove to have been worth the effort.

I find it strange that a thread is deleted simply because it had been 'discussed to death'.. after all, is that not the intention of niche messageboards, and anyway, what harm does it do by remaining on strength? If no one wants to discuss it anymore, having had it been discussed to death, surely it just fades away anyway, as do the hundreds of others in the same situation?

Its not the role of moderators to completely stop a thread because some content may be repetitive (after all, what about the Chinook/Formula 1/Crickets threads elsewhere)? I take the point that a thread starter may have stopped one of the threads, but whatever you think about her actions, this is a subject relating to expression that does have ramifications and might affect how others are feeling/thinking of acting.

Respectfully,

Al.

The starter of the original thread deleted it because it was "getting too detailed" and bitty. The situation at the time the second thread was closed was that it happened at almost exactly the same time as the first thread was deleted by the thread starter, and my thinking at the time was that there was no point in just starting the same old stuff all over again straight away.

If you would like the opportunity to discuss this matter further though, I have resurrected ORAC's thread and bumped it for you.

Happy now?

However, if it gets into the absolute nonsense that was in the original thread, I reserve the right to dump it! ;)

Dear Wholy,

You are impossibly gentlemanly and gracious, and I therefore demand that you step down forthwith.

Or just delete someone's post because you didn't like it?

"It's my football and I'm not going in goal"

And there was nothing controversial in my post at 0839 this morning. You lot (moderators) are trashing the art of open debate.

:ugh:

I would love to add to anita gofradump's You lot (moderators) are trashing the art of open debate. But I fear that whatever I write will be moderated (that's a good word) out since that is the way that things are going nowdays----with even moderators moderating moderators!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thanks Shack - we discussed this so I hope you don't mind me changing it?

Does posting in red make you more important?

No Ewan it doesn't. It shows that it is a post by me in moderator mode rather than me in "me" mode. This post is one in "me" mode.

Is it me or is this thread getting more and more like a Monty Python sketch? I refer, of course, to the "Argument" sketch.

And the reason that this is in green is because it's a nice day and I felt like it :E

Green? This must be the 'combat' thread.....

Keep up the good work Wholy, you do a fine job.

Perhaps the Moderators can redact rather than remove things, therefore when I say all moderators are (1) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx , it won't appear but it will give people the chance to see I do have an opinion on the (2) xxxxxxxxxxx moderators. This could be used to moderate swear words or complete sentences, and is also in a form we are used to seeing.
Just a thought, if you don't agree you can (3) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Unredacted=(1) a great bunch of guys doing a hard job.
Unredacted=(2) skillful moderators.
Unredacted=(3) say what you think freely.
:ok:

Wholigan

Thanks for listening to us whine and being big enough to change course. Maybe you could have a "mods get-together" to discuss the current scheme of moderation as over the past couple of months this has attracted a recurring thread?

I too am a fan of open debate within the PC guidelines that we all know [and love!] these days. I do believe that the current "moderation scheme" is stiffling debate at times.

All the best

B Word

Wholigan,

Why the red text? :yuk:

Sgt. Slabber wrote


Try reading posts 8 & 9

Sgt Slabber, there is an answer in the thread.

Siseman, don't write in green. Wholi will think his missus has found the keys to this Forum :}

Dubs, :ok::ok:

Out of interest, when I first joined PPRuNe, the Mil Thread was self-moderating. Don't object to Mods, in fact I think they're quite nice chaps/chapesses, who spread wisdom, understanding, largesse and Nigerian Lager around in equal doses. Just my thoughts, feel free to report me or disagree!:E

Well, whatever you say I still prefer gas barbecues, and I find them more manly.:p

TD. We have a code we work to. Or try to. The new owners pretty much leave us to it based on that. However, there does come a time, all too often sometimes, when an unpopular action has to be made. It usually goes down like a ton of bricks because the poster feels that it was his right to either abuse us mods, abuse others, use snide, swear openly or be just downright rude and obnoxious - none of which, of course, will be allowed.

We don't look for anything other than to ensure that the site remains the fine site it is and has been made to be over the past 13 years or so, and all achieved by goodwill and good attitudes - most of the time.

It all boils down to realising that this not a site for freedom of speech in the way that some would like. In fact Danny has always made it clear that there is no freedom of speech at all on PPRuNe, more a question of saying as much as you like, how you like until it offends or abuses. Then it might well get a shove elsewhere or in the bin!

It's not too much to bear for the benefit of all is it?