Not sure who's doing the mooting, but I'd treat that with a great deal of circumspection.

It is generally hard to get even two organisations with considerably different national perspectives to agree on a design, as evidenced by any number of Anglo-French and Franco German equipment projects which speared in because, notwithstanding all the joint statements and political fudge, fundamental national requirements were incompatible. Trying a threesome on a new design SSN sounds pretty high risk to me, especially where one partner has limited experience of SSK design and none of SSN design. It will get even more difficult, and very expensive if there are a lot of RAN specific differences needed.

Even so, SSN(R) still looks to be the least bad bet to me. It is the only approach that will deal with the shortage of current capacity in in US and UK, it has a reactor design that, once complete, can be manufactured and is in a timeframe practical for all partners. It leaves the RAN with a life problem for the Collins boats, perhaps. That is somewhat easier to deal with.

N

RR Derby PWR3 production is, on paper, ahead of Dreadnaught and SSNR construction and potentially able to meet any RAN requirement.

The potential problem lies elsewhere. If the government decides to give RR Derby a contract for LEU SMRs to meet U.K. domestic needs, and then multiple other foreign orders, where do you honk the RR engineering focus will be?

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/new...uclear-5427413

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bffec7a543.jpg
Here we go again…

https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...-of-aukus.html

Are you stirring the pot again, Buster.

The ADF hasn’t had a good experience with French equipment, eg MH90, Tiger & they even prevented the RAAF from using the Mirage in Vietnam.

Political posturing aside, there’s no chance that RAN will acquire French submarines.

Macron did offer 4 diesel subs, we assume scorpenes but nothing official, just like the spanish offered another 3 hobart class AWD. Marles (defence minister) has also had a meeting with Macron in the last 24 hours and hes said they will be more communicative on the MRH-90's if the scrapping is confirmed

Ha! No, I just hadn’t seen this mentioned before in the thread. 😂

We’ve swung all our eggs into the US basket, rightly or wrongly, but personally, I’d be exploring the possibility of getting some US or UK patrols to cover the Collins gap. (Don’t flame me, just a random thought as opposed to the 4 FRAUS subs option)

The informed , and for once not inflammable, discussion over teh last week has pointed out the fact that any large scale construction in Adleide is likely to be a long way away.

That doesn't stop the RAN training tho' - in 4 or 5 years they could have a decent cadre of trained crews that could man a rental boat (I suggest the "Hertz" class) or co-crew a US or RN boat operating near Australia.

Yes, and I agree it would have to be either/or, not both. Setting aside the question of whether the RAN could find sufficient submariners for a sensible cadre in both a USN boat and a RN boat, the difference in approach of the USN and the RN to producing SQEP as MEO, XO and CO was mentioned somewhere above. I think they are possibly mutually exclusive.

Are there any RN submarine exchange posts with a US SSN billet?

N

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-us-navy-roles

Submariner Lieutenant Matt Main and Chief Petty Officer Stacy Gager have been working with US colleagues as part of the US-UK personnel exchange programme and long-lead specialist skills programme.

Lieutenant Main has already earned his Royal Navy ‘dolphins’ – the unique badge which signifies a qualified submariner – but on 10 June he was presented with the US equivalent after a gruelling 27-month training and qualification process.

Fully integrated into the crew of the USS New Mexico, Lieutenant Main is currently the damage control assistant and will become the assistant engineer in due course before returning to the Royal Navy….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_Mexico_(SSN-779)

USS New Mexico (SSN-779), a nuclear powered Virginia class attack submarine…. is the second of the Virginia Block II submarines to enter service….

ORAC.
Thanks for that. The USN training and qualification period needed by a RN qualified submariner kind of makes my point.

N

RN navigating / warfare officers do swap with their opposite numbers much more easily: and vice versa. It's the technical specialists than need to be brought up to speed with the other teams kit and operating systems.

I totally agree. It would make sense (while the new SSN’s are being built) to have a submarine, from the country that is selected, based at Fleet Base West for operations with some RAN personnel integrated in the crew.

100% There should be some boats from either guam or hawaii given extended deployments to fleet base west where australia submariners can do training and operational cruises. Might the same for RN, I believe one of astute class is supposed to be forward deployed in oman maybe forward deploy it to australia instead

Okay, someone let Marles know that the Pprune Ozmates have got this. He can stand down now! :ok:

"I believe one of astute class is supposed to be forward deployed in oman maybe forward deploy it to australia instead"

this where it starts to get tough - UK has very few real pressing interests in the Australia area compared to the Gulf

Interesting article today:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...37aaef961fb900

The US badly needs to expand the infrastructure supporting their Navy - especially the submarine force. As the article states, they expect Australia to financially contribute to setting up this infrastructure to increase the rate of submarine construction. This would have more benefit for the USN than the RAN.

My view is that the money needs to be used setting up the infrastructure in Australia to have control of the construction as well as ongoing maintenance of the submarine fleet, it will have the most benefit throughout the life of the vessels as well as allowing the money to circulate within our economy. This may mean a delay in introducing SSN’s into the RAN but the ongoing benefits are worth it. The post LOTE Collins boats would have to remain in service for their full hull life.

"The US badly needs to expand the infrastructure supporting their Navy "

Trouble is that is taking forever and costs a fortune. Once you close a yard or a factory you lose people and the skills - and most of them never come back - as the Airline industry is discoveringQuick Reply

It seems easier to turn an engineer into a warfare officer, than a warfare officer into an engineer. To some of us this is not a surprise :) .If the RAN were to go down the path of selecting both a USN design, and the USN method of crewing them, then the RAN's X branch woud be writing itself out of the picture.That alone makes the USN path unlikely.

Flap Track 6 is saying some things and in such a manner that at least suggest he/she is close to some info. Getting a fourth Western build line going (1 x Aus, 1 x UK, 2 x US) is important. Keeping two design teams and two designs going is also an important consideration. As the QEC proved it is possible to build first-of-class at a site that hasn't done significant builds for a long time - we have gotten better at this stuff.

Given the existing yard capacity constraints and personnel pipeline generation constraints, a LOTE of the Collins is pretty much a given. As is a lot of joint operation and deployment. And a lot of money has gone into Oman. The SSN(R) path seems to have the edge most ways. The more interesting question for some of us then becomes what systems would be selected. Assuming a USN fit being shoved into a first-of-class SSN(R) is perhaps a step too far.