Airliner intercept for training?
 

Is it legal to intercept an airliner just for practice?

Ryanair B738 over Austria on Oct 25th 2019, aircraft intercepted by fighter aircraft

Yes Please!!
 

I'm not ashamed to say "I don't know the current rules, in Austria, the US, worldwide".
That's why I'm asking those who know better than I do.

Sadly, these days, likely pax response would be 'can we claim compensation for the stress' while searching for 'no win, no fee' lawyer types

In the "good old days" most passengers were pleased to see a military aircraft close up. "Better than an air display". It also of course showcased the RAF. I guess, sadly, the old days are gone.

Because would could possibly go wrong ? Inadvertent weapons release by a QRA interceptor is not a possibility ?

Vaguely remember an Italian DC-9 getting shot down over the Adriatic, never fully resolved afaik.

You can google inadvertent shoot-downs or weapons release due human factors and switchology mistakes for interesting reading on the relatively commonplace nature of such events.

Kind of sobering. This year google reports a NATO QRA fighter fired an AMRAAM by mistake or even moving to the brave new world of AI and networked systems the Indians shot down one of their own helicopters this month.

Running intercepts on airliners with QRA aircraft and war rounds is inviting Murphy's Law. Using airliners for SAM training probably not so wise as well.

I was asked last year out of Brisabne, Australia if it was ok for a military aircraft out of Amberley to practice an few intercepts.

At night, so the passengers would not have known or saw them.

I was in B737.

Officer was happy, so we said sure.

DC 9
 

Was an attempt to shoot down Ghadaffi in his DC9 that went wrong. They correctly got one of his fighter escorts but wrong DC 9.
in spite of a 30 year cover up an Italian court awarded damages to the families against the Italian navy iirc.

Dave
 

I flew DC9s at the time for the Swiss over that route. The airline was run by predominately military pilots with very close links to Nato fighter colleagues and our security department shortly afterwards condoned our continued flying over the region knowing what actually happened having assessed the risk.
International press had at one time stated that Ghadaffi had been involved as wreckage from a Libyan Mig was discovered in Italy.
I had a french mate who had flown off a yank carrier in the Med who knew the inside story, he sadly died flying his motorglider in the Alps a few years ago. It was only at his funeral that I discovered his relatively senior rank.
Re conspiracy theories watch bbc i player https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008c47 you will note that the collusion of the secret services in the last two programs and the lack mentioning the bombing campaign against BEA. One aircraft diverted to Manchester with a bomb under a pax seat cushion. There was a file on it which I tried to get release on around 2014 but was frozen for 40 years. After the freezing period expired I recontacted the department that held it who eventually replied that it didnt exist. There was a reference to it in the national archive at Kew.

The article says the Austrians will be carrying out "intercept training". No mention of intercepting airliners.

Back in the 1980s & 1990s it was common over Europe. Many times Maastrich control would ask if we minded their F4s playing around us. Good to watch IMHO.

Except the Ryanair flight that was intercepted, as confirmed by the Austrians.

Back in my day, one could put "RMK/EMBELLISH" in field 18 to say don't mind being intercepted. Is that still in use?

No way in this world would I allow my passengers or my crew to be exposed to this! If they get it wrong, your dead. They get to eject!

They have their own training resources for this. No need to put the public at risk.

I vaguely recall a Qantas incident in Japan many years ago where a US Fighter Jet snuck up on them and set off theIr TCAS!

Who made such attempt?

Video FR-9026 30 Oct 2019

"Now barrel-roll over the top to give the other side a look!" No Bloggs, Fathom would have kittens... :}

I remember being intercepted through prior arrangement over the Irish Sea by a Tornado. It was a “jolly” for all the pax so there was a 3rd pilot on the JS doing PAs - he counted down and at zero they went full afterburner which was enjoyed by all as it was a night flight.

These days I think the H&S risk assessment would say “no” before you asked the question. If you’d really like to see some military aircraft up close, don’t reply to radio calls for 10mins over Europe...

Does anyone else recall the regular experimental routing of scheduled passenger services up the East Coast from London on 1991/2? It was a sort of "hang a left at Clacton VOR and keep going north-ish"-arrangement . The idea was to free capacity on the Daventry Sector.

The Aerad charts were almost solid blue east of Alpha 1 in those days, service provided by Eastern Radar, and intercepts fairly common, so I understand.

Somewhere there is a photo of a couple of Tornadoes formate-ing with a BA 757.

At the time of the first Gulf war, I was working on the cross Channel ferries. During one particular return voyage from Boulogne, the Captain came on the tannoy and advised passengers the RAF would be making some low passes for "training purposes". We and most of the passengers spent a delightful quarter of an hour watching a pair of Tornados make a series of "straffing runs" at an altitude that just cleared the mast tops.

After 5 or so passes, they flew in a big circle around the ship before departing and climbing rapidly on afterburners to a huge cheer and applause from the passengers.

Why don't you ask this question on the Military Forum, I'm sure that you may receive some more informed answers?

I my day QRA (or its equivalent) was entitled to Police all of its Nations Sovereign Airspace. There were set regulations and qualification requirements ie Combat Ready AD.

Civilian pilots should be pleased rather than scared, worried or distressed when being intercepted by a qualified pilot/crew.

Of course if you choose to blunder through VRF airspace and come close to a 2V2 Air Combat sortie then "see and avoid"!

It happened - allegedly
 

We used to contract Concorde to fly large supersonic figures of 8 over the north sea and used Lightnings and F4s to fly practice intercepts against Concorde.

Allegedly a Lightning flown by D*** G****** overtook the Concorde and barrel-rolled around it. The Concorde crew were not impressed.

FW

Yep, thx.

Mods please feel free.

It could have been worse:-

https://www.pprune.org/2404491-post3.html

What spiffing larks
 

Looks like fun BUT the Video poster says -
''Our flight disappeared from radars while flying over Austria. ATC was unable to communicate with our plane. We were flying from Girona to Bratislava, 25.10.2019 on Ryanair Boeing 737-800
Austrian Air force sent 2 Eurofighter Typhoons to check out on our flight.
Cabin crew was silent. During this flight no information about this encounter was given to passengers.''

Oops - well it's viral now....

"Our flight" implies that the author/photographer was a passenger on the flight.

How does a passenger know that the aircraft they are on has disappeared from radar ?

Good point as always Dave the sleuth - maybe the pax found out stuff from the Press before he uploaded his vid? dunno

Best.

That's a good story, considerably 'embellished' from the one I heard.

I'd say practice intercepts are much more common than known as sovereign countries have their own rights to practice. Who would notice a fighter behind or below him? Or a hot missile aiming for him...
Might feel uncomfortable but this is the reality. No drama.

Don't confuse the 'handful' of accidental shoot downs with what happens on QRA. There is a very clear understanding that the aircraft are armed, which is why there will be a number of checks that all is 'switches safe'- the fighter is not going to get within 10 miles of an intercept without confirming that there is no prospect of an inadvertent weapon release - there are many checks and balances in the system. The pilots of these aircraft do not just make it up as they go.

What 'quite a few' collisions are we talking of here? Fighter vs airliner? Their pilots fly in close formation almost every day, and what collisions do occur tend to happen on the close formation environment. With the QRA scenario, they will not be allowed to close on their 'target' until they are in visual contact.

But don't worry about denying them the opportunity to practice - they will defend you anyway come the day. And for half your salary.

That seems implausible unless the Concorde was subsonic.
The Lightning had Mach 2 capability, but not for long, hardly enough to climb to Concorde level 60,000 ft and then do barrel rolls.

Have a hard time buying off on the barrel roll part.