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-   -   New trailer is out for Dunkirk. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/588265-new-trailer-out-dunkirk.html)

Tankertrashnav 17th Dec 2016 16:56


Well, depends which acts of heroism it is you're talking about.
It's looking like he's playing a civilian with a boat going to help out in the evacuation - I wasn't aware there was an age limit for those people?
Sorry I thought you were referring to the naval rating I described in my previous post. Of course he could well be the right age for a civilian boat owner - plenty of men that age took part in the rescue.

Both of Rylance's grandfathers were POWs of the Japanese, and this maybe has led to his very strong pacifist views. Nothing wrong with that, but I am less impressed with his patronage of the Stop the War Coalition, which seems to exist to protest against all wars, except those where Russia is involved.

Not a bad actor, though.

muppetofthenorth 17th Dec 2016 18:20


Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav (Post 9612592)
Sorry I thought you were referring to the naval rating I described in my previous post. Of course he could well be the right age for a civilian boat owner - plenty of men that age took part in the rescue.

Both of Rylance's grandfathers were POWs of the Japanese, and this maybe has led to his very strong pacifist views. Nothing wrong with that, but I am less impressed with his patronage of the Stop the War Coalition, which seems to exist to protest against all wars, except those where Russia is involved.

Not a bad actor, though.

Indirectly, I was, but yeah, I meant more general acts, rather than uniformed acts.

The 'miscasting' of older actors (technically inaccurate, but completely understandable) has continued: Tom Hardy is shown as a pilot but is 39.

And you're right about Rylance. His part in Bridge of Spies was more apt.

Hangarshuffle 17th Dec 2016 18:48

The only dit I know about Dunkirk is the one my old mum spins me. As a child, her adult neighbour was a reservist Pioneer Corp private. He worked what they called "on the drops" down on the river (basically discharging coal from railway into collier ships),he was probably a tough working man normal for the era. He was called up on outbreak and then caught up in the whole debacle of evacuation of the BEF. He returned to England so shell shocked and frightened that he was immediately discharged from the Army. Upon return home he then fled to his bedroom and remained within his own four walls, without leaving the house, for weeks on end. Finally, grandmother heard the slow playing of a piano next door (through the wall)...this was the pioneer, starting to return to a slow recovery. Using music to calm himself.
All films are only even 1% true representation of the utter horror war inflicts upon the ordinary British working man IMHO.

Onceapilot 17th Dec 2016 19:38

Chris Scott

But I don't think I'd recognise a DB 605.
I think the DB605 in a 109G sounds quite like a slightly gruffer Merlin with a bit more supercharger howl. The DB601 in a contempary BoB 109E sounds very much the same as a DB605, IMO. If you trawl youtube, you can listen to these original restored engines. Of course, two of the important WW2 aero-engines that you cannot hear in modern times are, the Napier Sabre or, the Junkers Jumo 211. Let's hope that can be fixed soon. To me, perhaps the most evocative aero-engine sound is on a contemporary youtube recording of the 1929 Schneider Trophy. Search youtube "1929 Schneider Trophy" and you will find the great posting by "aviation bomberguy" The original sound of Atcherley's S.6 with its 1929 Rolls-Royce "R" engine roaring along The Solent shows the technological skill that helped to win the air war 10 years later. For those interested, the 1929 "R" engine ran at full throttle for the whole race (upto 1 hour at 3000rpm and 13psi boost, 1900bhp)!:D
BTW, no original 1929 Rolls-Royce "R" engine exists, they were all consumed in the development of the 1931 "R" engine.

OAP

NutLoose 17th Dec 2016 20:19


For those interested, the 1929 "R" engine ran at full throttle for the whole race (upto 1 hour at 3000rpm and 13psi boost, 1900bhp)!
For OAP


The Unlimiteds go flashing through the racecourse, engines howling, air shearing, heat waves streaming. Four hundred eighty miles an hour is 8 miles a minute, and the elite racers take about 70 seconds to cover the 9.1 mile Reno course. If you could take a souped P-51 racer flying the circuit at Reno, slow time down, and examine just one second, what would you find?

In that one second, the V-12 Rolls-Royce Merlin engine would have gone through 60 revolutions, with each of the 48 valves slamming open and closed 30 times. The twenty four spark plugs have fired 720 times. Each piston has traveled a total of 60 feet in linear distance at an average speed of 41 miles per hour, with the direction of movement reversing 180° after every 6 inches. Three hundred and sixty power pulses have been transmitted to the crankshaft, making 360 sonic booms as the exhaust gas is expelled from the cylinder with a velocity exceeding the speed of sound. The water pump impeller has spun 90 revolutions, sending 4 gallons of coolant surging through the engine and radiators. The oil pumps have forced 47 fluid ounces, roughly one-third gallon, of oil through the engine, oil cooler, and oil tank, scavenging heat and lubricating the flailing machinery. The supercharger rotor has completed 348 revolutions, its rim spinning at Mach 1, forcing 4.2 pounds or 55 ft³ of ambient air into the combustion chambers under 3 atmospheres of boost pressure. Around 9 fluid ounces of high octane aviation fuel, 7,843 BTUs of energy, has been injected into the carburetor along with 5.3 fluid ounces of methanol/water anti-detonant injection fluid. Perhaps 1/8 fluid ounce of engine oil has been either combusted or blown overboard via the crankcase breather tube. Over 1.65 million foot pounds of work have been done, the equivalent of lifting a station wagon to the top of the Statue of Liberty.

In that one second, the hard-running Merlin has turned the propeller through 25 complete revolutions, with each of the blade tips having arced through a distance of 884 feet at a rotational velocity of 0.8 Mach. Fifteen fluid ounces of spray bar water has been atomized and spread across the face of the radiator to accelerate the transfer of waste heat from the cooling system to the atmosphere.

In that one second, the aircraft itself has traveled 704 feet, close to 1/8 mile, or roughly 1.5% of a single lap. The pilot's heart has taken 1.5 beats, pumping 5.4 fluid ounces of blood through his body at a peak pressure of 4.7 inches of mercury over ambient pressure. Our pilot happened to inspire during our measured second, inhaling approximately 30 cubic inches (0.5 liter) of oxygen from the on-board system, and 2.4 million, yes million, new red blood cells have been formed in the pilot's bone marrow.

In just one second, an amazing sequence of events have taken place beneath those polished cowlings and visored helmets. It's the world's fastest motorsport. Don't blink!


Rolls-Royce

noflynomore 17th Dec 2016 20:57

Why is the pilot breathing oxygen at ground level? Even if this is some kind of forced aspiration system it would surely be air, not O2?

NutLoose 17th Dec 2016 22:03

Possibly because with the cut down canopy they tend suffer a lot more from exhaust gasses entering the cockpit.

esa-aardvark 18th Dec 2016 06:08

Onceapilot, I recall (from distant recesses) putting fuel into Atcherly's
car. He was, I think Air commodore, and had a nice Jag (???) with twin
tanks. That would have been around 1960 (give or take)

tartare 18th Dec 2016 07:36

Suspect you're right Nutty.
Typhoon pilots (WW2) wore masks all the time due to problems with carbon monoxide entering cockpit - some kind of design fault IIRC.

Onceapilot 18th Dec 2016 09:03

Thanks Nutty, Yes the unlimited racers are impressive developments. For me though, it is always the original prototypes and trailblazers that have the most historic value and technological majesty, in some cases!:ok:
Thanks esa-vark, If you look up that vid you can see the young grinning Fg Off RLR Atcherly at Calshot in 1929.:)

OAP

Martin the Martian 18th Dec 2016 11:12

Well, I'm planning to go and see it when it's out. Christopher Nolan does not tend to disappoint.

And as for the close formation Spitfires, quite appropriate for the Area Fighting Tactics used by Fighter Command at the time.

Finningley Boy 18th Dec 2016 15:46


pr00ne. Yes, we had a big Empire. Just how long do you think it would have taken to get the troops and equipment from Canada, India, Australia, NZ etc, as opposed to Hitler being just across the Channel? Don't forget, if we had lost the B of B, the USA would not have had the big offshore aircraft/troop carrier in place, D Day wouldn't have happened, and then where would we be?
Not to mention how fractured that Empire was, the cohesion of the Wehrmacht, Waffen SS and so together with old Joe Stalin being a genuine ally of Hitler at the time while Joe Kennedy Snr, US Ambassador did us no favours whatsoever with his subjective reports back to he White House and the rather agreeable attitude of the Dublin Government toward Hitler, we were very much alone and against a much larger and superiorly equipped land fighting force (Germany eventually generated over 400 Divisions to our 40, albeit neither were fully deployed simultaneously, but you get the picture.

FB:)

rolling20 18th Dec 2016 15:56

I haven't seen the trailer, but the ad I saw depicted 3 well shaven men sitting on the beach like they were on their holidays. During those chaotic days, the troops didn't have anything to eat, let alone shave!

muppetofthenorth 18th Dec 2016 16:04


Originally Posted by rolling20 (Post 9613444)
I haven't seen the trailer, but the ad I saw depicted 3 well shaven men sitting on the beach like they were on their holidays. During those chaotic days, the troops didn't have anything to eat, let alone shave!

Speaking from personal experience ...Er, I mean, I heard from a friend... some 18-20 year olds (not unreasonable age for soldiers) don't need to shave everyday or even every other day to remain clean shaven.

Pontius Navigator 18th Dec 2016 18:13

The advantage for the film makers of this film compared with others like Tirpitz, Bismarck, Graf Spee is the back story. The front story, OP Dynamo, is the framework but the little boat owners have a wider range of stories from which to draw and of the retreat, even more.

The new Dambuster film, if ever, is in a rigid setting where as the Dunkirk back story could be completely different from the earlier film.

glad rag 18th Dec 2016 21:51

That looks great and if it connects with the young through actors, gci, and media so much the better..

reynoldsno1 19th Dec 2016 02:15

My Dad was in France in 1940. He made it out at Brest as part of Operation Ariel. It took a month to get from Reims to Brest - I have the diary he kept at the time, discovered after his death. He spoke about his experiences very rarely.
The one thing I immediately noticed in the trailer is how relatively clean everybody and everything looks. In Dad's diary one of the big events he related was having a wash in a river - once - in a month.

ExRAFRadar 19th Dec 2016 17:57

I live near the River Thames in Ham with Teddington Lock very close by.

Apparently a local boat yard owner back in 1940 got 100 small boats together at Teddington Lock and they all set sail for Dunkirk.

This website has some pics of the 'Little Ships' when they got together at Teddington for the Diamond Jubilee Pageant

Dunkirk "Little Ships" return to Teddington Lock ? Teddington, Middlesex, UK

MightyGem 19th Dec 2016 20:04


but the ad I saw depicted 3 well shaven men sitting on the beach
Probably Guardsmen. On the post Falklands lecture tour, that I attended, the Guards officer stated that his men washed and shaved every day, much to mirth of the Para reps. :E

Tankertrashnav 19th Dec 2016 23:20

During WW1, the Royal Welsh Fusiliers were renowned for bull, even in the trenches. Robert Graves, a subaltern in the regiment, relates how his men complained about this, saying "they werent in the guards". His reply was that when they proved they could fight as well as the guards, he would ease off on kit inspections, etc. He went on to write that in fact regiments which took the most care about smartness and cleanliness tended to have the fewest cases of sickness, trench foot etc, and were generally more efficient fighting troops than their scruffy comrades.

Merely looking like someone in the SAS doesn't make you a good soldier.


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