Veterans planning to leave Scotland in the event of a yes vote?
 

In the SNPs 600 odd page document on their vision for a future independent Scotland, it states their intention to take over responsibility for paying service pensions for veterans who remain living in Scotland. Now, this is only an intention, and presumably would be one of the many subjects that would have to be negotiated if the result is yes, it may not actually come to pass, however.....

A friend of my wife told her that she knew of "many" retired military personnel who intend to leave Scotland in the event of a yes vote, with their pension being the main area of concern.

How many is "many"? Well, this being a rumour site, I thought I'd ask if anyone else was aware of this, is in a similar situation, has similar intentions, etc.....

slight thread drift!
 

Well since no one has replied either way since OP put this up, I thought I'd introduce a little drift….

Batco doesn't live in Scotland, but his money is on the move out of his Scottish-based bank.

Regards
Batco

BATCO,

Is your bank even domiciled north of the border or does it jus have Scottish somewhere in the title? Even if it isn’t, the reality is that Edinburgh’s financial sector is not quite what once it was.

The Bank of Scotland/Scot Widows is a tiny part of the Lloyd’s group and up for grabs. The head of Scottish Widows is (this morning) complaining about the impact of relentless regulatory change but it's unlikely he'd ever want to invite even more cost, uncertainty and volatility by heading back properly north of the border.

Pensions meltdown threatens savings revolution - Telegraph

Standard Life is listed on the London stock exchange and is seemingly forever making noises about heading south for good and closing down (effectively) its call centre operations, and pension companies such as Scottish Life are now only brands owned by companies domiciled south of the border. The Royal Bank of Scotland is these days largely a Scottish company in name only, and run from London.

I suppose (in respect of AFPS and because it is an unfunded scheme) an intention to pay is the best that can be given. Whether or not the intent is ever going to be possibly later reneged on for political, regulatory or financial reasons is another matter..

If it is a positive vote.....
 

.....I will seriously consider moving south.

The deterrents are how much will I get for my nice house here and what will that buy me south of the border?? Not a lot I suspect.

The airy-fairyness of the arrangements for my service pension give me cause for concern. Will the annual increases continue?? How will my pension be taxed?

Above all I do not want to see the UK broken up to satisfy the ego of a man I consider a chancer. As a Scot through and through what has appalled me has been the anti-Englishness of the campaign and the serious nastiness of the Yes side. An associate of mine in a charity I'm involved in put a NO sticker in the back window of his car on Monday and that night had nails driven into his back tyres. The acrimony generated will take a long time to dissipate.

And of course last night Nicola Sturgeon said that if it was a NO vote they will hold another referendum within five years. Keep plugging at until the stupid voters cast their ballots the "right" way.
"Aye that'll be right as they say in her part of Scotland.

The Ancient Mariner

How odd - if the vote is "yes" the that Scottish git says it is "for ever": however, his mouthpiece says if "No" we can try again later -bit of "goose" and "gander" here methinks

I'm off ...
 

I'm out of here next week.
I rely on my RAF and Civil Service Pension, and a War Pension - I just don't trust the SNP. Whichever way the vote goes this will still be a beautiful country and wonderful people - with idiots for politicians.

But

Once again this is a 'nation' divided

It always was a disparate group of regions and clans but now you can add 'Yessers' and 'Nawers' to the mix.
The SNP will not take no for an answer so they will keep on banging their drum.
My little village is now divided with distrust and nastiness common.

If it goes yes - they simply can not afford what they have 'promised' let alone all the things they will need to set up, hence my worry about my pensions.

If it goes no then the "it's a' your fault" recriminations will start.

It's been a great twenty five years here ...
But I'm off - and can't wait.

Moving from Scotland isn't an option for me but I am concerned about my state pension and civil service pension if the vote is "Yes".

As a Canadian who has seen political murder, troops on the streets, kidnaping of embasy staff, financial chaos, discrimination againt anyone not considered a "Pure Quebecois", {not even First Nations citizens are granted this "purity" by the Seperatist idiots, this in spite of being here thousands of years befor any of us} I can only watch with horror the path that Scotland may go down, dont kid yourselves, it can and will happen North of Hadrians Wall if this stupidity comes about. We now live in Ontario, my kids having gone to French schools here, this was not permited under Bills 21 and 22 within Quebec lest they should contaminate the "purity" of the education system! They all have great jobs, partly due to their abillity to speak more than one language, somthing which sucesive seperatist governments within Quebec have tried to stamp out!

How very erudite.







.

I have been a very happy customer of a well known Scottish bank for over 30 years. The last time I spoke to my branch in St Andrews before moving to France, I asked if it would be safe to continue banking with them in the event of "Yes". The assistant manager told me that she had no idea. Should I move my pension and savings south of the border? Officially, there is no advice, but if I were you I would. So I am. How very sad. Best bank I ever dealt with. No, a superb bank.

There is now a Veterans' Commissioner. He should be able to answer any queries.

ScottishGovernment - News - Veterans Commissioner announced

Perthsaint, no one can answer any questions. No one knows.

Plenty of people know, Courtney.

Know what PS ??

Well why don't YOU tell us then, or are you merely here for s:mad:s and giggles?

I find your parochial view of veterans livelihoods insulting to put it mildly.

Parochial, glad? That's an odd one to throw. What would you like to know?

Answer the question then.

But you won't, will you. :mad:

How's this for ****s and giggles ... But also a pensioner my self but down Sarf

1. In all likelihood the arrangements will stand as the agreement is with country of which you served. Pension gets paid irrespective of where you live to a degree

2. How the scottish government treat the income for taxable purpose is another issue. That will be decided by the mandate of who the Scottish electorate elect

3.All bets are potentially off as The biggest issue will be currency arrangements. Even if sterling is used that does not protect the spending power of your payments. Especially if the snap keep talking about walking away from debt! They can forget having any borrowing power

I am getting a bad feeling about the way this is going and I do hope we all stay together. I don't think the challenge about oil running out is the big issue. The size of the Scottish elderly population, the fact that Scotland still imports most of its electricity from England etc etc all bode ill for life after independence.

I do hope whatever happens your pensions are safe.. Too hard won not to be !

perthsaint,

You say "plenty of people know", and then go on to ask, What would you like to know??

Well, I would like to know:

What will happen to military pensions for veterans living in an independent Scotland? Specifically:

Who will pay the pension?

What currency will it be paid in?

Will the pension for veterans living in Scotland be "linked" to those for someone with identical military service still living in the rest of UK, so a veteran isn't financially disadvantaged over time by having chosen to live in Scotland?

What happens to the pension for a veteran who lives in Scotland after independence, but chooses to move to England later, say in 2020?

How you can provide answers (as opposed to intentions) for any of these questions given that agreements on these matters will form part of post referendum discussions yet to take place between the respective governments?

Biggus,

Pensions will be paid by the Scottish Public Pensions Agency in sterling and will be the same as those paid in the rUK.

You're absolutely right to say that there will be discussions between the two governments. I can't see either or both wishing to use armed forces pensions as a political football though. Can you?

Perthsaint

How can you state in one sentence that pensions 'will' be paid, and in the next sentence acknowledge that there will have to be discussions between the two governments. You dont know how pensions will be paid. Like so many statements made by the Yes camp - your post is based on supposition and wishful thinking.

Do you seriously think pensions won't be paid?

perthsaint,

I would have to say, respectfully, that your "answer" is in fact merely an intention, proposal, plan, etc, and not a certainty or fact or the only option.


As for the comment by nimbev, he didn't say that pensions wouldn't be paid, just queried how they would be. Perhaps he was implying that veterans pensions would continue to be paid by MOD, as they are for veterans living in say France, as opposed to by a Scottish government?

No I can't, Perthsaint. We're small fry and, unless you personally are willing to front-up my pension, I can see no option other than transferring everything back into the UK.

Here's another thought for you. My second pension, as things stand, would be paid from the UK in sterling, to a Scottish bank using an, as yet, unknown currency, and then transferred to a bank in France in Euros. Three different currencies, one that has possibly defaulted right from the start, with unknown exchange rates. Would you take that risk?

"Say living in France?" Biggus. What are you saying? ;-)

Biggus,

I've posted the Scottish Government's policy. I don't know what the UK Government's intentions are but I don't think deciding how pensioners residing in Scotland are paid would be within their remit.

Courtney,

Only two currencies of course.

I would have thought that having pensions paid in different tax jurisdictions may be advantageous:cool:

Which is why nobody 'knows' anything !

Perthsaint, no advantage at all under the Anglo-French Double Tax Agreement, as I'm sure you and the Scottish "Government" know. Right? Transfers through three currencies can only lose in exchange rates and fees.

And your answers to all the other honest questions? And if you have any further doubts about how people feel, this may help...

Savage racism turning Scotland into a no-go zone for the English* | Mail Online

Two rates, Courtney.

I wasn't thinking of DTA's, more Personal Allowances. :cool:

And, yes, that's a rancid article in a rancid rag.

Exactly. It's all a right load of hot air, peoples livelihoods are a politicians [and a not very good one at that being an ex rbs employee] pawn to be used as they see fit.

Due to the nationalists "ex imperialists" rhetoric, I have no doubt that pensions are just one of the many taxable assets that will be used to fettle those deemed as requiring additional social assistance in the "Fair and Equal" pipe-dream they have sold to those whose thoughts only reach as far as the front of their flatscreens.

But you fail to denounce the subject.

Well, I'm pleased for you that you can make light of it, Perthsaint. For us it's a matter of our livelihood, for you it's clearly a matter of something where uncertainties don't matter. Good luck to you.

As you have waded in here with your opening shot, any chance you might offer some reasoned answers to the points that folk here are raising... ...not rhetoric, answers. Give it a go.

Courtney,

I've answered every question you've asked.

IThis is quite an astute observation. Contractually speaking, veterans' pensions were accrued through their service to the UK Armed Forces, so so liability to pay that pension would remain with the UK Armed Forces - which, of course, an Independent Scotland would not be part of.

Why would they voluntarily undertake a finical obligation that wasn't theirs?

The questions remain: What would be the tax treatment by an Independent Scotland Government for Forces pensions paid to Scotland residents from a foreign country ? and would you be better off with a Sterling payment - given that no-one knows what the Scottish legal tender will be?

A reasoned response to people that have sufficient worries to pull out of Scotland? I'm impressed.

You were the one who brought up the UK/France DTA, not I.

Perthsaint, the subject is vets bailing out out of Scotland because of fears that their livelihoods may be at risk. I and others have offered our concerns. Apart from a link to a website, you have not been able to offer anything other than one-liners and a smiley face. Not a great argument.

I only told you of my circumstances as an example. You want to make it into a political issue. But with no weight of argument. To lots of people it's more a matter of real concern. As they say on that TV programme, "I'm out." Assets moving south. And you would do well to note how many businesses will do the same. For the same reasons.

Courtney,

If people wish to be fearful where there is no reason to be then I can be of no assistance. Good luck to them and you.

As inflammatory statements go that one's a 9/10.

Your conviction and unthinking belief is almost religious.....

...and we all know where that leads, don't we......

Nothing to do with "fear". Would you risk your livelihood in the face of so much uncertainty? Rhetorical question.

Now, if you'd like to offer some reassurance to us all, please go ahead. Otherwise understand that businesses and people will move south for the same reasons that have already been stated here.

It's late in France, so, goodnight.