I'm a Scot, my father is a Scot, my grandfather was a Scot, our Scottish lineage goes back hundreds of years and I consider myself British...but I have no vote as I currently live abroad.

In the event of a Yes vote what sort of passport will I get when the current one expires? Although my money is safe(ish) off-shore, my pension is paid in to a bank account in England. What happens if I'm forced to become Scottish rather than British, will I still be able to retain that bank account. Here [in UAE] we need residency visas, etc to open an account.

I know we are all discussing the major issues of currency, Defence, NHS, etc but the little details have the potential to make many peoples' lives a living hell in the event of a Yes vote!

I note that the Immigration Minister has offered to send the fence from the NATO summit to Calais. Perhaps the Borders might be a better location come the 18th...

They will be sore disappointed when they discover they have still some way to go before reaching the border. Unless Salmond is thinking of a land grab.

Does this mean we could revoke James Naughtie's work permit?

I understand that at present if one is resident in Aus or NZ ones pension is frozen at the level it was at when one left the UK. Will this be the case for those living in Scotland should the jocks become independent?

I can't think why it should be any different; it would set a precedent for others.

It is the State Pension which does not get increases if you live in certain countries. The AFPS benefits are treated the same wherever you live (ie. increase with CPI). Haven't heard of plans to freeze the State Pension for those living in Scotland.

Shy torque

Agree and we are on the same page

I don't see why now we are offering even more concessions to stay as one country. They already get four hundred quid a year per person more than the rest of the uk. I can think of other more needy places than Scotland for this money.

Perhaps it is now for the best, if I was in Devon or Cornwall I would start stocking up with iodine

Our service to the crown also included Scotland, so debts, assets and liabilities will have to be negotiated and our pensions are a future liability paid for against the defence budget which I am sure the SNP have factored into their White Paper.

That's not quite true. Should the vote go Yes, the proposed timetable sees Scotland actually going independent in March 2016, (although that seems optimistic to me). Thus next year's general election in May will be fought in all the current seats including those in Scotland. It could well result in a small Labour majority, which would put Ed Milliband in the position of a prime minister who is on death row, figuratively speaking, with the date of his execution, when he loses those Scottish seats, already set. What would be the validity of any legislation put in place by such a lame duck government? The rest of the UK would be without effective government for 10 - 12 months or so.

Just like the last 17 years...

Tanker,

This situation has not gone unnoticed at Westminster, like many issues I don't expect it to be addressed until after the result of the referendum, but I know at least one suggestion that has been put forward is to delay the Westminster elections until May 16 if this situation comes to pass!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27129813

The effect of the Scottish National Socialists' Braveheart claptrap is already being felt in the world of finance:

From BBC News: Why vote for something which will simply bankrupt you? And more to the point, why doesn't the whole of the UK have any vote in this potentially ruinous folly?

Just my opinion, mind...

Well there is a bit of a difference. The UK is a single country, the EEC/EU is not a single country, it is a lose affiliation of many countries. No member state has the right of interference in another member state's internal business. What we have here is more akin to Yugoslavia and its disintegration - so very, very different.

I thought the concern (certainly among those looking to get out) is that it's no longer such a loose affiliation.

I accept that there are differences, but the general principal stands. Do folks really think that the issue would be settled if Scotland voted to leave, but the rest of the UK voted to keep them in?

Sorry, but the comparison to the disintegration of Yugoslavia is alarmist (and lazy) clap-trap. None of the conditions that existed in Milosevic's Yugoslavia in the late 80s and early 90s exist in the UK today (as evidenced by the fact that the UK government has allowed the Scottish referendum to take place in the first place - not a privilege afforded to the Yugoslav republics by Belgrade).

Whatever happens following the referendum (yes or no), a Balkan-style war is not on the cards.

Beags,

As you were around for the Great Depression and all.....and knowing the Stock Market operates on two emotions, those being Greed and Fear....perhaps you would describe exactly what will happen that will "Bankrupt" us all should the "Yes" Side win in the Referendum?

Well, I said I would not be back to the hamster wheel thread on Jet Blast, and I have not. Yet here we had a mostly civilised discussion around some of the issues, then someone naughty pitches up and gets thirty days in the cooler for his shenanigans - thanks Wholi....

now it has been commented that us'm yokels down here need to start stocking up on the iodine, why? are more of you suspecting the move of the "Moscow Option" down to Guzz?

Let's look at this with a bit of rationality HMB Devonport and the associated big ole dockyard owned by Babcock already have the most nuke experience.

We can fit all the Bombers here without much work.

There is a big weapon store just round the corner, it has direct water and rail links to the yard. It also used to store nukes....

Where else will everything go?

And I never suggested that it would Mellie; reading things in one way not the way they were intended (very lazy thinking) but I will accept that perhaps I should have used the Czech and Slovak example instead. What I was referring to (obviously too subtly) was the disintegration of one country that was made up of a number of nations.

melthmothw, I have never heard of general principal - for which side is he standing?

Now had you written "general principle" your post would have made more sense - and been literate!

Good God. You guys are starting sound ridiculous. Look at the facile squabbles you've resorted to.

Indeed, after an important question by the OP and a good start it´s beginning to go the way of the hamsterwheel.:rolleyes:

Indeed. Hardly surprising. It's a emotive issue. But the politics do tend to get nasty and we're an aviation forum. No harm in debating surrounding issues, as the OP had started, but let's all keep it cool here.

If folk are looking for a good fight on poli matters, I'm told there's good action on Jet Blast.

Biggus - thanks for that link - very interesting. Personally I would think the best plan would be for Scotland to lose all its Westminster seats immediately a YES vote was confirmed, but then as I'm not a Labour voter and no fan of the coalition I would, wouldn't I? !

Getting back nearer to the original question, there were a number of Scots (not military veterans as far as I know) on tonight's Newsnight who expressed an intention to move South as soon as possible after a Yes vote. Looks as though the previously mentioned fall in house prices North of the border could well happen.

my ex-wife, now living in the central belt with my daughter, has suggested that she will be keeping the situation under review...

both are, to those around them, Scottish - accents etc.. but my ex says she's increacingly concerned not just about anti-English sentiment among 'yes' voters, but even worse, about the divisiveness of the campaign and whether its going to be possible to continue to live in a community riven with deep antagonism towards the 'no' side.

she's not, to my knowledge got stickers on her car or in her windows, but she's heard the word 'traitor' and 'sell-out' used about local 'no' people who dare to. its not the old hot-heads and bar-stool bravehearts, its normal family and friends who previously wouldn't have said boo to a goose..

Tanker its already started but selling houses is slow understandably and a lot of offers in Scotland are having a referendum clause built in ie if its yes the offer is invalid.

There are a lot though who are shifting assets to UKr locations. ie savings, brokers, licenses basically everything that we can so its not under the umbrella of Scotland.

Some of it is just address changes to relatives in the south but others are changing bank accounts.

All I have left now is my drivers license attached to an address in Scotland.

Since I really have no interest in the political, I have focussed on precisely this point in my occasional social media dalliances....my posts have been roundly ignored, in the heat and fever surrounding the emotional stuff.
Human beings come in all shapes and sizes, but those that generate wealth (for themselves and others) are generally pretty switched on and always streetwise survivors. Everybody in the UK is currently British, so everybody in the UK is going to have the freedom to make some sort of choice (although residential circumstances will play a part, of course).

Ask yourself this then...a likely outcome (and risk takers always play the probability) is a Scottish lurch to the left and and an English lurch to the right.

Which way do you think the money will flow? It won't just be wealthy, prosperous, "English" heading south...there will be plenty of wealthy, prosperous "Scots" doing likewise.

As to the structural changes to our political system...I see two possibilities:

18 months of chaos

or

Maybe, just maybe, parliament will recognise the dangers of uncertainty to rUK and unite in an informal coalition to take the initiative and expedite the radical changes that will be needed.

Now would that not be cool...

Imagine what would go through AS's head if he woke up from his post YES hangover, to be greeted with the news...yeah, you're not getting currency union, we already know what we are doing with Trident (and the rest of the armed forces), the next election will be May 2016, so no more interfering in rUK. Anything else...no, shut the door on your way out then.

All this talk of people leaving if the election doesn't go their way sounds familiar

BBC NEWS | VOTE2001 | Are you still here?

^^

Apples and oranges mate...and it's not even close. You need to go and research the Irish Free state and/or Indian Independence it you want to find out the sorts of things that WILL occur.

And the people I'm talking about usually don't give a **** about politics...so it is squat to do with the political outcome (and it's a referendum, not an election).

The people I'm talking about will be looking at what is best for themselves and their families....and that is all.

I don't think the 'difference' between an election and a referendum is really what's at issue here.

Of course, the celebs who always threaten to leave are just thinking about the financial circumstances of their families also.

You seriously believe that civil war and massacres will follow a yes vote? Should I not also research the Velvet Divorce between the Czech Republic and Slovakia, mate?

no not initially.

In the event of a no vote I can see some quite nasty civil unrest.

The problem will be how the population reacts when it finds out that its been lied to.

And linked with the fact that they will feel external sources will have colluded to not give them their utopia.

This includes scots that have asset stripped there holdings in Scotland.

And it is happening, amongst my friends already over half a million of taxable income has departed Scotland residence and that is less than 10 people.

In the event of a Yes vote, I think the problem will be in a few years time if and when things get economically difficult for the Scots. Scottish MPs will portray their problems as the result of English intransigence over the negotiated independence settlement.

And you know what, in the event the Scots leave, I would want Westminster to drive a bloody hard bargain. Salmond will be in an interesting negotiating position; what's he going to do - not leave?

Scottish independence: a defining moment for England, too

......Much of what Mr Salmond hopes for in the proposed post-independence negotiations, such as currency union and his ill-defined “social union”, depend crucially on English goodwill. Such goodwill might be a commodity in distinctly short supply if Scotland votes Yes on September 18.

For the most likely long-term effect of a Scottish Yes vote is a swing to an English nationalist government in the rest of the United Kingdom, a government determined to drive a hard bargain with Scotland in the post-independence negotiations under the tight timetable that Mr Salmond proposes – precisely the opposite to the prospectus the separatists are offering. And there is a Chinese saying to the effect that the man with the tightest timetable also needs the deepest pocket........

It will be interesting to see how the English nationalist government will go down in Wales and NI. Such a knee jerk reaction would only hasten the end of what's left of the UK.

Of course, this could all be academic and on the 19th it will be a case of 'as you were'.

Whatever the vote - it'll never be a case of "as you were" again, at least not in Scotland. This issue has created a lot of antagonism, passion, emotion, argument and even violence, divided families and communities and opened up rifts that will take a lot time to heal, if ever.


That's half the point!!

It will be 'as you were' in terms of the UK still existing, but I accept there will be consitutional changes in the direction of greater home rule and perhaps even federalism (something I don't happen to think is such a bad thing).

As to the rifts and schisms that you say have opened up in Scottish society, I'll have to defer to you on that as I don't live there.

No you don't - which is another very valid point to consider when people read some of the comments posted on here, both by yourself and some others, you have no first hand experience of the situation on the ground.

Well, if "first hand experience of the situation on the ground" is a requirement for posting Biggus there's going to be a LOT of posts on this and other threads that will need deleting.

As I've said previously, my interest in the subject and 'right' to post here comes from being a citizen of the UK who will be affected by the referendum in the same way as the vast majaroty of those offering their opinions in this forum.

PS; The last time I checked, Scotland never was in the Roman Empire which leads to wonder where you're posting from...

It is not only veterans living in Scotland, but all pensioners, who need be concerned about the financial implications. The stock market is dropping, and the sterling exchange rate is slipping. The first affects our investment income, and the incomes to our (non-service) pension funds, the latter has an enormous affect on those living outside the U.K., and a lesser affect on those of us who buy foreign currency for holidays.
This is already happening, simply because the opinion polls show that a yes vote is a possibility.
If it actually happens,the effect will be many times worse.
In the event of a no vote, the whole issue will be raised again in another 5 years, causing more turmoil, unless the Scots decide to get rid of Salmond and his crew, and that looks unlikely.

mel,

If you read my post fully, you will see that I referred to both yourself and others who aren't actually living in Scotland.

Neither did I say that you and such people couldn't post on the subject, so where did that comment come from? I simply said that readers should take into consideration any lack of first hand experience when weighing up someones comments, a perfectly reasonable suggestion I would have thought.

You seem to have a track record of (almost deliberately?) misreading both mine, and other peoples, posts on pprune. I would have thought it was also blindingly obvious from my posts, if you actually read them correctly, that I live in Scotland at the moment!

Thanks Biggus, I got that. I was answering for myself.

I read your comment otherwise, but happy to accept your clarification. No big deal.

I think what you meant to say was that I have a track record of disagreeing with both yours, and other peoples, post on pprune. That's not the same as misreading your posts, 'almost deliberately' or otherwise.

It was your Location, rather than than your posts, that made me wonder where your were. Again though, happy to accept you live in Scotland if you say so.