So you've got nothing to worry about, longer ron.

Yep, if there's one thing we can say with certainty about the proposed EU vote, it's that 'nationalism' and racism will play no part in it (you have read the Daily Mail, right?)

The damage is already done Melmoth !

There may be another factor that influences how people answer the poll questions... let us hope it is that !

Melmothw, Yes PQ is still part of Confederation, but not really, its a typical Canadian compromise in which a series of goverments in Quebec stomp on anything which is not ordained as "pure Quebecois" the rest of the country turns a blind eye, so as to avoid troops on the streets again. Lets face it, when the "Speach Police" {yes, they REALLY do exist} tries to shut down an Italian resteraunt for using the word "Pasta" on the menu, then you know why most of the money/brains have bailed out long ago.By the way, both myself and my children speak French/English, the saving grace in this situation is so many Quebecers have gone West to partake of the oil boom and are seeing that the outside world is not as presented by the fanatics, thus with any kind of luck this may all go away given time, but it will take time, if indeed it ever takes place in part due to the lack of good language tuition in our school systems, the Swiss being a good example of how to do it.

melmothw,

Once again you seem to read things into peoples comments that are not actually there. I am not trying to shout you down, and while my likely voting preference may be obvious, I am not aware of anything I have written on here that deliberately seeks to persuade people to vote one way or another. I was not aware of being on a soapbox.

My interest is simply in the situation regarding veterans pensions in a post independent Scotland.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. Is one persons opinion worth more than anothers? Actually I'd say yes to that question. As just a couple of examples, the use of "expert" witnesses in court cases, Courtney Mil's opinion on fighter operations would be worth more than mine. Your opinion (whether it be yes or no) would appear not to based on direct experience of events on the ground in Scotland. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that my opinion is worth more than yours - just that not all opinions are equal. I'm sorry if you disagree with that, or feel I'm shouting you down, but it's my opinion...which no doubt under your values you have to at least respect if not agree with?

Yes, as a UK citizen you will be effected by the outcome, which seems somewhat ironic as not all UK citizens have a say in the matter, but nowhere near as much as someone living in Scotland.

Tone is often difficult to read in posts such as this, if you think I'm coming over as aggressive, shouting you down, disregarding your opinion, I can do nothing other than apologize. All I can say is that I'm trying to relate how this all feels to someone actually caught up in the heart of it to the extent that it dominates everything else and results in you facing potentially life changing decisions.

Those sound like issues that are peculiar to Quebec and Canada, and haven't surfaced in over a decade of Scottish or Welsh devolution. Can't really see it being an issue post independence IMHO.

No worries Biggus, I think one think we can both agree on is that it's an emotive issue for sure.

Melmothw, I dont think your reciever is working, such issues are not peculier to the Canadian situation alone, the outflow of capitol, brains,talent , industry,will take place if this vote goes to the "yes" side, this has been the case in nearly all such {with one exception} events throughout history, Ive had the misfortune to be involved in two such situations, I sugest you read a bit of recent history, belive me, when you have seen whole streets of houses going for twenty cents on the dollar, including the one you are living in, it tends to make one very nervous about the UK/Scotish situation!

I just wish I could sell my house and get the flock out of Scotland! Even in the Borders the atmosphere has changed already! Very aggressive Yes voters on the streets and No campaign posters being removed or defaced! As already said, the damage has been done and I can only see it getting worse!:E

So...does a "Yes" Vote on this mean house values in Scotland will go down? Might there be bargains to be had for those with some retirement money to invest?

Might one find a place on a River somewhere for a bit of fishing yet?

Or say a small Croft on Skye or out that way then perhaps?

Or should One continue to look at Ireland for that last place prior to the final Round Up?

House prices are stagnant! Sales are non existent for anything over three hundred thousand! If the vote is Yes then even more will come on the market so I suspect there will be plenty of bargains around!

Nothing wrong with my receiver Clunck.

I'm not suggesting it will be all milk and honey should the yes vote win, but I'd suggest that predictions of civil strife and troops on the streets are probably just as wide of the mark.

Many countries haven't done so badly under independence, Canada among them. You might want to read up on some of that history yourself mate.

Independance you say? Dear Lord we only repatriated our constitution a few years back under the government of PET, Quebec of course refused to sign so we are still not a unified nation, as for Canada doing well, the province I live in has a five billion dollar public dept and has no cash whatsoever to maintain our roads and other infrastructure, we only survive by selling our food and other natural resorces, along with our oil, to China and the USA at a fraction of true value'.Like many "Poms" you dont have a bloody clue about the real situation in Canada, now I must go and smash a few skulls on cute baby seals so we can eat this winter!

And yet despite all the hardships you describe, the Canadians don't seem to be beating a path back to reunification with the UK government. How odd.
And yet you have no qualms in coming on here to lecture me about the situation in the UK. Oh, and I'm Welsh mate, so not a 'Pom'.

@Clunkdriver

Did not realise things were that bad almost sounds like out of Clive Cussler's Night Train which continues the adventure of Dirk Pitt and the NUMA Agency caught up between a Marxist and Sov backed Free Quebec movement led by a ruthless KGB trained terrorist in cahoots with a Quebec minister and on top of that a semi retired British Intelligence agent wanting to disrupt the US. Government and NUMA from salvaging a train and a ship in US and Canada which holds a document signed by Woodrow Wilson and the King of England handing over Canada to the USA.

In the beginning the Quebec terrorists are claimed to be responsible for many murders and act of terrorism including - shooting down of the Canadian PM aircraft with stolen British made hand held SAMS (fictionally named but probably based on the Blowpipe missile as the Canadian Army had them )

Anyhow what you also paint can be a bleak picture w.r.t the Scots ..in essence could it end up like the Troubles in NI?

What's the odds Scotland will go independent in reality .... And us lot down South will let it be?

Cheers

Acording to my Kiwi wife, any person from your area is a "Pom", as for me I was born in the UK but left many many years ago, my father being Irish and an RFC vet {observer on BE2C and RE8s} it became obvious that I would be better of out of the place, however having spent many years on layovers there I must confess both my wife and I are thinking of spending the winters in the UK, OK, so it rains a bit, but as a wise man said, "you dont have to shovel rain!"The improvment in the quality of life in the UK since the late fifties far exceeds that in Canada, this is clearly reflectd in our imigration figures, most are coming from truly crappy places, very few these days from Europe or other advanced countries.

Sorry for the slight thread drift, but maybe the OP has the right more than anyone else!


However, purely for the purposes of clarification, the term pommie/pommy seems to refer to someone who is British

Pommy: definition of Pommy in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)

and would thus include the English, Welsh and Scots. ;)

Oxford vs Cambridge eh?

Two different opinions - quite apt in the circumstances!!

What have English, Welsh and Canadians got to do with this? It's a Scottish issue. Let them make their decision, and then live with it. No-one else's business but theirs.

FWIW I think they will (and to some extent already have) crucify themselves, but it's their right to do what they think is the right thing to do. Not England, Wales or Canada. Or Ireland or the US.

Leave them to it.

So Roadster, If California decides to join Mexico {again} you would not feel as an American feel that you could comment on this move? Somehow I doubt you would would take this position.Scotland is part of the UK, the Brits will be very much affected should UDI take place, they and the rest of the Comonwealth have every right to partake in the debate, just as we did when Rhodesia declared their independence. {and look what a bloody shambles that turned out to be}

The trouble is, Roadster, the decision affects us in the rest of the UK to a very great extent. Just one thing which has been mentioned many times, but say you were a Labour supporter (I'm not btw!). Scottish Independence would remove approximately 40 Labour MPs from the Westminster parliament at a stroke, and see Labour's chances of getting back into government vanishing into the distant future (hooray!).

Similarly its not something thats going to be just decided by "the Scots" (this has already been covered). Only those resident and registered to vote in Scotland (including thousands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish) will be able to vote. On the other hand Scots living outside of Scotland wont have a say. This may come as a surprise to US citizens, who can vote postally wherever in the world they may currently reside, but that's the way Wee Eck wanted it, so that's the way it's going to be!

Such a divisive issue. Understandably, the subject drifts from the OP's idea to the usual highly charged arguments. And why not? As long as we can all let it go when the time is right.

Anyway, now that Perthsaint is on holiday, I would like to restate my answer to the original post:

Not knowing quite how the political promises from either side will come true and given that YES is quite likely, I need to safeguard my income. A significant part of that is my RAF pension. Currently it is paid into our long-standing Scottish bank account. The nice people there were unable to say that my income would be safe going through them, which was very honest.

Would I feel safe with my pension going from the UK to Scotland (with no idea what the currency might be or the exchange rate or transfer fees) and then to France (same again). Well, honestly, what would you do?

To look after my family, I see no option than to move my money out of Scotland.

Some reasoned and well considered thoughts on how the different people of these Isles might live together post independence there IG.

Mel, it seems to bring out the worst in people. Hardly surprising. It's a big issue with way too many uncertainties. And it's uncertainty that makes me want to play safe. I would irresponsible to do anything else.

Mel - I've followed the reasoned and well considered posts on here until I'm up to the nostrils.

I'm ex-RAF and Yorkshire, and I know what it is like to struggle on a low pension. So I could use a bit of slack...on the other hand...

In my book - Independence is Independence...this means that one is purposely "not-dependent", or a "dependant". Being dependent to some degree is not "Independence".

One is either one or the other.

Now - on another note, if the funding of my pension was irrevocably bound into some relatively obscure "post independence" financial strategy I would be seriously worried about my future health and wellbeing.

Therefore I pose a question, if Scotland, as a nation, needed to take out some income protection insurance to cover post-independence risks, what would their terms and premiums look like, or would they be refused?

Considering the level of risk as I see it - I would be declining to quote.

Imagegear

Ok Image Gear, fair enough. I get that it's an emotive issue and that people are worried about the effects on their livelihoods and pensions. I guess we're in for a very interesting few weeks (and beyond depending on how things pan out in the vote).

Best

Yes, OK, fair points.

California is welcome to (re-)join Mexico as far as I am concerned. Very strange people over there.

But yes, I get the point about the Labour party being in Scheiße Straße if they go. And also that had this issue been on the table at the last election, there might be a different make-up of Parliament (Westminster).

I still feel though that if they want to do their own thing, there's not much to be done about it. You can't on the one hand say to Argentina that the Falklanders want to remain British and as long as that holds true they will be, whilst not doing the same thing with the Scots (albeit they are voting on NOT being British).

I suppose it is a game of damage limitation in Westminster. I think UK will have the last laugh though, if they go. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it, as they say.

I do agree with you Roadster that the vote is for the people of Scotland, regardless of who else in the UK it affects.

The UK is set to have a vote on whether to stay in the EU or not, and you can imagine the reaction if it became known that the vote was to be extended to the entire EU (it would, after all, affect them also). Just imagine the situation if the UK voted to leave, but Germany, France, etc, said no, and we had to stay (doesn't sound too democratic).

The so called EU 'Brexit' scenario is already being planned. It isn't just the Scotland vote that causes financial institutions concerns - if anything, that potential impact is quite limited in comparison. This ft link should be a free preview peek.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/57b39eda-2...#axzz3CeUrioZa

Good point, well made, Mel.

And you raise the next issue for us in France. We could end up being able to fly to Scotland as part of the EU, but not to the UK. Well, not without a visa or something. And then we could have Marine Le Pen's government, who won't want us either. Bugger.

I would have thought that if the CU argument is out of the way and asset division is agreed, then the Scottish Government should fund the military pensions for Scottish passport holders from their defence budget as the UK does.

In the recent Quebec Provincial Elections, there was outspoken support by the Parti Quebecois for another Independence Referendum. Most opinion polls across Canada, unlike previous years, showed an almost complete fatigue over the Independence issue, perhaps summarised as "So what, we're tired of it, let them leave if they want; we don't care any more".
The PQ was dumped out of power after 1 term (very rare in Canada), got their lowest vote since inception, and the Leader lost her seat.

One wonders how many Scots would vote to leave if the rUK attitude was "Byeee!", as opposed to the last minute concessions and near panic we seem to be getting.

But then, once a US citizen you always remain so in that you remain liable for US taxation irrespective of where you live.

Watch out the Scots, double taxation, as per the USA, may be deemed necessary!

Seems to me that the Scottish Separatist movement is being orchestrated by someone with a personal grudge against England and therefore a personal agenda. I have seen no evidence of a post separatist strategy to finance Scotland. Many repetitive, stonewalling answers from the sour-faced Salmond, but no sign of a policy and no business plan. If there is one, he has perhaps deliberately kept the less than palatable detail out of the equation.

The voters should take into consideration that this will truly be an occasion when the phrase "you deserve what you voted for" is very, very, appropriate.

Then watch out for the asylum seekers / economic migrants come clambering over the newly rebuilt Hadrian's Wall in years to come...... :}

ShyTorque

that is not strictly true... there is a joint taxation agreement between the US and the UK. You don't get taxed twice and frankly it can be quite beneficial if you are paying tax in the US. I get credit for paying tax in the UK and the US with both authorities. I get a nice cheque from uncle sam most years based on the tax I still pay in the US even though now UK resident. For example I can use my wife's tax allowance as we file jointly and my offspring are tax deductible. It either feels unfair at times or very generous and I am sure it is just there to keep accountants out of trouble

You can relinquish your us citizen ship but it is difficult. My daughter for example is a us citizen and has had to start filing tax returns at 16 to maintain her obligations and enjoy the benefits of both worlds.

Regarding Scotland, I would imagine it would be a no brainer to have the same arrangement with the UK and as above the individual both exchequers will manage it.

Regarding the EU and scotland, I can't seeing this being as easy as Salmond makes out. There are so many independence issues in the EU that I am sure it will set the wrong precedent. i.e. Basques and Spain, Danzig etc and not forgetting if the desire for Turkey to join is still there the Kurds. Not forgetting the mess that is eastern europe who have their own issues.

The only good news is the lothian question is sorted out once and for all and english MPs can decide what happens in england. It also makes it harder for idiots like Miliband to get in and it might bring back some conviction politics back.........

Frankly I don't think this has at all been well thought through and if the scots do go there own way... be careful for what you wish for.

Dagenham, the problem is, like everything behind the "Yes" vote, nothing about taxation has been even discussed in such detail, let alone cast in stone.

Scotland may find itself in difficult financial conditions for a whole host of reasons and once the plug has been pulled, no-one knows what will happen.

If Scotland really thinks that the present position can be no worse than under the present arrangement, then I say let it find out.

But I don't want the rest of UK being put in the situation where it has to "do a Merkel" and bail them out of debt when / if Scotland finds it's all going down the pan.

ShyTorque
Someone? Personal grudge? Personal agenda?

The Scottish National Party has been in existence for more than 80 years, has consistently campaigned for Scottish independence and is the largest political party in Scotland in terms of membership. The primary reason it has taken so long to get to this point is that, for decades, it was impossible to break the Labour strongholds in Scotland. There was once a suggestion that money could be saved by weighing votes in Scotland instead of the pointless exercise of counting them. :)

The SNP has been continuously represented at Westminster since Winnie Ewing was elected as MP for Hamilton in 1967. She became only the second nationalist MP, joining the late Gwynfor Evans who had been elected as the first Plaid Cymru (National party of Wales) MP the previous year.
As a teenager I was proud to be one of a group who carried the truly great man shoulder high following the declaration that he had won with 16,179 votes – a number indelibly etched in my memory. I still treasure that moment, almost half a century later.
The movement for independence has always been stronger in Scotland. Although Plaid Cymru is still an active political party, Wales clearly has no desire to be independent; the Welsh are patriotic but not nationalist.
Perhaps because Wales was conquered 171 years before Scotland so the Welsh have had longer to get used to it. ;)


FL

The trouble is that the great Scottish unwashed have turned their backs on Labour and are now listening to Wee-Eck instead. My brother in law, a proud Scot, has already transferred all his financial assets out of Scotland - he has 7 figures+ to ship out and all his local business mates have done this as well. He has a plan to sell his 4 businesses for next-to-nothing just to get out of Dodge and has sold 2 of his 3 properties in Scotland already. He fears that if 'yes' don't win this time, then they will keep chipping away at it until they do.

So what is going to be left in Scotland if it goes to 'yes' - lots of these...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...07_634x563.jpg

The rest of the UK's GDP will instantly rise by ~£120 per head, Scotland's finances will collapse (a great opportunity for the Rest of the UK to invest!), the people of Orkney & Shetland will seek 'self determination' as part of the Rest of the UK (they are staunch 'no' voters) and it will set it up like the Isle of Mann with oil reserves. This will leave the great Scottish unwashed wallowing in their own mess and then they will start to migrate to the Rest of the UK's benefit system as Wee-Eck's money runs out. The Tories will get another term in 2015 as Labour instantly lose 47 seats and the Lib Dems a further 11. Bonnie Scotland's cities becoming economic wastelands, the Highlands being largely unaffected and what has this got to do with Mil Aviation? Well I predict significant unrest in Scotland once the honeymoon of a potential 'yes' vote has won - not quite civil war, but not far off. It might also spark off Northern Ireland again as well. So I suspect that some of our Mil Aviation might be coming home from the great big sandpits of the world to look after our interests for a bit...

...here's hoping I am wrong! :sad:

LJ

FL, I said orchestrated, rather as in the man waving the baton. Did you not see the recent "debate" (debacle) between Alistair Darling and Alex Salmond? The latter seemed to provide no proper answer for any of the questions put to him by either Darling or the "No" voters or "undecided". He either didn't know the answer, or didn't want to give it. All he could do was repeat his non-committal statements time after time.

As I am not of Scottish descent (or Welsh, for that matter) I don't really care whether they stay as part of UK or not. I just don't want to have to bail them out if it all goes pear shaped.

I'm fully aware that the SNP goes back a long way. It might be worth considering why those voting for the Labour party didn't vote for them instead in the past (the SNP). It might have something to do with jobs..

Well as a veteran currently in receipt of a mil pension I will be staying. My pension was accrued through contract with the UK crown. The UK crown, the rUK will be the legal inheritor, will remain responsible for payment, Now however that is to be done, level transfer of funds, agreement transfer to Scottish government - this will be determined during the settlement negotiations - we know not at the moment, of course we don't. Does it frighten me, no, does it concern me, yes, a little but I'm not loosing sleep - I have faith both sides will honour the contract. Many of the other issues raised are already known, we already have arrangements for those veterans living abroad who chose to have their pension paid in the local currency - they do so accepting the tax regime that this entails. At the end of the day, we all have the choice to move or stay, you could not drag me away from here.

Tom

From what I have seen of both sides of said Wall....I suppose the Scots would help pay for the Reconstruction of the Wall. A proper Wall works both ways you know.

Just as Fences make good neighbors so might a really good Wall.