Petition
 

Hi Sunbeam What it needs is a 20ft x 50ft banner going past Parliament with an image of a Viking snapped in two and the message THE AIR CADET FLEET IS BUST !! That will get the media on the case big time. PP

£1,000 for the banner, A time ex pilot, a good lawyer to get him out of jail !!!

If it is flown past Cranwell then we just need the banner.

ARC
 

Just a quick word as to the grounding, haven't read the whole thread but i believe i can shed some light onto why they were grounded. Due to the H-C enquiry all military aircraft powered and non powered were required to have a certificate of airworthiness (ARC). Due to this being completely new to the military it required a huge amount of work to achieve this. The military in their wisdom sub contracted a lot of the work out to a civilian company to do the work, unfortunately money was an issue as usual and everything had to prioritised, hence front line aircraft were top of the pile and gliders were at the bottom. Now the front line kit has all but been sorted the gliders are now coming into view again, moves are afoot to have them all inspected and ARC's issued. Once this has been done then everything should be rosy again......should?!?

I hope you guys fix this mess ASAP, my wife tells me its making me very grumpy every morning after I read the latest F-----up from the bozos who have managed to destroy what was once a well run operation using VOLENTEERS, not a bunch of totally incompetent Blimps! As one who owes everything to the ATC {Military pilot, airline pilot, ag pilot, company owner and corporate pilot along with vintage aircraft owner} I just cant believe the total mess created by this mob. Were I a bit younger and allowed to work in the UK we would come over and do what we did in Canada, that is maintain/fly/fix a fleet of thirty aircraft with only one bent aircraft in 26 years, it aint rocket science folks, just common sense and motivation. There, now I feel much better!

Fixing the mess
 

CLUNK You must stop holding back on your thoughts and start telling it as it is !!

Pobjoy, if I did the Mods would ban me for life! What bothers me most is that the UK has a reputation and a history of well run volunteer organisations and trusts, how come they have been pushed aside with such disastrous results? Time to house clean methinks!

Complete C........F......
 

Clunk we are now the victim of a huge CF that has even affected the simple operation of gliders.
It is the classic 'could not run a sweet shop giving away free sweets' scenario and yet the top end is stuffed full of complete non-doers,and no hopers.
All they are capable of is Yuk Speak as Uncle Roger used to say in Flight.
Well they have finally driven a very long nail into this coffin of what was excellence.The simple truth is in the great scheme of things the Air Cadets are now so small and low profile no one will notice what we have lost.
Sad to say it has become a home for pension top ups and post filling rather than a bastion of leadership by example. The real loss is the VGS set up that kept the basic operation going against an increasing load of bull ****.
Deeply sorry it has come to this and that so many youngsters will miss the experience we had and valued. As there are NO VOTES for anyone in this do not expect any real searching questions as to how and why. Cranwell and Syerston (even before 2 FTS) have been seen to be negligent in their overseeing of this great organisation, and yet the gravy train rolls on 'through' the buffers with no end in sight. I hope the Scouts pick up some of the pieces and expand their operation. As to those paid staff that have let this happen shame on you letting this situation develop.

Well Said
 

I could not agree with you more POBJOY. Beyond a shame.

Whilst gliding is a hot subject at present, it is only a part of the 'greater' ACO. Yes, there are many cadets who have not flown throughout their cadet career, but there are many more areas that little Johnnie/Jane can participate. Some will say that flying is an issue, but that is only with 5AEF, some will question shooting is an issue, but not really.

Was there this much verbal bashing of the CoC in previous reductions in gliding, or any other area, in the past. I doubt it.

Whilst gliding is not happening, many areas/activities are being delivered across the ACO, and long may it continue. The issue is here and it is not an easy win or go away quickly. Going on about 'what if' and complaining about the CoC is not going to help.

Pegasus old chap,


Agreed it is but a part of the whole activity spectrum, but the key clue lies in the first word of the organisation ACO - i.e., "AIR". If they want to major on filling customer's shopping bags in Supermarkets, Sport and cookery then remove the word "AIR" from ACO, give them an apron and a pair of plimsolls.....................


With regard to your comment about previous reductions in Gliding - I can't remember any in my 40 years - if anything they were the halcyon years of new aircraft, new all sorts. The hooo haaa now and the > 500,000 hits on this web site are the result of an extraordinary cock up in dealing with maintaining a relatively simple aircraft fleet, whether it be the RAF or their MoD appointed sub contractors. One thing for sure is that whether it was direct labour or indirect who failed in their duties, the overall Supervisory responsibility for the current farce remains with the RAF Officers at ALL levels who have failed to supervise the Eng function - largely I suspect as the RAF were metal centric and lacking expertise in GRP aircraft.


There's not even a guarantee that the current plan will deliver and yet despite that risk, considerable sums of mine and your taxpayer cash has been spent on building residential facilities at so called "Centres" - some of which have no guaranteed future and one or two with no decent Wx - well at least they can have a Cotswolds short break without any flying - mind you based on the current number of serviceable A/C, ( last heard of as 10 of which 3 have had to go back) , there's a good chance that it could be a long time before too many Cadet backsides get off the ground. £22M spent thus far, and not a lot to show except new buildings here and there.


Never mind, a new incumbent of the office of 2 FTS in 2017 may have a new plan, but meantime the Commandant kept her backside in the air recently wing walking on a Stearman. Probably the sole flying for the ACO 75th Anniversary year !

As a former air cadet I too am saddened by the recent announcements detailing the gliding reductions. However, given the much pointed-out priority of cadet forces and the ever dwindling funding I am glad that the 'pension topper ups' managed to retain as much capability as they have - small mercies perhaps?

We had better watch the QBHL next month.....................

Peggy107 wrote

It is not so much what has happened to ACO 'gliding' - it is more the way that the whole sad affair has been conducted - I think many of us would have more respect for the Brass if they had been upfront about their plans to cut the Gliding Squadrons but instead they carried out their plans under the smokescreen of 'The Pause' and treated the VGS staff with complete disdain - with no respect for their years of service.
Trust is a 2 way thing - who is going to trust the present Brass in the future ?

PEG 107
 

Brave post 107 and I understand your viewpoint ,however whilst the current website and ads still run the ACO are misleading youngsters as to what is really available and quite frankly I do not think it will improve. if a Squadron can survive on its own merits** then that's great, but to give the idea that a meaningful amount of flying and or gliding is available is not being honest, and Cranwell should accept that and stop the hype.
The way that skilled capable volunteers have been treated is unforgivable and those at the top have to accept full responsibility for that.
The same goes for 2FTS Syerston which is just a name with no meaning now.
The whole debacle is shameful, and I do wonder where they will attract adult staff to try and run the organisation.
** Some Squadrons will be able to offer facilities that are attractive in their local area ,this will be down to the skill of a particular CO and the support of the staff, however the problem will be finding those people prepared to serve under a total lacklustre leadership at the top. OF Course for the pension pushers higher up the food chain recruitment will be easy.

My wife tells me I'm still grumpy in the mornings over this mess, so having been married to the same gall for 53 years you guys really have to fix this problem, less you cause me to join the "Alimony Club" of ex pilots who meet every week in the local pub! On Monday {its a long weekend over here} I intend to fly my very old airplane to three airfields all within an hours flying, the intention is to sit and watch the ATC gliding going on at each one of these fields, Maybe I wont be so grumpy after this therapy! This will be taking place all over Canada, in spite of the vast distances that the gliders have to be aero towed to give every ATC unit an equal chance learning to fly, so why in a country which would fit inside one of our lakes cant it be done? How about just firing the dead wood at the top and have the private gliding clubs run it? After all, this worked pretty well during WW2 when most of the EFTS schools were run this way as part of the BCATP.

Clunck ...

Perhaps a few pics might help as I'm sure this thread is still read by a 'wide' audience ... If you know what I mean ;)

Suggested Working Title for your pics ...

'If our Canadian cousins can do it ... Why can't we'

Someone's getting airborne ....
 

Nice bit of sideways work by the OC No 2 Overseas (Gibraltar) Squadron.

RAF CADETS TAKE FLIGHT ON-BOARD ROYAL NAVY HELICOPTER ? Gibraltar Chronicle

I don't suppose there's much gliding on the Rock.

LFH (onetime Sgt ATC.)


............................

firing the dead wood
 

Clunk We thought about firing the dead wood but shooting now in question !!! Have a good outing with the Hornet.


LFH Is that a Leggo Lynx !!!

Someone over on Gliderpilot.net is looking for a two drum winch - anyone know where there might be one available? :O


7700

Twin Drum Winch
 

Syerston has one,but they need a staff cadet to show them how to use it !!!!
Suggest the Air Scouts buy 10 of the old Munster VG (4 for bits) as a start to building themselves up.
Suggest we send a Viking over to China then they can build us 50 by Xmas 2016.

Po'boy, you may not be too far from the truth, have you seen what people are doing with 3D printers these days? How long before someone realises a basic glider printed and assembled in kit-fashion would be quite a practical proposition?

Flug

Air Cadets (ATC & CCF(RAF)) - Number of Cadets
 

This GOV.UK link becomes live tomorrow morning at 9.30 am. It will include ATC and CCF(RAF) cadet strengths (numbers) for 1st April 2016 for anyone who is interested.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...tatistics-2016

Grob G115E/EG AD
 

I wonder if this will effect the Tutors or whether the Grob modification has already been fleet embodied. One would hope it's the later or ACO flying could be even further restricted.


http://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/EASA_A...AD_2016-0091_1

Grob G115E/EG AD MOD
 

Doubt it as it as it was only issued on 16 May 16 with effective date of 31 May 16. They don't work that fast!!

I was quite surprised to see at RIAT this year they will be having an ATC display of gliders through the history of the cadets. Isnt that a bit ironic considering they haven't done any for a good while now?

Why surprised? Gliding used to be an important part of the ATC and deserves a place in any historical display in this 75th anniversary year!

....and some of us even remember the looks on cadets' faces when we sent them solo!!

Sadly all part of the UK Air Cadet history now.

Air Cadets Grounded
 

Ah yes first solo in a Mk111 brick. Rules Don't enter cloud...er dump the cable before you reach it laddie (800ft base with scudding lower cloud down to 500) If it starts snowing ignore it, it will be a passing shower (it wasn't) You can cope with a tad of crosswind can't you, keep wide on finals and don't hit the bloody caravan.

I survived.

Air Cadet gliding will be in the historical section of the static display, will it?

Grob AD
 

Already going through the system at about two a week because it is a relatively simple fix and covered by EASA rules.
Helped by the fact that this is supported by a manufacturer still in business.

Cleared for unlimited spinning
 

I really think it is about time that the Air Cadet Organisation should be considering its position with regard to its name,as under any sort of 'advertising' rules it falls well short of being honest with the public about its 'Aviation input'

Perhaps RAF Cadets would be more honest as judging by the latest AIR CADETS' newsletter the official spin just goes on and on.

Cmt ACO states that 'Less gliding does not mean less flying;indeed there will be more flying opportunities available !!!!

Reg Cmt Wales and West extols the virtues of his 3 solo's in a MK 111 some time back yet fails to mention that this has all been binned.He then states that the 2nd and third parts of the Royal Warrant are the more important ones now.

OK if that is the case then lets really be truthful and say that we are a Cadet organisation that offers lots of opportunities for youngsters with the possibility of some flying experience.

For an organisation that now has very little to do with flying it begs the question why are all the top 'paid' jobs needed.

Flying opportunities do not only fall within the remit of HQAC (through Regions/Wings) to arrange, squadrons can also look for opportunities.

Contrary to the lack of flying that POBJOY is pushing, believe it or not, squadrons in our Wing have already got cadets up this year in Hercules, Pumas, Chinooks, King Airs, Squirrels; through the hard work of squadron staff trying to organise trips for cadets. And don't forget that AEF is still happening, even 5 AEF have started to fly at weekends.

Flying has not stopped in the ACO, just gliding........

My understanding was that Air Cadets actually took control of gliders. If all they wanted to do was be a passenger in an aircraft, Mr O'Leary would oblige for twenty quid.

JUST GLIDING
 

Flying has not stopped 'just Gliding'

Just about summs up the current thinking in the organisation.

Lets be clear Gliding was the Corps USP where a youngster from any average background had the opportunity to be taught to fly on his own and gain a BGA certificate (the only qualification in the gliding world)
All other flying in the organisation is a 'ride' and in most cases other than Tutor no handling.
Not to belittle any flying but lets be clear it is not what the ATC was special for.

All thrown away by staggering incompetence, and a lack of leadership at the top.

Hear hear.

To you maybe. I did three years in the ATC in the 90s and never even set eyes on a glider - had far too much fun going on camps and flying in Chipmunks. Powered flying as a cadet definitely motivated me to aspire to a flying career.

It looks awfully like you are belittling other types of flying available to cadets as well as those (both ACO staff and aircrew) who try to provide it. I would suggest that the cadets who were on board a multi-aircraft assault of Nesscliffe Training Area on Ex Dragon's Claw recently, as one example, would judge that to be as special as flying in a glider.

They won't have a frame of reference to judge otherwise, will they?

Any air experience is a precious thing, and as such reflects well-deserved credit on the adult volunteers and regular units who make it happen.

The worst part of this whole train smash is that in the last couple of years, the ACO ceased to have any confidence in its gliding community's ability to fly safely. This shift in judgement was based on no evidence whatsoever. There is always, always room for improvement and never any scope for complacency, but the VGS community were largely doing it right and an ex-VGS person would be more than welcome on my team. Can't say the same for their parent organisation who have shown only that they can add up several problems and deliver a total catastrophe.

You've not heard of the FAI, and the Silver, Gold & Diamonds then?

Heads up ...

Royal Aeronautical Society | Insight Blog | In the latest AEROSPACE magazine - June 2016

Has anyone had a read yet ?

I haven't read all of this v. Long thread, in fact I've only read from page 125 to this.

I've read that there was some question of the validity of MAA 'Reviews' of which I have only experienced one...It had four findings of which the two I remember were:

1. A Fire Door in the Hangar was a 15 minute door that should be a 45 minute door.

2. The (private organisation) flight coveralls were Dyed a different colour and could not be proven to be fire tested to the same level as RAF green coveralls.

With the very apparent problems and issues that surounded the circumstances of these observations, that the MAA could only register fault with one hangar's corner door, that should not concern an aviation authority, this was absolutely astounding.

BGA FAI Cert
 

Yes the BGA issued them in the UK. The A&B was/is an International Cert as the C and the rest.
Cadets got a proper little book signed by Brab which had some meaning if you then went to a club.

The fai only recognise silver, gold & diamonds. The bga validate those in the uk, and also issue their own a, b & bronze badges. The c badge is no more. The pre-silver badges don't mean anything outside the uk though bronze plus xc endorsement is equivalent to a ppl.