Communication in a MK3
 

Clunk Coff My first ever interface with a Mk3 com system was playing on Kenley Common as a 11 year old and hearing the Cadets being 'pattered' around the base leg/final turn.
It took a while to realise where the voices were coming from, but they were very clear. Of course the 'com' was only one way.
Wonderful system that never failed.

Ha Ha ... Yes the one way (Instructor to Pupil) Gosport Tube ... Waste of time ... Shout and Shout again :ok:

Funny old thing Pobjoy: my uncle in the late 50's built a bungalow in a valley next to Kenley.
In his garden you could hear the instructors chatting in the T 21's quite clearly coming over the top of the ridge. Thanks for the memory!

The acoustics of the Mk3 worked from back to front,as is only right. The only time I saw a gosport tube used was after a student froze on the controls after a cable break,resulting in a severely broken glider,and a furious instructor beating him round the head with the mouthpiece.

Travelling voices
 

Slightly off topic but the phenomenon of travelling voices is something I experienced in a bar in Edinburgh years ago.

I was way down the bar getting in a round and maybe 30' from the other lads round the table. There was background chatter so not totally still but in that EXACT position maybe a foot or 2 each way I could hear everything they said crystal clear - the volume was low but almost 'cleaned-up' somehow.

It was uncanny - needless to say I gently warned them not to discuss the merits of certain nearby ladies - just in case :ok:

WONDERFUL SYSTEM
 

I seem to recall the system was full of common sense and practical flying sense.400 ft 40 knots final turn 200 ft (this was absolutely normal) and had to be adhered to on our field as it was not that long by modern (jet airfields) standards.
Tapping of the wood panel by altimeter to ensure it was not over-reading,and always constant check of attitude (nose below horizon).
And yet it worked, and when you add up the flight times a Cadet 'could' have completed the exercises including cable breaks and be off on his own within a hours dual**. Just the 200 ft final turn bit seems quite marginal by modern standards and yet it was the norm and no one was surprised.

I am of the opinion that a bit of basic glider training would be a great advantage in any modern management course, as it requires decision making with the added constraint of a time limitation,as per the intermediate cable break. Perhaps because it was the 'norm' in those days we did not realise what a good grounding we were getting for later years.

**continuous course

You became used to it though didn't you? Years after Sedburghs and Mk 3s were 'disposed' of, I flew Cyclone AX3 microlights at Halton, where I had been a staff cadet. I found it quite natural to fly identical approaches in the AX3 as I had flown in the gliders, the approach speed being very similar.

Sorry to drag the discussion back into the present but we are now at the end of April and, despite assurances at the town hall meetings that 'everybody will know what they are doing by the end of April at the latest', nothing has been heard.
Yet another date missed! 🙄
What was the quote....'I love deadlines. I love the whistling sound they make as they go flying past!'

No, nothing heard. The only reason this organisation seems to be getting away with such a massive disaster is because the UK isn't air-minded at all, and there are bigger issues to distract people's minds.
2 FTS and HQ Air Cadets seem to put more brainpower into their PR and Twitter strategies than the flying element, which is dying on the operating table in front of us.
The ATC isn't about fostering an air-minded youth any more. It's more about growing the next generation of of pompous, priggish toxic administrators and managers who abuse the concept of flight safety in order to build their little empires. They're all about safety cases and risk, but couldn't explain the difference between air speed and ground speed.

Nostalgia Dept
 

Well CHRIS not much 'dragging' of gliders anywhere so lets remind the cretons what they have lost and give them some ideas about how it should be run 'WHEN' they eventually get their heads out of their A.....s !! (If they ever do)
A couple of old wood machines and a simple winch sounds better than no flying for 3 years on the row !!!! In fact we do not even need a winch as we could A/tow with our 'in house' kit.

More Nostalgia

And in the Mk3 you could get "advice" from the ground on solo launches too - if the instructor's voice was loud enough - which it usually was! :ok:

But I suppose shouting at someone 400ft away isn't too difficult........

There's an immaculate Mk3 which flies with the RAFGSA at Halton.....

Mark 3's back to service
 

CHEV If we 'borrrow' the Halton one, Steal the Southampton one (swop with dead Viking/Vig, mount a night op on the eaglescott hangar (two there) Bingo enough to start a 'School'. I suspect we could get them signed off and going again quicker than the 'recovery program'. In fact i think we could build new ones quicker than the recovery disaster.

What's happened to the Vintage Flight at Hullavington. They've got a full set of SG38, MkIII and T21, all flying last time I looked.

Hullavington Vintage Flight
 

Currently still going strong flying almost every Saturday. They also have a Prefect and Swallow and a private Venture. Plenty of photos on the Facebook page!

Didn't take long for the relevant question from Chris Gains to be put to one side so the "back in my day" discussion could continue. :rolleyes:

Given that the original target to return FGDP forms was end of March, end of April might have been a half-reasonable target to get a feel of who wanted to go where. However, as they only noticed that the return-to address was wrong on 21st of April and new closing date was last week, I think it is reasonable to assume another 'slip to the right' while they count the ballots.

Back In 'Our' Day
 

Some might suggest that the quality of the organisation was far better then; with LEADERSHIP to match.
The Air Cadet Gliding organisation 'was' focused on TRAINING for SOLO which 'was' its USP and big attraction.
The system was geared up to get Cadets their BGA A&B Cert (3 SOLO'S) with a minimum of dual.
We now have a system that gives masses of dual and then 1 solo and no BGA cert. I do not see that as progress or a recruiting incentive.
Sad but true.

For those Members who were promised or expected a 'communication' about 'what everyone will be doing' by the end of April ... Why not 'Ping' OC 2FTS direct ?

I suspect you won't get a reply ... But enough irritating 'Pings' on his mobile might prompt him to act :cool:

https://mobile.twitter.com/oc2fts

Clearly up to the individual to consider PERSEC issues or not ;)

Could that not be seen as "harassment".............actually, seems like a plan..............

Well now the plan of intent is visible on a public forum then yes!

Wander old chap ...

Nothing wrong with a person, who has a direct interest, asking a polite but direct question ... Neither is it wrong for many people to ask a similar polite/direct question.

If you're not 'interested' in receiving direct feedback ... Don't put yourself on Twitter ... Simples !

Tongue, cheek.................

Direct Question to Cmdt2FTS
 

Well he is paid by the public purse therefore should be 'available' to answer questions relating to his 'WORK'.
He is hardly in charge of National security and his 'boss's rely on his 'opinion' so fair game for some direct prodding. An MP asking would be excellent.

Pobjoy et al

I believe that the RAF Halton Trenchard Museum has a Cadet Mk3 and a Slingsby Primary glider. The airfield has 2x Sedburghs (1x Silver and 1x Rasperry Ripple) plus a Tost Winch on a Bedford 3 Tonner. No need for a clandestine operation - the equipment is already there!!! :ok:

Don't forget that Halton is the current 'Home for Sport' for RAF gliding and that the first UK Soaring glider pilot in 1930 was an instructor at Halton (ex RFC aircrew in WWI). They even have a RAFGSA owned Grob 109b (an unmolested Vigilant!) that flies most weekends to the civilian airworthiness standard. :cool:

Best

LJ

It was interesting to take a close look at both a Tutor and a Vigilant as they sat side by side on the static display at the Abingdon airshow yesterday. As an engineer I was horrified at the masses of pin holes in the gel coat on the wing leading edges. Thoughts of the water penetration possibilities and subsequent reduction in the strength of the wings came to mind, no wonder these aircraft have been declared unairworthy. Oh hang on, it was the Tutor I was looking at, no pin holes on the Vigilant.

Lets get going
 

LJ Nearly there to start a 'centre', but careful as 'rolling eyes' is watching us.

That was my first time on Twitter. The man's avatar says 'Keep calm and stay in the Air Cadets.'

Clearly new cadets and staff are queuing round the block to be part of the new ATC world of pretend flying and packing bags in supermarkets.

Packing Bags
 

Just about sums up the current situation.
I was in a supermarket recently and the local Squadron was there in force 'assisting' customers.
A high % of the Cadets were NCO's but none of them had any Gliding badges.
Enough said.

I was talking to an AWO from a nearby Squadron and he told me that he had cadets aged 16, having been on the Squadron for three years had never seen a glider, let alone fly in one (611 VGS stopped flying when they were kicked out of Watton three years ago and with the exception of a couple of months (I think), haven't flown since....

XV275
 

What you are looking at on the leading edge of the Tutor wing is not the Gel coat, it is the paint finish. Small imperfections in the surface paint finish have no structural issues.

Cadet flying
 

To add to Auster Fan's comments. The only cadets on my squadron who've done any flying in the last year are those who won flying scholarships.
Thinking ahead a bit, how long before you'll need a qualification to teach cadets to use Flight Sim? Elfan Safety rules you know......:eek::eek:

I wouldn't class what I saw as small imperfections in a paint surface. I've seen pub dart boards with fewer pin holes than those leading edges had. I certainly wouldn't want them on any composite airframe I owned or flew.

I see the ACO has been awarded The Air League Gold Medal in 'Recognition of 75 Years of Excellence' as part of their 75th anniversary celebrations ...

Presented by HRH The DoE ...

75 - 2 as far as gliding is concerned :(

Commandant ACO Twitter

That is a signal mark of achievement which I endorse - however, there are those who may have contributed less than others - hope presentation was received by a representative cadet, not some further up the tree.

Wander ...

I agree with you. But in respect of your last comment ... Seemingly not.

Commandant ACO Twitter : Gold Medal

Can Grangemouth Squadron staff and cadets sign the medal out on special occasions then?

XV275
 

If you can't tell the difference between a gel coat and an acrylic paint finish I don't think you should be commenting on the condition of composite structures.

You demonstrate an attitude of a lot of people in this still very metalcentric industry. I was once in the same place having completed the composite repair course with BA.

The BA course may have been good enough for minor repairs to the fairings and floorboards of mostly metal aircraft but the techniques and practices of that era simply are not good enough for modern all composite structures.

The fact of the matter is if you want to find the very best use of and repair techniques for cutting edge composite structures you have to look first to the people who are in the gliding industry................. This is a fact that the heavy side of the business has difficulty accepting.

The best example of the misconception prevalent in the industry as a whole can be seen on the PPrune thread about the B787 that was damaged by fire at LHR a year or two back, with suggested repairs that clearly based on knowlage of metal aircraft and no idea of compostite load transfer.

Whether its Gel coat or acrylic paint is immaterial, what I was shown was numerous pin holes through the outer surface that would allow water to penetrate through to the composite beneath. Now allow that trapped water to freeze and just watch what happens to the airframe. I doubt that the Tutor is limited to operations in positive OAT only.
I'm far from being metalcentric, in fact I truly believe that an aircraft isn't an aircraft if you can't poke your finger through the fabric.

VX275 - last sentence - absolutely