Why not ask China to make sure NK doesn't do anything stupid.

I believe they used to have some sway over NK, not so sure how much any more
for small things but I would still think they would stop NK doing anything really stupid -like invade SK.

@ Sam XXV,

That little Cold War tit bit has been proven to be a fallacy (that's the polite way to put it) in Iraq and in Afghanistan. You shoot to kill.

the Iranians and North Koreans are going to attack first
Christmas day

500N:
"North Korea has fired off two "new" longer range missiles."

Is that the first sign of the much - rumoured "Lon Dong weapon?"

JD, I'm sure it will be North Korea first, but Iran? What about the BLUs?

Think Iranians first, SAM? Do you think they cave the capability ready yet?

BIiggle said:
"that your recent posts..... have really dragged PPRuNe down to a shadow of its former self"
Really? Didn't think that was possible. Mosts of the posts on this forum are from out of date retirees burying their heads in the sand about current threats, who just want to talk about high jinks, daft stunts and burning pianos
Anyway all we are doing is pointing out a Very Serious Threat to the Western World

In a very serious and highly analytical fashion.

@ Jamesdevice

North Korea is not going to start any war.

Iran will not start open warfare; they already are at war via terrorism, Cyber Warfare, political influence and their support of the bad people in other countries. Iran know that at some stage some country will get very miffed with what they are already doing and will carry out an attack on Iran. Iran then have the right to commence open warfare on that nation and whom so ever they decide supported the country that carried out that initial attack.

I really disagree
the timing for both is now. There is a window of opportunity for both countries if they attack BEFORE Israel gets any bunker busters

Jamesdevice,

I'm an out of date retiree with my head partially buried in the sand about current threats. I just want to talk about high jinks and daft stunts and I have certainly burned pianos. Sorry if I've dragged you all down.

Your postulations were quite amusing, though.

Courtney

And "window of opportunity". Where have I heard that before?

Two can play at that game (and from the reported explosions of late, already are).

Israel forms corps for strategic strikes

TEL AVIV, Israel, Dec. 19 (UPI) -- Amid deepening tension between Iran and its principal adversaries -- the United States and Israel -- the Jewish state has formed a Special Forces command to carry out strategic strikes deep inside hostile territory. The formation of the new command indicates that Israel's military envisages long-range, largely clandestine and multi-arm operations will have a much higher priority than the conventional operations that have been the main focus of military activity for decades.

Israeli defense officials say the elite new corps' area of operations includes the "third circle," a term that usually encompasses the Persian Gulf and the Horn of Africa. Indeed, the new formation, officially known in Hebrew as the Depth Corps, has been popularly dubbed the "Iran Command" so ingrained has the Islamic Republic become in the national psyche as the main existential threat to the Jewish state because of its alleged quest for nuclear weapons.

The Depth Corps is the equivalent of the U.S. Special Operations Command that oversaw the clandestine operation that led to the assassination of Osama bin Laden in May and will have the authority to initiate special operations. It's the brainchild of the recently appointed chief of the general staff, Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz and Maj. Gen. Gadi Eizenkot, until recently head of the Northern Command along the border with Lebanon. Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Israel's most decorated soldier and a legendary Special Forces leader, green-lighted the project.

The corps will integrate the Israeli military's various special units such as the elite Sayeret Matkal of Military Intelligence, the air force's Shaldaq and the navy's Flotilla 13, coordinating their operations and their unique specialties to an unprecedented degree. Sayeret Matkal was commanded by Barak in the 1970s. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, then an army captain, was one of his officers. They both participated in the May 9, 1972, storming of a hijacked Boeing 707 of Sabena Belgian Airlines at Lod Airport outside Tel Aviv -- now Ben Gurion International -- held by Black September Palestinian militants to free the 100 hostages aboard the jet.

The new corps will be commanded by Maj. Gen. Shai Avitai, a former Sayeret Matkal chief and a close associate of Barak.

Israel's military objectives are primarily focused on Iran at this time, with threats to unleash pre-emptive strikes, primarily using fighter-bombers and ballistic missiles, against the Islamic Republic's nuclear infrastructure. But it's also concerned with clandestine arms shipments, mainly from Iran, funneled through the Red Sea into Egypt via Sudan. At least two long-range strikes were reportedly carried out in January 2010 against arms convoys moving north through the Sudanese desert.

But the formation of the new command follows major gains by Islamist radicals in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya amid the Arab Spring pro-democracy uprisings that began in January. The seismic shifts in the Arab world's geopolitical landscape, with a savage confrontation under way in Syria between the minority Alawite regime of President Bashar Assad and its opponents that could produce another Islamist-dominated power, have radically altered Israel's security perspective. One consequence could be the collapse of Israel's landmark 1979 peace treaty with Israel, lynchpin of its political, economic and defense policies for 30 years.

"The establishment of the new corps has been under consideration for the past decade … but was repeatedly pushed back due to more pressing issues," The Jerusalem Post observed. "What has changed is the nature of the threat that Israel faces, which requires elite units to operate far from Israel and deep within enemy territory."

The Post's military correspondent, Yaakov Katz, said that, Iran aside, likely targets for the Depth Corps is Lebanon and Syria. The Iranian-backed Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria's military between them have tens of thousands of missiles aimed at Israel. A prime target would be the Bekaa Valley in northwestern Lebanon, Hezbollah's heartland where it has deployed missiles capable of hitting just about anywhere in Israel.

In the 2006 war between Hezbollah and the Jewish state, the Israeli air force knocked out most of the medium-range missiles Hezbollah had in the Bekaa within the first 36 hours of combat. In the next conflict, which many in the region believe is inevitable, knocking out the more advanced missile Hezbollah now has will mean boots on the ground.

If you were to create a Special Forces Command to undertake a specific, clandestine (by nature) task behind the lines of a specific country, would you announce it to the world?

Anyway, good spot, Orac. So what's your take on what happens next?

Cynically?

Smuggle a warhead into Iran (using non-western fissile material) and plant it near one of their main development site and set it off at a time when it can be made to look like an Iranian accident.

No missiles fired so no-one can conclusively point the finger elsewhere. Any claims will look like an excuse for incompetence.

Destruction of a good part of the Iranian programme sites and engineers.

Maximum internal anger and unrest at the government at the loss of life, hopefully leading to regime change.

And for any other neighbour tempted to develop their own weapons (as several are doing in response to Iran), a sobering lesson in the consequences of either failure.......or success.

But then, I'm a cynic. :cool:

only flaw in that would be obtaining non-western fissile material
Not so easy now as it would have been a few years ago when the USSR was disintegrating

The US will have some hidden away somewhere they can provide,
as they usually do when they want to incriminate someone !

Been lots of it available for the last 20-30 years, if you knew where to look. I'm sure more than one nation took the opportunity to put some in a safe place - swapping with their own if necessary to make the sums add up. :hmm:

I have only had time to speed-read this thread, but it seems that there is a clear & present danger that Israel plans to attack North Korea, exploiting the turmoil created by the demise of the Dear Leader.

I intend to pen a billet-doux to the Telegraph forthwith.

Shocking.

HB

You know, HB's got a point there. We worked all that out and it never occurred to us to tell anyone!

I thought this is where the Times, Telegraph and Gruaniad got all their military news? Thats why their reporting is so accurate