Harrier Pilot attacks Prime Minister on cuts
 

Lt Cdr Kris Ward, 37, questioned Mr Cameron as the Prime Minister prepared to deliver the conclusions of the Strategic Defence and Security Review, in which the Navy is expected to fare worst.
Lt Cdr Ward, whose father Cdr Nigel "Sharkey" Ward led attacks during the Falklands conflict, said: "I am a Harrier pilot and I have flown 140-odd missions in Afghanistan, and I am now potentially facing unemployment. How am I supposed to feel about that, please, sir?"

"I AM NOW POTENTIALLY FACING UNEMPLOYMENT !!"

Tough **** Lt Cdr and welcome to the real world

Just goes to show, never take it for granted.

What the difference between a Harrier and its pilot?

Coat, hat etc. :E

May I respectfully suggest that anyone who has flown '140 odd missions in Afghanistan' knows quite a bit about the 'real' world.

Fair question. Phrased in a argumentative fashion.

A recording of the question and some of the answer from DC

from ROGERK, age 69, location - France

Hmmm....

In which case, he'd also know that as a Lt Cdr he has options in the RN that don't involve flying. That's the bittersweet with regards to promotion. Of course it's a shame that he will no longer be flying the Harrier, but something had to go and IMO it could have been worse.

From the BBC website

As one door closes.......;)

On a side note...

Always the first thing they say, isn't it .......:E

May I respectfully suggest that someone who has flown 140 missions in 'stan knows a lot about flying missions in 'stan.

No one, harrier pilot or not, has a divine right to employment. And no, of course I wouldn't like to be in his position - but we all are, aren't we.

Indeed, no sympathy for those who may have to join the rest of us in the real world.

Am I missing something here? Although I'm now retired I didn't join the RAF as an entry to the commercial jobs market. What price the Military Covenant and Terms of Service? I joined to serve my Country knowing that it would take out a large chunk of my life. As it happened, it took out a lot more than expected but I wasn't reviewing the jobs market for most of my time.

I'm with the Lt Cdr and he's earned the right to pose that question. A Strategic Defence Review that bins the Joint CAS asset when we are still on a CAS centric operation is a cost cutting exercise. Lets just call it what it is.

The name Ward? Must be Sharkey Wards son...he from the Falklands War who was known for his plain no nonsense talking.

Like father like son.

I'd be more impressed if he flew up the Thames at low level then flew under Tower Bridge.

FFS he should just man up. He might not have a harrier to fly shortly, but I doubt that at 37 he will be in line for redundancy from the RN.

Loads of people in a far worse situation than him.

I find it slightly cringeworthy that a serving officer should make such a public whinge.

I for one applaud Mental's moral courage for asking a direct question to the chief policy maker of our country - well done mate and good for you. Many would have chosen to stay quiet.

Those who believe that the good Lt Cdr's question was self-centred are clearly missing the point - he was talking in general terms and asking on behalf of all who are faced with that position and his point in highlighting his experience in Afghanistan was likely to add some relevance to the decision concerning Harrier in particular; believe it or not there is more than one Harrier pilot in the UK Armed Forces :O

Nobody has a 'right' to employment but everybody has a right to care and everybody has a right to ask direct questions. Cameron wasn't attacked, contrary to the media sensationalist headline, he was asked a pertinent question and delivered an answer.

well the job market will be tight with him joining nimrod pilots competing to join the airlines. Just wonder what all those Tac navs and back cabin crews on the nimrod will do in civvy street!

If they are going to ditch the Harriers, what's going to end up with the crews?

6f1
 

Well Done Lt Cdr Ward it's a shame you are not a Admiral.
Rogerk sounds like just another septic Ex crab who should be ignored!

Wot a whinger
 

another FJ mate who thinks he is above everyone else and shouldnt be made redundant................tell that to the 280 engineers who were on yearly rollover contracts, had based mortgages on it and were told 3 months ago that they no longer had a job.

Suck it up boys and girls its no different from civvy street and the sooner we realise we arent different the easier life will be to accept.:\

How is he supposed to feel about it?

Pragmatic. Be thankful he's not being given his P45 today. As others have said, he might not be flying Harriers for much longer, but hey, all things must come to an end. He either flies something else, gets a ground tour or several or gets out.

He now has to face a decision as to what he is going to do with the rest of his life. Just like many of the rest of us have, before and again in the future.

Wasn't the PMs answer more revealing? He's obviously been well briefed if he thinks Typhoon is currently out in Stan

This has echoes of the defence cuts of the Wilson government in the late 60's and early 70's. Anyone that remembers that might also recall the predictions that the British Armed Forces would never recover from the sweeping cuts of overseas bases, programs and personnel.

Apparently we survived and I'm pretty sure that will be the case this time.

"Hi, I used to be a Harrier pilot..."

A shame to see the fleet go however, no sympathy for Lt Cdr Ward. A rather arrogant statement from somebody who clearly fails to understand that he isn't the only person putting himself in harms way. :ugh:

What's the difference between God and an RN Harrier pilot ?
God doesn't think he's an RN Harrier pilot.

Another quality quote from the BBC

Mr Cameron thanked him for "everything" he had done for his country, but said there had been long discussions about the review and the military advice was that "it was right to keep the Typhoon as the principal ground attack aircraft, working in Afghanistan at the moment, and right to retire the Harrier".

RogerK
 

I dont normally get worked up by people ....But boy you are one of lifes Loosers- I dont know Sharkeys son all my Harrier mates say he's a good blole. What he has got that you dont is Balls- sitting in your chair slagging off in my view one of the UKs Heros is not on. This man has flown 140 missions any chance you can tell us your combat history?? sitting in a chair writing crap? It takes guts to tell the PM what you think and he did- The PM who thinks the Typhoon is on active duty - right. Get back in your "real world" Roger K and give the poor bugger a break- If id just been told id lost my dream id be pissed off too.

But it was all supposed to be so better if people voted one way in May or that was the gist of what people were saying on here.................

Says someone who gives their Location as a death camp where hundreds of thousands were put to death....................

Location wasn't funny to an old neighbour i took with me 20 years ago who still had the reminder coded on her arm but she sometimes claimed she wasn't the lucky one.

I'm totally with Lt Cdr Ward.

Please see 'youtube' the 2 Johns re Admirals v surface fleet numbers...

If anyone who knows me reads this, they'll know I am not a pilot, but a fan of, and experienced working with, the aircraft.

That being said, can't see a great loss in the Sidewinder only GR9, compared to FA2 or as I keep whinging, 2+, both with AMRAAM.

I suppose they'll argue the Appache is nearly as capable or the ships ( what God-Awful names ! ) can carry someone elses's air wing.

The Earth is slightly off axis at the moment as Churchill, Drake and Nelson are all spinning in their graves ( C' Douglas Adams ).

One can only hope the rumours of vaguely quickly operational ( yes I know what's involved and my eyebrows are just above the stratosphere too ) FA2's or even GR9's are true.

Also I note Illustrious is notable by her absence of being mentioned, and one ditty on the news reckoned the Queen Elizabeth would be 'sold or mothballed' once POW comes along.

If we're going for just 40F-35C's, Christ knows what the unit price works out at, and what about the money spent on the development of the 'B' ? I rather expect someone else will benefit from that.

If 'Ark Royal' is to be scrapped - not sold mind you - tomorrow, I'll offer £5.00, I reckon I can see a market for her...

It's been a common thread in history since a moment after the Wright Brothers that the FAA gets shafted, right up to the point they're desperately needed; and not just by the RAF, Admirals who value air power above their own careers are rarer than hens' teeth; what was I saying about the '2 John's' sketch ?!

RogerK- I'm all ears- please do tell us where you have served "operationally"

http://www.audionervosa.com/Smileys/...rinking_be.gif

Is this what they call a dick-measuring contest on the interwebs?

The Airlines are not interested in ex mil aviators at the moment either. They prefer young cadets through CTC and the like. I am afraid those who expect to fall into civil flying are in for a nasty shock .

Good luck to all affected.

No. All Harriers are being retired.

It appears one of the participants is using someone else's dick though. Is that even allowed?:rolleyes:

WELL SAID, SCRUFFY FANNY

I read his name as Ro gerk.:sad:

The UK is screwed
 

The trouble is the UK is totally screwed- 20 years ago say 1990 we had half an air force- 30 years ago 1980 we had bloody hundreds of Jags, Buccs, Hunters, Ltgs, F4s and a superb support force with C130,s Choppers galore and a maritime fleet that was second to non. Now we have bugger all having just had a decade 1996-2006 of boom. So why cant we now afford an armed easy because we have a country where half the people dont work- case in example woman opposite me - east european, been here 5 years never worked costs at best guess £2500 a month in benefits inc housing. So that means a person earning £2000 a month pays £400 tax so it takes 6 people to support 1 free loader- THATS WHY WE CANT AFFORD AN ARMED FORCES!! . Thats why i take my hat off to Lt Cdr Ward who had the balls to speak up to the PM. The guy who thinks the Typhoon is in Afghanistan. The PM was the man who said we had too many MPs - so has he cut any- NO. Frankly we need to have a military Coup and people like Son Of Sharky get my vote!!

Tough times ahead for the services across the board. Sad to see the Harrier go (and indeed the cuts as a whole), but what choice was/is there?

I dont think the comment by Lt Cdr Ward was ideal - many about to feel the effects of cuts in most areas. Simply put (and yes it is being said plenty) we are broke due to years and years of overspend, and genius moves like Gordon Clown selling of our gold reserves when gold was at it's lowest price for 1000 yrs. Its not Cameron/Coalitions fault...

I'm Shocked my wife asked Four good questions today " why is HMS Ark royal being scrapped when HMS Illustrious is older? Why scrap Harriers they can be used onboard ship and on land,and they only have one engine surely they are cheaper to operate than Tornado ? Have they Scrapped HMS Ark Royal Early to keep the enable the new (operational) carrier to be renamed and keep the famous Name instead of POW ,and finally why don't all the ex forces people get together to form a political party, to look after UK Defence interests and get rid of millions of benefit cheats and immigrants bleeding the country dry and run the country in a way to make Britain "Great" Again ?

I gave her my answers but anyone care to Expand ?

Having been made redundant in 1996, 2003 AND 2010 I can tell Lt Cdr Ward two things:

1) Aviation is an insecure industry in which to work and
2) You get on with it and get a new job (as has happened each time).

Maybe you take a pay hit, maybe you do a job you don't like much, maybe you have to move (or all 3) but you knuckle down, put yourself out there and get a job. I'm now on a decent tax free salary in the Middle East but first had to endure 14 "lean" years after leaving the RAF.

Still, I'm quite good at filling in UB40s, RP1, RP2, mortgage payment protection claim forms etc. etc. etc.

Harrier Gone Military coup
 

I'm with the guy who said time for a coup. It seems to me that all these amateur politicians only ever screw up. Maybe democracy doesn't work at the moment? So far all I see is a bunch of self important politicos still troughing the parliamentary expenses and taking home £60k p.a.plus a nice fat pension.

An we still give overseas aid to India so they can have a space programme!

Outside perspective alert.

At risk of bigging myself up, I too do rather specialised work in an industry which is incredibly selective and difficult to get into, although I am a comparatively small operator in that field. People (not me) who have "deployed" with cameras on their shoulders, doing good and necessary work in unpleasant places and come back with bits of shrapnel in them, are now making wedding videos for a living. Not intending to get at anyone here, but hard-won and much loved careers are being shredded in all sectors. I got paid to do creative work today; today was a good day in those terms. May there be many more like it for everyone. Commiserations to the clobbered, nonetheless.

On a more constructive note, what happens to all these harriers, jaguars, sea harriers, and even Nimrods and the like that are taken out of sevice? Are the best ones put into some sort of survivable storage state so that they could, in extremis, be brought back into service to serve some sort of emergency? Obviously there's the issue of training crews, but the thought remains.

P