Would it be fair to state that the PM probably spoke first (it's the usual way)and span some line about the cuts being great and that they would result in world class relevant forces? If so it is only fair for someone to explain who they are and why it might seem odd for someone with such relevant skills to be facing such an uncertain future. He did not just shout it out, unbidden in the street now did he?

While I am aware of the ROE that states its fair to have a go at any Harrier driver (who has to be arrogant because some stacker at IOT said they were and it kind of stuck) I see nothing arrogant in anything he said. It is absolutely SOP in military circles to open with your name, rank, role and relevant experinece in any forum. In one that COIN or Herrick has just been discussed then what the f**k do you expect?

Before I forget, the gag about God not thinking he was a Harrier pilot doesn't actually work does it? Do you mean that the stovie thinks he's God? If so, re-write your joke. Good SOP banter by the way, works right up until the point you're exposed to wit.

Maybe, just maybe, this is the thin end of the wedge; maybe this officer took the SHAR retirement on the chin, maybe he moved his family across the country, maybe he re-roled to mud - just as the jags were being sent to AD. Maybe he worked hard through his second OCU. Maybe he took a single RN FW squadron on the chin. Maybe he has spent most Mondays for the last few years having to read another Torpy-gram about how great and relevant Typhoon is when he never saw it on ops, about how the FAA was irrelevant. Maybe he was in KAF when all the building was going on to make the GR4 fit in it. Maybe, just maybe he has had enough and quite rightly what came out of his mouth was impassioned and family-centric. He never said he was special, he never said he was scared or unaware of the real world.

And let's get one thing absolutely straight. He never said, meant or implied that no-one else was upset, in danger or not pulling their weight.

I for one will stand by this officer who will sadly, in all probability, never fly in the military again and certainly not off an RN deck. About time someone had the balls to stand up for themselves before they had a General's pay and pension. BZ.

I'm absolutely on the side of this harrier pilot. At no point should he, and indeed all of the other members of the forces be subject to such a stupid situation, especially when benefit cheats and the rest of that lot continue to scrounge off the state. This man hasn't refused to go to war or anything that serious, merely stated an objection to being dicked around by dave.


I had higher hopes for *Liam* Fox. Thought he might have fought a harder fight.

140
 

140, is that all? ;)

Support
 

Good to see some support for a gutsy RN pilot. The SHARs i believe are mostly stored at RAF Shawbury. The Indians wanted to buy them but then backed out- perhaps as they were able to fire AMMRAM the US blocked the deal. Some of the SHARs were only a few years old and actually pretty good machines. I think a lot of people miss the point- sure its a tough world outside but this guy has just been kicked in the teeth after giving his all. I guess hes 40+ so getting a job in the airlines will be a non starter or slim. It begs belief that this country Brown, labour , Blair DC who ever have pissed away our taxes. How many people thought Nimrod MR4 was a good idea- rebuilding a Comet- Holy SH1T we all knew it would be a sure way to loose Billions. If BAE think the MR4 is great lets see if they use their own money complete the programme and find a buyer for them.
Its time we all stopped being very British and polite and say actually NO- ask the questions WHY has the budget for benefits become the biggest slice ofthe cake. Funny as well how the person who started this thread when asked what he'd ever done said ...lots and now seems to have gone very quite. Myself i raise a glass to Lt Cdr Ward and wish him all the best

A lot of bubbles are going to be burst.

Nobody has mentioned that the leaping JSF has been canned...FAA will have supersonic kites lobbed off the deck and trapping the wire again.. When they get them..

Who is Ian Fox??:E

Take your chance when you get it!
 

I fully agree with Sharky piping up - when else would he get a chance to ask such a pointed question to the only man who has the full answers. Several of you believe it is a self serving question but I took at as a question asked on behalf of all the people in his position be they pilots, engineers etc tied into the Harrier world. He had to explain what he did to prove credibility and then question the governments commitment to someone who had shown such commitment back to his country - Don't see how any of you can take issue with this - you would all have done the same if you were in his position... if you had had the balls.

Don't deny the guy the right to ask the question, we are a democratic society after all, but he is not the first and he wont be the last.

For those vehemently defending him, his parentage or heroism counts for nothing, deal with it, it is just numbers.

For those vilifying him, he has his rights as we all do.

Like many of us who have gone before him, and those who will go after him, time to suck it up, grow a pair and get on with it, trust me, time spent whining can be better spent.

As for my own operational record, yes I have one, and no, it has sod all to do with anyone else, and that is why it is MY operational record :)

A.R. I know, good innit.

Is this the best some of you can do?
 

I guess the problem with written communication is you cannot always tell when people are being ironic. I have to give some people the benefit of the doubt based on some of the postings to this topic.

For those who think why should Kris Ward's redundancy be any different from theirs, perhaps you should cast your mind back to the first things that came into your mind when you had your news, and see if they are not similar? Did you think of others or just yourself?

Yes it's not the end of the world when an individual loses their job - though it may feel like it to that individual at the time - but there's no necessity to make ridiculous comments just because you can. Everyone has a right to state an opinion, so this was mine in response.

AR

Bugger, slip of the tongue:ugh:. Still, thats not the point.

Mr Ward gets my vote. Its nice to see sombody speaking their mind in public rather than acting like a sheep and towing the line

I’m sorry but where does it, or did he, say he has lost his job. He hasn’t. He is an officer in the RN and as such can be gainfully employed in numerous posts. Are they about to ditch all the leaping heap operators overnight with Dave on the horizon, ok the distant horizon but it is coming, no. So let’s wait and see what happens. However, as for a serving officer putting such a stupid and ridiculous question to the PM, well maybe if they are looking for chaps to chop I think his antics will proably have landed his name on some admirals list, if it wasn’t before.

Please note before people get on their high horses and say how dare I, I am not questioning his bravery, kahoonas, masculinity or ability as a pilot in any way with my comments.

5000 to go from the RN, so those Pilots will we part of that equation, they will almost certainly not be re-employed IMHO. Well done Sharkey Junior for speaking up and if anyone is still under the illusion that JCA will be operated by the FAA after today, you are just as naive as some of the dark blue hierachy.

JCA you say?

wtf.

Lt Cdr Ward still has a job.. Those at Woodford will not tomorrow.

Good on yer, Mental! I think you were right to pipe up as you did.

I feel for the FAA; they've taken a huge hit, as have the kipper fleet too.

I think we may live to rue some of these decisions in times to come.

Bliar and Broone set the backdrop; cuts will have to come across the board if we wish to continue to trade successfully as a nation. Lets hope we recover and those facing redundancy won't be searching for long.

Lt Cmdr Ward at least stuck up for his job, nice one and respect. His dad was legend as his book made me think about joining the RAF , failed eyesight resigned to engineer 21 years . If you get a chance to read Dave Wards battles against the Argies its a must.

I just feel everyone in the Forces is getting angry with each other . We are one and we are forgetting that.

Must have been a rather rubbish, if a book about the Royal Navy made you want to join the RAF :rolleyes:

Some here have said about cutting benefit scroungers or other less worthy causes instead of the military. Well read the papers, they are doing just that. I realised many years ago that I was just a number, not a person in the RAF. Hundreds of us have well over 3years service in NI/Kosovo/Iraq/Stan where we faced being shot at every day. 140 missions is not a monopoly. When the politicians need you for photos, you are a hero. The rest of the time you are an expensive pain in the butt. Service voter equal a couple of hundred thousand, people on benefits equal millions. They need the votes, just accept the fact (right or wrong) because it isn't going to change. Good luck in the job hunting, you and the other 500,000 public sector workers, plus the thousands of BAE workers, plus the thousands of contractors are going to need it.
PS. If anyone says you should have voted Labour, they would have kept borrowing and in 5 years this would look like a picnic in comparison.

Not everybody on benefits is a "scrounger". There are plenty of people out there who are suicidally desperate for a job.

... time to wrap this up ??
 

.... before "scruffy fanny" has a heart attack ?
I have no problem with the guy and his excellent service record.
My problem is his arrogance "I am going to be unemployed"
So are the guys who service his Harrier, the clerk in the office who makes sure his pay and allowances are up to date, the bowser driver, the barman in the officers mess et al.
They also have mortgages, wives and children to feed !!

Having only seen his comment on BBC news I think the mistake was the "I'm" bit. If he had posed the question more in a "I am a Lt Cdr in the RN and have many junior officers and ratings who are asking me about their futures, what would you suggest I tell them Prime Minister?",I would have had a great deal more sympathy with him. I felt his question came across as rather immature and seemed to show self interest in Ward, Harrier pilot rather than Lt Cdr Ward, RN officer.

Rogerk I have lost my job on medical grounds and would love to get back to work yes there are those who think they have a devine right to benefit and should be sought out and dealt with appropriately.But the bottom line to all this is it was the bankers who got this country in this financial mess and are they being punished NO. They still keep their high salaries and very nice bonuses thankyou and I believe that they should be the ones to be targeted and made to pay. The men and women of are armed forces who put their lives on the line in Stan everyday should be the ones with those sort of salaries not bankers who have been able to walk away from this scot free.Once again military personell and the defence of our country has been shafted thanks to the morons in the city.

Footes

Flap62
 

Likewise. I think he spoke from the heart, and if, as you say, he's been slightly more inclusive in his comment I don't think he'd have raise the ire of some here.

Having said that I'm sure the Lt Cdr knows that it's a very cold world out here in civvy aviation land ( another player seems to have gone down the tubes overnight) and the chances of him and others getting any job associated with aviation with sensible T&Cs in the near future seems slim...which is probably what drove his comment.

All I can really add is good luck to everyone effected by these cuts over the next few months/years.

Footster:

Hear hear. Illegal tax evasion by the wealthy costs the Treasury 15 times more than benefit fraud. Legal tax avoidance costs even more. Let's call these cuts what they are - ideologically driven - for the benefit and at the behest of chief executives of global corporations and banks.

Blimey, at the rate we are going, a group of private collectors will have a better capability than us!

Keep sending those donations to Dr P and keep that Vulcan flying.

Hows He Suppose To Feel?
 

Well he should be feeling quite smug really. He can take a redundancy package, won't have to pay back his FRI (£50k) and is beyond his IPP so will take that too. With his experience he should have his licences so potentially walking into a job with a comparative salary.....

or stay in for peanuts, with a two year pay freeze, stag on in the "Stran, work long hours for the idiots at Whitehall who created the mess in his lovely multi-million pound financed PJHQ.......

I totally understand the sentiment expressed by Lt Cdr Ward, let's face it, ultimately these cuts affect individuals and in the heat of the moment you can't really blame him for speaking in the first person. Maybe he was surprised these swngeing cuts have come from a Conservative PM. Well Conservative in name at least. Labour were always too afraid of cutting UK AF this deeply, too much baggage in this area. Perhaps we should re-evaluate Cameron as some kind of socialist in Tory drag. All I know is that 14billion has been spent on Iraq Afghan since 2001. We could not afford to deploy to Afghan in 2006 but military chiefs of staff willingly committed an over-stretched military to fight a war on two fronts and now we are broke. All too predictable and sadly The conservative party voted for uk involvement in Iraq in 2003 and Helmand deployment in 2006.

Time to sling out the old guard at the top of the MoD they have been responsible for some shocking decision making in recent years.

My sympathies to those about to lose their jobs. Don't listen to some on this thread your training and expertise will be welcomed in civvy street.

Anyone know what will happen to the Harriers now - as in, when will they be grounded and cease flying? I guess that the tap will be turned off quite quickly to save cash...

I agree with Nigegilb - skills will be highly valued, self-discipline etc - very positive in civvi street! Good luck to all those affected.

Its good to see that the "How do you know someone's a Harrier pilot? - he'll tell you" joke is as relevant today as it ever was. Obviously it will soon has to read 'ex-harrier pilot'.

What a plonker

I notice that both BA and Virgin are recruiting at the moment - HM Forces loss is BA/Virgin's gain etc...

They were recruiting. Both were so over-subscribed they took down the online application forms after a couple of days. And they were only accepting applicants already type-rated with minimum of 500 hours on type.

Seconded.

Just sticking to pilot job isues, I hate to be the gloom in the room (especially as an ex crab) but no matter what your personal qualities, no matter how self disciplined you are, the now-closed recruiting for BA and Virgin was for those with a type rating and X hundred hours on type. BA certainly will not fast track somebody through the selection process just because they are ex-forces I'm afraid, you're stucking going through the same selection mill as the zero to hero wonders.

Granted but a good portent?

This thread is now officially getting on my wires!

Who says that just because you are a Harrier pilot, a Harrier techy or a Harrier anything else you are now redundant!

Ward, as a Royal Navy lieutenant commander, has reached the pinnacle of his time in an RN cockpit and will, no doubt, be destined for many years as a staff officer in the RN (either flying related or not) where his skills and experience will be put to good use. He is no more likely to be made redundant than the next guy and, if he is as good as he clearly thinks he is, less likely than some others to be cast aside. Alternatively, if he doesn't fancy that option, which was on the cards anyway at his time of career point, he can resign!

The truth, and I don't know him, is that he has displayed all the tendencies of a pompous, self-opinionated, self-enhancing and selfish ass (comes with the Harrier turf, perhaps) who should have known better but to keep his own council in the environment he found himself in. As was stated previously by another poster - had he spoken on behalf of his troops then it might have been different! Prat who clearly likes the sound of his own voice and, as such and all-in-all, unworthy of holding a commission!

Sadly, like father, like son!

Now that feels better.

Carry on, everybody!

Foldie:p

"Folding Wings" at last !!
 

This was my sentiment when I started the thread !!
But I would keep your head down because the nutters will come out of the bunkers in droves now !!
Especially one who is too old to know what a Harrier looks like and lives in Auswitz (If his profile is to be believed)
:ok::ok:

Foldingwings - couldn't have put it better myself.

Lets face it, it doesn't really matter what the pro's and con's are. This bloke has set an all time record on so many levels..........

"Good afternoon Prime Minister, I'm a Harrier Pilot................"

You couldn't make it up.:D