Spoke to someone who was at CAS's ISK brief, apparently he wants people gone ASAP

Jay
 

Negative. Understand that ACOS Man are rushing to put some briefs together but not expecting to hear anything for the next week or so. The various DINs are still the best source of what is likely to be offered, the timings are still tbd.

Gentlemen,

I have already put this on 2 SDSR related threads so far.....


The decision process is simple....

The medium level boys (Wg Cdr and Sqn Ldr) write/research lots of papers on options, e.g. not introducing MRA4, with cost and capability implications.

The big boys (3/4* and politicians) sit in a room and decide which options to impliment - BUT THEY DON'T TELL ANYONE DOWN THE CHAIN WHAT THOSE DECISIONS ARE, IN CASE IT LEAKS BEFORE THE MINISTER/PM GETS TO ANNOUNCE IT TO PARLIAMENT/THE MEDIA.

About 30 minutes before the briefing by the Minister/PM the players in the system (e.g. Stn Cdr ISK, RAF Manning) open their sealed envelopes and read the contents, before saying.."oh my god".

So all the people who sort out the detail, RAF Manning, 55 Sqn, Stn Cdrs, Sqn Cdrs have no time to do any prior preparation, and will spend the next 2 months playing catch up.....

Ask all the questions you want, just don't expect any solid answers for quite a while yet, they have not been worked out so far!!



This goes equally well for redundancy decisions regarding branches/trades/numbers required. There is no stitch up on redundancy terms, it depends on which pension scheme you are on AFPS 05 or 75 means you are on AFRS (RS = redundancy scheme) 06 or 10 respectively I believe. The details of these schemes are readily available on the Defence intranet, there is no conspiracy here in terms of money, you will be able to work out exactly what you are likely to get...



All of the above is my personal opinion, and I don't work in a Gp HQ or MOD!

Comet derivatives . . .
 

Not really had a lot of luck have they,

Original with square windows involved in very high profile crashes, then effectively pipped at the post by the 707 while they were sorting that out.

Nimrod MR 1 & 2 - not too bad but were severely tested on Ops, being at max ZFW very quickly.

Nimrod AEW - oops, didn't work.

Nimrod 2000 oh err, Nimrod MR4 - isn't that overbudget and still yet another compromise with this particular airframe?

I'm sad to see any capability being lost, but that particular aircraft always seemed a bit iffy to me. Yet another example of a political shuttle-cock.

Sorry for those who've put their all into the project though.

very upset to see kinloss go

my uncle was bassed there and killed in a crash in sep 1940

:{:{:{

Quote by heathhurnWhat future procurement ? What fecking future ??
Be lucky
David

Tucumseh.
 

This is neither the time nor place for you to be beating your drum. Please leave it for later. The folk at Kinloss & Warton are more concerned about their & their family's immediate futures.

Those of us who served our RAF careers in Maritime are mourning the loss of a potentially great aeroplane & the closure of a long & heroic chapter in the history of the Royal Air Force.

Coastal RIP :{

JTO...

I'm on AFPS05, and hence AFRS 06, which is the only one I have looked at in detail, especially since yesterday.

Not meaning to criticise, but are you sure you have your facts right vs AFRS 10?

In my particular case, AFRS with less than 4 years to serve (so I probably won't be eligible for any voluntary redundancy scheme :(), redundancy terms are effectively 3 months salary per year (or part year) uncompleted service. So, for example, 2 years uncompleted = 6 months salary in compensation. Other situations quoted, i.e. "leaving with pension achieved but more than 4 years to serve" (12 months salary), "early leaver on a long serve commitment", etc all seem to come out with much more than 3 months salary (see JSP 764).

Is AFRS10 so much worse in comparison to AFRS06, or is there an element of scaremongering here? Just a genuine question...

Bum*er.... :(

Dengue Dude.
You're talking pish. There's NOTHING wrong with MRA4. She flies beautifully. Trust me.

Why was the MRA4 grounded for the last month or so? Not fishing, would genuinely like to know...

Commiserations to all at ISK :( bloody nonsense given some of the crap we're keeping....

like what?

As part of the (rightly so) microscopic examination the aircraft has been subjected to over the last 7 months, a Zonal Hazard was identified that, whilst assessed as being a less than 10 to the minus 15 event (against an overall aircraft system target of 10 to the minus 9), the project decided to delay the return to flight whilst the "issue" was worked and a solution put in place. I say "issue" in the sense that it was identified, asessed and sentenced as part of a robust airworthiness process that we were acutely aware needed to be implemented (common sense and a military legal rqmnt) and had to be seen to be implementing (again, no issue with this, as frustrating as it was for us aircrew we fully supported our engineering brethren in the application of the correct process). The forecast was for a return to flight around end of November this year, with a full program of re-currency training followed by Operational Trials & Evaluation sorties.

One of the many frustrating aspects to all this is that we were doing things properly, the way they should be done. Each time we seemed to get over the hurdle, we would find another in front of us. We fought against antipathy, malice, ignorance and a whole raft of other traps and pitfalls. We did it with good grace, humour and dedication. We understood this was the last large aircraft ever to be built in the UK, we understood its importance to RAF Kinloss, the RN and wider defence but we did not let that immense pressure cause us to lower our standards and as a result of an ever increasing hostility from the treasury, causing timescales to be pushed further to the right as wetried to do more and more with less and less, we got binned. If it was contrived then hats off to whoever it was, a more cleverly disguised Machiavellian scheme I could not imagine.

I cannot say what other platforms are doing, I don't have first hand experience of them but if they are applying the rules with the rigour that we did (and I am sure they are?) then we must have the safest fleets of aircraft in the world (does that last bit sound a little too sarcastic?).

A sad end to what promised to be one of the most capable, flexible, agile and adaptable platforms the RAF had had for years. Still, I look back on my 150 hours airborne (and about 3000 in the simulator) with fond memories and a whistful glint in my eye (possibly caused by a small tear).

That was certainly the case about 3 hours ago when the local news showed my getting airborne from Kinloss in PA04 back in March.:{

What is the general concensus of opinion as to what will happen to the Guys and girls (Aircrew) as there doesn't appear to be many jobs available out there (wider RAF) where they can be gainfully employed?

The Shortfatone probably understands why he had to stop me really losing it a few weeks ago! Cheers and good luck.

From what we are told Manning are up next week to advise us of what will be happening but no individual meetings. My gut feeling is a lot are hanging out for the R package thats been mentioned failing that many will bang in there notice.

I just hope they dont treat the engineers like they did when the MR2 went.

SFO

Tell me I misread your post and MRA4 wasn't grounded due to a 1x10-15 event.

I can speak with some knowledge regarding civvie street pilot opportunities:

Civvie aviation is perhaps the most volatile of industries and who can say what effect these recent 'budget' announcements will have on the UK travelling public and holiday makers during 2011.

Airlines, some of them, are recruiting, if not now then perhaps in time for forthcoming summer season(s), some require the pilot to pay for his/her training (type rating) whilst others not.

Excuse me if I may offend but perhaps most opportunities exist for First Officers (co pilots) and if one reads thru the wannabee threads of this website one may realise there are hundredds and/or thousands of young wannabees trying to get their foot in the door.

I am not a chief pilot so I cannot speak upon behalf of chief pilot(s) but ask yourself this unbiased qiestion, if one were a chief pilot, indeed company director, who would one prefer to be training and operating one's aircraft, young wannabees with perhaps 200hrs of piston time or experienced multi engine jet jockeys?

But the opportunities are not limited to UK, as an EU national the EU is open to one to live and work, so many individuals claim to be willing to work away from home but when push comes to shove they expect to be rostered the opportunity to return home every week or so with travel provided. If one is accustomed to living from a suitcase in some god forsaken place then, keeping one's head down whilst working away from home, to get that foot in the door, build the experience up, shouldn't be a problem.

But ..... one's initial obstacle to overcome is to land that first position whilst without the appropriate type rating.

A ludricrous decision.

Best of luck to all those affected. I sincerely hope that, with hindsight, this will only be those who were going to operate the platform and not the sailors, soldiers, airmen and wider British public who one day may desperately need its capability.

JFZ90
 

There was a little more to it (nothing earth shattering) but, in essence, yes that's about the size of it.

As I say, it was being dealt with (it wasn't a terribly complex issue, fairly straight-forward and a very cheap (pennies not pounds) solution engineering-wise).

'Tis all water under the bridge as they say.

To everyone that I have had the pleasure, privelege and honour of working with on this project over the last 10 years, whether from HQ2Gp, MOD, RAF Kinloss, DE&S Abbeywood, BAES Warton, BAES Woodford, BAES Chadderton, BAES Brough, BAES Farnborough, BAES Prestwick and Ocean Skies Prestwick (coffee and the banter in the lounge is excellent), THALES Crawley (a great simulator that does you all credit), Rockwell Collins Horsham, QinetQ Boscombe Down, Handling Sqn Boscombe Down, ATEC Boscombe Down, MAA FTD Boscombe Down, range controllers at Aberporth, North Coates, Spadeadam (that was a fun trial!!!) and Portland Bill (that was even more fun!!!!), air traffic controllers at Manchester, Woodford, Warton, Fairford, Farnborough and Lossiemouth, le Commandant D'Istres and a dozen other places too numerous to mention.

I salute you all, wish you all the very best of luck in these dark, trying days to come and hope that you, your families and friends keep well. Perhaps we will meet again soon,

Many Regards,

Stumpy :D:D:D