Three days on and I am still thinking about the luncay of the decision.

We end up with a carrier we don't need, dont want, and will never use, and to pay for it we are gettign rid of a capbility that we must have, that other nations are envious of, and that we will use in many ways.

I know this icon has been used a lot in this thread but :ugh:

To me the sensible thing would have been to renegotiate with BAE along the lines of... "if we will cancel one carrier, we will pay the penalty clauses, but we want this extra money to go towards the Nimrod in service support for the next 25 years"

I know its the Sun... but...

Britain must now depend on the French to stave off naval attack | The Sun |News

Don't knock the Sun. I watched Newsnight last night with the Sun's political editor - now you would have thought that was an oxymoron - he was most impressive.

Of course, not just Nimrod at ISK.

With the closure of the base, will the MRT move over to Lossie and if it does, is there even enough volunteers over there to fully man the Team?

I know that their primary role is the rescue of downed aircrew, but how big a gap would their departure from the MRT service leave?

I would guess that the gov't are not prepared to stump up the cash for a full time team in situ so i guess that this will be another asset removed, core skills lost and lives (Service and civlian) put at risk and probably lost.

Has anyone got any good news?

ps are the US P3s still at ISK - thought Joint Warrior had finished?

Certainly heard a P3 taking off yesterday, maybe off to show that they can still defend their side of all of the sub Atlantic internet cabling on which our economies depend. Found this open document on the internet,
http://www.iscpc.org/publications/Ab...PDF_Format.pdf
and I thought Cyber Warfare was one of the priorities of this Government!

Wkipedia also has some interesting articles:
Submarine communications cable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RAF MRT won't be needed up here if Lossie closes!! More of a problem is relocating the RCC and all of its hitec comms setup.

Oops just had someone knocking on my door...

It didn't take long for this: NIMROD MRA4 on eBay (end time 30-Oct-10 20:25:17 BST)

And why not? We have already paid BAES to do the job so why should they not carry on and do what they have been paid to do, rather than fork out the cost of redundancies to the workforce?

This is one of the most idiotic decisions I have ever seen ANY Government make! Don't they know (weren't they briefed?) that the first Tier 1 item in the National Security Strategy Priority Risks is something that Nimrod has been doing for a long, long time (both over water and over land) and would have been doing in the future??? The 4th Tier 1 item is something that Nimrod has played a big part in the past and would have been ideal for in the future! The same goes for the 2nd and 3rd Tier 2 items! Tier 3, item 1 - trained for that; items 2 & 3 - been there, done that; item 5 - trained for that; item 6 - done that; item 7 - you guessed it, a role for Nimrod!!! Add to all these that we, as a nation, have an international commitment to provide SAR over the North Atlantic out to 30W and that we need to protect our Strategic Nuclear Deterrent from possible foe. Un-f**king-believable decision.

The Kipper Fleet have spent decades building their incredible knowledge (in more fields than purely ASW or even maritime), a knowledge that will be eroded and then lost if the decision is not reversed bloody quickly!

To cancel a project that would fulfil most of the NSS Priority Risks and international SAR commitments, that would be able to protect our 'bombers', that would have been a step-change in capability, that IS already paid for, a capability that will cost s#it load more to bring back (because believe me, we DO need a long range MPA and so at some point we WILL need to pay a s#it load to regain that capability) simply shows that the present Prime Minister and Government are totally incompetent.


MadMark!!! :mad:

Thanks to Cameron I am now an EX-lifelong Tory voter!!!

Mad mark,

I was thinking the same thing. Truly multirole, versatile, and covers many of the priorities that were det out in the NSC's report and the SDSR itself (particularly ISTAR and the support of the deterrent.)

Do you think any of "Their Airships" have the balls to speak to CMD or The Doctor and try and get the decision reveresed?

I don't know if it is wishful thinking or a genuine belief by some when they say "decision reversed" about the MRA4 but I have heard it a bit in the last few days.
It's very sad and incredibly difficult for all those involved but the decision will NOT be reversed.
The decision that they came to has been thought over for months and they will have heard all the top level arguments for keeping it from some very articulate, intelligent and respected people.
They chose to ignore that advice and we are where we are.

Jayand

I agree, there is no way the decision will be reversed any time soon - 99.99% never. The RAF need to get on with sorting the mess out for those people left behind from this sorry mess, and that is what I believe Manning is doing right now. The big issue is that because this came as a shock to most people at all levels, as the decision was only finally approved late last week; no forward planning has happened.

I'm still hopeful that we will keep our best people and use them in new areas ( current UORs, increased buy in helos, Project SCAVENGER, etc...). The bad thing for those that thought they would stay at Kinloss for the next 30 years is, it isn't going to happen now. But hey, no one in the RAF is safe from mobility unless they want Preferential Treatment for one tour because of a compassionate case - otherwise it is shape up and ship out to the next posting.

SFO

I hear your points fella, but I'm also hearing all sorts of mini-horror stories that add up to a big mess that I believe MoD finally lost faith in. That is why I believe your new shiny jet was taken away from you. "Throwing good money after bad" comes to mind with little faith that it wouldn't be more and more each year, including the notion that support costs have already spiralled way above the original plan. Sadly, I think the "Cash Cow" has finally been milked dry.

Why is the company still working on it? well here's a conspiracy theory: Seeing as there are believed to be so many issues with the aircraft, maybe the company are trying to rectify them prior to the big meeting with MoD about the "unfit for purpose" debate - or maybe I am just too suspicious?

LJ :ok:

That ship sailed MANY years ago...

Anyone for a Scottish National Air Force- Nimrods, Harriers and Airfields available at a knock down force..................

I cannot remember which newspaper I seen it in yesterday, the MOD has to pay BAE a termination fee now for cancelling the Nimrod Programme. I shall endevour to find it but it just gets better and better.

Not exactly unusual contractiong practice! What else do you expect?

Dont keep fretin lads.T Bungling Baron from Avros will soon sort this small problem out. He will send a couple of t lads from contracts dept with a couple of bulging black briefcases and oil t wheels int ministry and deal will be on again.

During CAS's visit to Kinloss on Weds he does not seem to agree with you, stating that this is a capability that will need replacing in the long term and that we have been driven to this position by the treasury and not by any profound new thinking that deems us not to need an MPA. Although he did categorically say it will not be an MRA4 and it probably would be unmanned.

OK so I'm a civvy type who should know better than to pop up here with a darn fool questionette :rolleyes:

But. DefenceWeb today states

Is there absolutely no chance that MRA4's couldn't be reconfigured as a SIGINT platform so negating the requirement to buy old Boeings for Rivet Joint?

I'm not going to duck, or don a flack jacket. You lot do brave daily - I'm sure I can do it for an evening.

Sir George Cayley

Could BAES do it for less than the ~$Bn 3 x RJ is supposed to be costing us though?

Given the UTTER crass decisions about MRA4 on Tuesday, and now Astute grounded, is it just me, or does anyone else out the there, thinking that our adverseries, be they Cold War or otherwise, MUST be laughing their socks off at "Great" Britain. I think so...

Just tell everyone that they have been converted to unmanned, but rather sneakily have them crewed as before but let all the crews wear those dark black flying suits and wear those snazzy black tapes across their eyes.
Everyone will fall for it.