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The E-3ds represent the UK contribution to the NAEW force, we provide our jets instead of contributing to the funding for the joint wing. If we retired one, we'd have to pay for the other.
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Originally Posted by servodyne
Have you looked over at Davis Montham lately? a bucketful of cheap and cheerful S-3B's are just sitting there looking for an owner. There not an MRA 4 but are fully capable MPA aircraft that would fill the gap left by the MR 2.
Regarding the lack of lobbying by BASE or whatever this years name is, the answer is probably that it wasn't built at Warton. It would also upset their accountants if anything remotely risked the profitability of a substancial land sale (eg, late closure and clearance of Woodford). |
From Hansard.
Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab): Is not the Prime Minister doing precisely what he criticises with regard to Trident? He is putting off the decision and delaying the expenditure, thereby increasing it. He has also cancelled the Nimrod aircraft, rendering our nuclear deterrent less than invulnerable. How is that sensible, never mind strategic? The Prime Minister: Let me first answer the right hon. Gentleman's last question. What we are proposing would mean no reduction in continuous at-sea deterrence, which is vital. We set out that we were committed to Trident's replacement but wanted a value-for-money review, and we asked the Ministry of Defence to go through all the possibilities and look to see how we could extend the life of the existing submarines, work on Trident's replacement and ensure that we had continuous at-sea deterrence all the way through. Those are the sorts of questions, frankly, that the last Government should have asked. It would be irresponsible not to do so if we want to have a full-service nuclear deterrent but want value for money. That is the sort of thing that the last Government should have been asking about. |
The loss to the RAF is bad and many will lose their jobs but not all of those at Kinloss. Many will be absorbed elsewhere and there will be a gradual reduction over may be 12 months or more.
In industry it will be much more sudden. Yesterday, work, today clearing out, tomorrow nothing. |
I wonder if it would have been scrapped if it had been delivered on time and on budget? How many of the powers that be thought that late (really late) and expensive = no good and therefore an easy choice when they had to make significant savings?
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Can anything be salvaged. So many questions.
As taxpayers what have we got for our Nimrod MRA4 money? Can anything be salvaged? What percentage completion is applicable to the 9 airframes under construction? What exactly is the current problem on the flight test aircraft that prevented its safe handover to the RAF. was it fixable in a short timescale? Are the whole fleet going to be broken up in a similar way to Nimrod Mk3,TSR2, Valiant B2. An enquiry should be set up to determine where it all went wrong and procedures put in place to ensure that future procurement procedures are tightened drastically to ensure that this waste of public money is not repeated. The saddest waste of all is the detrimental effect that this will have on so many talented people who have given so much of their lives to this project.
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Winco, Heathhurn,
:D:D:D You don't fancy going into politics, do you? |
Just attended a talk with CAS at 201.
Nice bollocking issued to him from MR B MBE, followed by a huge round of applause from all in attendance. JJ looked like a proud father. Thanks to Mr B and especially to JJ who just managed to get through yesterdays speach. Much respect is due for our ex station commander,its a pity more senior officers are not prepared to stand by there principles and tell the powers to be to shove it. I wish you well in Civvy street. Regards ASWeaty sock |
I wonder if it would have been scrapped if it had been delivered on time and on budget |
Originally Posted by Wrathmonk
(Post 6006802)
... or had been called anything other than Nimrod?
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We just had a brief from a member of the RAF board and he said they put forward a very strong caser to keep the MR4A but it was the PM who dismissed the advise and chopped the fleet. I believe the RAF fought very hard to retain the strategic capability but the PM had a number of options presented to him and chose the Nimrod. As has been said previously, strategic folly for an Island nation. We should have ditched entire Helo fleets (Puma, Merlin) and maybe E3D over the ASW capability.
I can only imagine the Navy must be equally appalled as they now have only limited short range ASW capability to protect the bombers and their precious new carriers. This decision, IMHO, will come back to haunt us. |
Grimweasel
If what you say is correct (and I do not doubt it for a single minute) then CAS and ACAS would do themselves a whole power of good to go public with their beliefs and resign in unison. I have no time for Labour, but I am astonished that the senior arm of the RAF failed miserably to convince conservative politicians on this single matter. It's a disgrace and if either of them had any honour and loyalty to the RAF (aswell as a backbone between them) then they would quit! They should hang their heads in shame. What a sad time for the RAF this is. I only hope that there is some kind of official investigation into the workings of BWOS and someone can explain to the British public why it is cheaper to scrap aircarft that are already built! and also this farce about it costing more NOT to build a ship than it does TO build a ship!! WTF is going on here??? The Winco |
As has been alluded to, I wonder if alternate advice to the PM was that MoD couldn't find anyone willing to sign the Release, in part because the aircraft remained tainted by the name "Nimrod".
Cancellation is a neat way of sweeping a lot of legacy issues under the carpet, especially if there is (a) no inqury into the general MRA4 acquisition fiasco and (b) no prosecution of BAeS, QQ or RAF officers. But it is a high risk strategy and I believe one should write to MPs to ask why this industrial scale waste has been allowed to pass without comment or censure. (In fact, the MoD(PE) 2 Star was be-gonged despite refusing to act when advised of both MRA4 programmatic problems and the systemic failings confirmed by H-C). |
ShortFatOne,
You have put it beautifully. I agree 100% with your sentiments, and knocks on the head some of the pish on this thread, which I, for one am bored sick of and dumbfounded by the niaivety of some of the guff I've read in the last few months. This decision is the poorest one I've ever been privy too, and I have a deep regret for casting my vote at the last election for this "government" that is childish in it's approach to Defence. I've massively enjoyed working with you, and all my colleagues up north at Kinloss, and share the view of ALL at ISK, that this is utterly ridiculous. I too watch the foreign aircraft take off with disbelief.... |
especially if there is...no prosecution of BAeS, QQ or RAF officers. WTF? I look forward to hearing the charges. Care to elaborate? Actually - please don't. I'm too fed up to bite... |
The Irony of it all!
Thanks Betty; likewise, it has been an honour and a privelege working with yourself and everyone else at Kinloss over the years.
Finally got to see the apparent 'justification' for cancellation in the full SDSR report, which appears to be based solely on the premise that £2 Billion will be saved....over the next 10 years. Wow, what a massive and instant saving that is. Not sure it actually includes all the cancellation and disposal costs, can't see how it can, nobody has worked them out yet. The irony? DCinC yesterday and CAS today both had to walk past foreign MPA on their way to explaining to us why we don't need one! You couldn't make it up. Anyway, I am fairly certain that I will be taking the redundancy package (even if it's a McDonald's hat and bib), I no longer wish to be a part of this circus, it ain't funny any more. RIP Coastal.:( |
SFO
The irony? DCinC yesterday and CAS today both had to walk past foreign MPA on their way to explaining to us why we don't need one! You couldn't make it up. |
RIP Coastal indeed!
Born in 1936, willingly gave 74 years of gallant service and sacrifice, only to be cruelly assassinated in 2010. Just before WW II, no less than the First Lord of the Admiralty (A V Alexander) referred to Coastal as "The Cinderella Service," the name lived on. Badly underfunded, housed in huts until the middle '80s (both Squadron accommodation and Messes) yet still we served with pride, professionalism and good cheer. Who will now protect Albion's waters from intrusion, or scour the ocean for "those in peril on the sea? |
SFO, spot on. As ever.
Sgt S. Yes, it WAS pointed out to them. Yes, you couldn't make it up. |
Sfo much has been talked of this fabled redundancy package but I have seen no details, do you know any more?
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