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-   -   Ghurka Rifleman PUN VC. Triumph! (Merged) (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/277365-ghurka-rifleman-pun-vc-triumph-merged.html)

mojocvh 26th May 2007 07:42

The VC stuck to his chest has earned him the right to park his arse in Great Britian for however long he likes and 'demand' all the bleedin medical care that we can currently get in to him.

MoJo

YesTAM 26th May 2007 08:13

I've forwarded details of this mess to three weblogs and all have posted them.

If he can't go to Britain, I'd like to see him and his colleagues here in Australia. We could do with all of them.

I've never seen better servicemen. Carrying GPMG's all day without raising a sweat when I was black with it and exhausted...... Sending "naughty postcards" to the CO back in Hong Kong......Finding a frog in ones bedding courtesy of a "thoughtful" Gurkha.

Please send them here.

JessTheDog 26th May 2007 13:20

There will be a dedicated petition on the Downing Street website shortly...assuming the civil servants don't try and wriggle out of it!


We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to allow Victoria Cross holder Tul Bahadur Pun to live in the United Kingdom

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?cat=911

Tigs2 26th May 2007 13:29

Good on you YesTAM
Here is the link to the Radio 5 live phone in yesterday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/nolan.shtml
You need to fast forward to about 2 hours 9 minutes onwards for the relevant bit.


45 000 Gurkhas have died for this country.
150 000 Gurkhas have been seriously injured fighting for this country

Listening to this program, and it is well worth 40 minutes of your time i personally find it an emotional roller coaster. I don't know if i was crying whilst listening to it through sheer anger, or through sadness

Tigs2 26th May 2007 15:27

I have emailed the whole saga to BBC News 24, so we wait and see.

In the mean time here is an extract from the Nepali Times who interviewed Mr Pun on what happened that day. These are his words.

Pun single handedly fought off dozens of Japanese defenders, even while the rest of his platoon was wiped out. This and other testimonies of living Gurkha soldiers are taken from Lahurey ka Katha by Dev Bahadur Thapa, published by Himal books, and translated for Nepali Times in this space every week.


"I was pulling out my gun again when our commanding officer, a short man, appeared and said, “Well done, Pun”. He asked if I was all right, and I replied that everything was not all right. I told him that there were quite a lot of enemies inside the trench.
He promised to send the flame-thrower, then vanished. On the lower side there was a British regiment which sent a flame-thrower. The flame even keeps burning on water, and if it falls on stone or iron it just turns them into soil. This weapon is best for trench warfare. The fire is so dangerous that if it falls on cloth or a piece of flesh, it just sticks to the skin.

Many enemies were roasted alive. Others fled through the passage that we had kept open. However, they didn’t get far. Most only took a few steps and then fell down. The enemy troops were wiped out and we entered the town.
There we saw that the enemy troops and our own men in hand-to-hand combat, making it impossible to fire powerful weapons. Some of the soldiers started firing, while others began fighting with their hands like people under the influence of alcohol and a few were buried under stones and bricks. A few were struck with sticks or rifle butts. There was a sense of the confusion one sees during a festival.

This was followed by the harsh sound of a whistle blown by their commander. They stopped fighting and ran away. A whole lot of soldiers who had been taking shelter in the town started escaping by jumping into the river. The water carried about half of them away, but the rest managed to reach the other side. For a while the whole river was covered with human bodies. The civilians had already abandoned the town, and following the flight of the enemy soldiers, we captured the town.

In the evening we had an assembly, when respective commanders discussed strategies for the next day and also assessed who had fought well and which tactics had worked. Reports were collected on who did best in that day’s capture of the town. Our platoon sergeant reported that except for two men, the rest of our platoon had been killed. He mentioned my name, and told them that I had done excellently during the siege of the bridge and also mentioned that I was the first to get into the enemy camp. The commander added that he was present at the time and had seen the event with his own eyes. A strong recommendation letter was written and dispatched to the war office.

On one day I had been assigned to bring the rations, which were carried by mules. When I arrived at the headquarters, a message had arrived from the war office. The clerk on duty took me aside and said, “Pun, one of the soldiers from your company has done an excellent job. I have collected the message. In all probability he will get a gallantry award.” He gave me the message and told me to give it to the company. I glanced at it, and saw my name on it.

The following day, the commander sent for me. I saluted him, and then he patted me on the back and told me he had received the reply to his letter. “Well done!” he said, “You will receive a gallantry award, but I can’t say right now what class of award it will be. Probably you will receive a very high order gallantry award.” At the time, I was an ordinary rifleman. He told me that I had been elevated to the rank of sergeant and asked me to collect soldiers and form a section.

Our assault on the town had taken place on 23 June, 1944. I was awarded the Victoria Cross for our assault on the town that day. Captain Elmond also got a Victoria Cross. A few months later, I received the gallantry award in Delhi from Lord Louis Mountbatten, who was the viceroy of India and the supreme commander of the allied forces in Asia at the time.

The day after the fighting, the camp was cleaned and an inquiry of how many were killed in the assault took place. The attack on the town had cost us the lives of 11 British officers, 17 Gurkha officers and 773 others below the rank of jamadar (Gurkha lieutenant). After this, we reassembled at Dehara Dun and then went home on a two-month paid leave."
So a man presented the VC by Lord Mountbatten Viceroy of India does not possess sufficiently strong ties with the UK to warrant our appreciation and assistance in his time of need.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

waspy77 26th May 2007 16:30

Sorry guys, no longer serving so don't usually post but an exceptional thread, after 5 hours I'm now calm enough to type.

"As I write these last words, my thoughts return to you who were my comrades, the stubborn and indomitable peasants of Nepal. Once more I hear the laughter with which you greeted every hardship. Once more I see you in your bivouacs or about your fires, on forced march or in the trenches, now shivering with wet and cold, now scorched by a pitiless and burning sun. Uncomplaining you endure hunger and thirst and wounds; and at the last your unwavering lines disappear into the smoke and wrath of battle. Bravest of the brave, most generous of the generous, never had country more faithful friends than you".
The words of Professor Sir Ralph Turner, MC, who served with the 3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles in the First World War.

These words appear on the contact page of the Gurkha Welfare Trust http://www.gwt.org.uk/contact.html

Chugalug2 26th May 2007 16:32

Rifleman Tulbahadur Pun VC, 6th Gurkha Rifles
 
HM and MP emailed and Petition signed. Let him in!

Ivor Fynn 26th May 2007 18:06

Journalists
 
If there are any journo's out there who can publicise this, I think we would all appreciate it - Sky, BBc and all papers where are you now!!!

Ivor

- V unlike me to ask journo's for help, but I think the sentiment here warrants it

OOpsIdiditagain 26th May 2007 18:56

Is there a Downing St petition yet? I couldn't find it. Have e-mailed various and pointed a journo mate of mine who worked on the recent Abandoned soldier program to this thread.

waspy77 26th May 2007 19:18

Link to e-petition
 
Oops,

This petition asks for Gurkhas in general to be granted British Citizenship

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/gurkhas-rights/

Tigs2 26th May 2007 19:20

YES YES YES!!!
BBC 24 are going to run an article starting about 2030 :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok: 10 mins time!!!
Well done everybody, keep the pressure up. I think there could be a result very soon now.

Edited for update. Just seen the article, the anchor man seemed genuinely unable to comprehend how the civil service could have refused Mr Pun VC entry. The home office and Bliar cannot ignore this now.

A Sayers 26th May 2007 20:23

I am truely ashamed of what we appear to have become. I hope this becomes "sticky" and a suitable fund is set up.

Maple 01 26th May 2007 21:03

well if it don't I'll be bumping it 'till Friday

shandyman 26th May 2007 21:48

Boiiiing
 
Most definately back to the top. Furious at those that would allow this man to be turned away in his hour of need after he had offered everything to this country, in its hour of need.

Chugalug2 26th May 2007 21:57


well if it don't I'll be bumping it 'till Friday
And me, to which point how about Gurkha stories of which there are countless numbers?
When a cadet we had an Army instructor who had the honour to be attached to the Gurkhas in WW2. He led a patrol in Burma. Every evening they would stop, set up the radio and he would listen in for the latest Sitreps. He would brief his men on where the Japs were now thought to be and plan an attack. He said that they would then dig a trench, tie him up and place him in it. His orders would be carried out to the letter, the Jap position taken and consolidated. A runner would then be sent back to release the Sahib so that he could rejoin them. Their logic for all this was that the radio told them what they needed to know to kill Japs, but only the Sahib could understand it, so he had to be kept alive at all costs!
OK maybe he was spinning a yarn, but like all such stories about these excellent troops, one based on fond respect for their bravery and loyalty. :ok:
Let him in!

Tigs2 26th May 2007 22:30

Chugalug
Just two stories both of Gurkhas awarded the VC, both still alive. They are from the same family! Of the 13 recipients of the VC still alive, 4 are Gurkhas

Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung


He was 27 years old, and a Rifleman in the 4th Battalion of The 8th Gurkha Rifles, Indian Army during the Second World War when the following deed took place for which he was awarded the VC.
On 12 May-13 May 1945 at Taungdaw, Burma (now Myanmar), Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung was manning the most forward post of his platoon which bore the brunt of an attack by at least 200 of the enemy. Twice he hurled back grenades which had fallen on his trench, but the third exploded in his right hand, blowing off his fingers, shattering his arm and severely wounding him in the face, body and right leg. His two comrades were also badly wounded, but the rifleman, now alone and disregarding his wounds, loaded and fired his rifle with his left hand for four hours, calmly waiting for each attack which he met with fire at point blank range.

Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung


He was about 24 years old, and a Rifleman in the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Gurkha Rifles, British Indian Army during the Second World War when the following deed took place for which he was awarded the VC.
On 5 March 1945 at Snowdon East, near Tamandu, Burma (now Myanmar), a section was pinned down by heavy enemy fire and was also being subjected to sniping from a tree. Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung killed the sniper and later when the section was again attacked, he dashed forward under continuous fire personally clearing four enemy foxholes and he also silenced a light machine-gun. With the help of a Bren gunner and two riflemen he then repelled an enemy counter-attack on the captured bunker with heavy losses. His action in clearing these positions was decisive in capturing the objective.
We are not worthy!!

Ewan Whosearmy 26th May 2007 22:44

Is it me, or is it also pretty damning that of almost 5.000 hits for this thread at the time of posting, that only c.30 people have been arsed to post their support for this man here?

I appreciate that there are many who probably feel unable to do so (be it because they are not british citizens or whatever), but there are regular posters on PPruNe who have still not lent their voice to this matter, and who are blatantly Brits.

So, come on. Speak up!

dum_my 26th May 2007 22:56

Perhaps the bureaucrats behind this decision need to be reminded that a VC comes before all other British orders, decorations and medals.

Including any gongs that the PM may hand out.

http://www.honours.gov.uk/honours/wear.aspx

dum_my 26th May 2007 23:10

Sunday Times, 27 May, Rod Liddle's column:

May 27, 2007
A rape conviction is better than a VC if you want to stay in Britain
Rod Liddle

Here’s a quiz. Not a very good quiz because you will know the answer before you’ve finished reading the question. Whether you can comprehend it is another matter. An awful lot of immigrants are allowed into Britain these days and very few deported because they are undesirable. However, as a nation we must draw the line somewhere. So, using your understanding of How Britain Is, estimate which of the following four aspirant British citizens has been told to get out and stay out. And which three can stay?

1) Mouloud Sihali, Algerian. Lived at Finsbury Park mosque, breeding ground of Islamic terrorism. Described in court as “unprincipled and dishonest”. Illegal immigrant.

2) Yonis Dirie, Somalian. Drug addict, armed robber and burglar. Convicted of raping a young woman in London. Illegal immigrant.

3) Tul Bahadur Pun VC, Nepalese. Won the Victoria Cross for taking out a Japanese machinegun post in 1944 in Burma single-handedly. Now 84, of unblemished conduct, suffering from heart problems and diabetes and would like treatment here. Legal applicant.

4) “AS”, Libyan. Islamic extremist involved with Milan terrorist group. Court accepts that he is likely to try to kill us all again quite soon. Illegal immigrant.

You got it, didn’t you? Old Pun’s application was rejected because - and here’s another punchline, in case the first wasn’t funny enough - he “failed to demonstrate” that he had “strong ties with Britain”. How much stronger do you want? There can be hardly a soul who wouldn’t be happy to have Pun here. And not one who could make a case for allowing Dirie, the robber-rapist, say, to get preferential treatment. Some of us would have happily dispatched him back to Mogadishu strapped to a missile.

There is no great objection to immigration in this country; the objection is to how it is done and who benefits, exemplified by the cases I quote above.

I suspect the public feels there are people who should be allowed in - people to whom we owe a profound debt of gratitude (like Pun), or those whose countries we have let down in one way or another (such as the Hong Kong Chinese or the black Zimbabweans). And yet it seems we do precisely the opposite.

Libyan and Algerian extremists who feel the regimes in their home countries are not sufficiently rigorous are allowed to stay because we worry they might be bumped off at home - regardless of what threat they pose to us.

I would vote for any party that pledged to extricate us from the international legislation that insists on such absurdities.

By then, however, it will most likely be too late for Tul Bahadur Pun VC. The Japs couldn’t kill him - but we’re not making a bad job of it.

oldfella 26th May 2007 23:20

The treatment of this man, the holder of the highest honour in our land, leaves me speachless and ashamed.

There are only twelve living holders of this honour, 6 British, 4 Gurkhas and 2 Australian. http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/aalivevc.htm

Regardless of the arguments over pay / pensions he deserves entry to this country and should be treated and respected.

YesTAM 27th May 2007 02:28

Just bumping this to the top of the list. I'm going to contact the Australian Returned Servicemans League tomorrow and see if I can get a comment and a press release from them. If Sgt. Pun VC can't come to Britain, maybe we can invite him down here.

By the way, I assume we have Hercs going in and out of Afghanistan. How much of a diversion would be needed to pick him up?

Robert Cooper 27th May 2007 02:41

I'm still sending emails everyone I can. Keep the pressure up chaps. Maybe we can make a difference on this one.

Bob C

A Sayers 27th May 2007 05:39

WO1 (RSM) Pun
 
To keep this bounced near the top (sticky please moderators), we have been calling Mr Pun a Pte and a Sgt. His correct rank according to the VC site is Warrant Officer First Class.
As a JO I remember trying to snatch 15 minutes sleep each hour in a waterlogged trench shared with three others. We kept rotating our positions under the overhead cover to prevent trench foot as we were immersed below the waist. A Gurkha patrol came in, every bit as soaked as us. I never saw bigger smiles and more enthusiasm for the job from anyone. They lifted my spirits just to know they were on our side. As for their curries.... Wow!

Thinking of some of the antics of my jocks. I never saw a Ghurkha who was not a credit to his unit. For fitness, turn out and elan they were/are the best line infantry. Off duty their young soldiers are more likely to be seen in a suit than scruffs. What excellent future UK citizens, but no. We clearly need more terrorists et al.

polyglory 27th May 2007 05:50

Truly disgusting, petition signed and snail mail on the way.

I seved with them in Malaysia, none finer anywhere.

wardie 27th May 2007 06:42

I cannot believe that this hero has been insulted in this manner!!

Britain called upon these young men and they gave their all and more WITHOUT asking for much if anything at all. This in my eyes should elevate them above any other in the queue for access to citizenship of the UK.

It's a damn disgrace that a country that used to spout its heitage is now trying to ignore it.

Wardie

ScotsmanCalledPaddy 27th May 2007 08:19

Gobsmacked. Absolutely feckin gobsmacked.

Petition signed and email sent.

Chugalug2 27th May 2007 09:21

Boiiiiing! More emails, more petitions, more posts, more comments please everyone! Keep this pot boiling.
The Gurkhas were our secret weapon in Borneo. The Brits, Malays and Singaporeans would get varying degrees of Indonesian incursions into their sectors, the Gurkhas wouldn't. We would fly them down for a tour from their Hong Kong depot, returning with those that they were replacing. I remember how outbound they were all smiles and animation, and inbound downcast and quiet. I commented on this to one of their officers, saying that it was obviously a tiring experience for them. "Oh, that's not it", he replied,"those going out are keen to do what they are trained for and like best, those coming back have only depot routine to look forward to!".
We have never been served by more loyal or brave men.
LET HIM IN!

ScotsmanCalledPaddy 27th May 2007 10:11

Another email sent...

http://www.vchero.co.uk/

ZH875 27th May 2007 10:57

Email sent.



Tul Bahadur Pun VC, I salute you.

Thank you for all you have done, and may this government grovel at your feet after you have been granted access.

flower 27th May 2007 11:34

I have emailed my MP and signed the petition.

If this does one good thing though it may bring to the public eye the appalling way in which Gurkha's, a strong resourceful brave group of men, are treated as second hand citizens within the British Armed forces. Anyone who has ever served alongside them (they helped train me during my RMAS days and boy do they love to act and do dramatic deaths for you) consider it an honour. If this helps highlight their cause and allows them equal rights within the British Army then it will be a good day.

Garfs 27th May 2007 11:46

After having just Mr PUN VC's account of what happened that day, I find it o be the most humble account of such a heroic feat.

Not once did he big himself up or try to make himself look good.

A True hero in my eyes

om15 27th May 2007 12:26

e mail sent to HM Office.
Best regards om15

Roadster280 27th May 2007 12:32

I can only echo the sentiments of all.

I wish I could give him my British passport. I won't be needing it. I'd have died for it, and all it stood for when I was serving. Sadly, it no longer stands for what I got all stirred up about and joined the mob.

Absolutely disgraceful. Whatever pen pushing irreverent turd made this decision needs to walk a few miles in WO1 Pun's boots.

larssnowpharter 27th May 2007 12:52

Reading this thread has bought tears of shame to my eyes.

It totally beggars belief that some pen pusher in a Ministry somewhere has seen fit to deny this gentleman entry to the UK. I have served with the Gurkhas and, indeed, been treated by a Gurkha medic on one occasion. Great soldiers, proud men and a credit to their Nation.

Letter sent to HM and PM requesting that he:

1. Be allowed entry
2. That he be treated at the taxpayers expense
3. That he receive an official apology for the callous way in which he has been treated.

Chugalug2 27th May 2007 13:26

Mr Pun should have automatic right of abode here because he is a VC, and at least as much right of abode here, having served in the Indian Army, as anyone else who thus served. Any ex British Army Gurkhas should have an automatic right of abode here and a full British Army Pension. After the wretch who turned him down is obliged to "reconsider" that decision, the British Government can reconsider our moral obligations to these faithful and courageous servants of the Crown and invite them to come and live with us if they so wish. I for one will be there to greet them when they arrive!
More recollections of Borneo from over forty years ago; a fellow pilot was detached from 48Sqn to the Whirlwinds in Borneo, as ALO. All went well until it came time to insert the Gurkhas into their patrol areas. Pilots complained that their aircraft were clearly overloaded as they were struggling to clear the forest canopy around the landing site. Our man retorted that all the W&B was done as with previous troops at standard operational troop weight. "Well then, go for actual weights", he was told. From somewhere he obtained a "butchers balance" with a hook above and below the dial. He hung the balance on a tree, and then hung an obliging Gurkha by his webbing to the balance. As may be expected the reading was well below standard. He removed the Gurkha and, with some help, replaced him with his equipment and pack. The bough groaned alarmingly, the needle quivering in uncharted areas of the dial! After prolonged negotiations the Gurkhas reluctantly dispensed with the some of the veritable arsenal they were prepared to shoulder for the next two weeks trek!
Let him in!

Hoobie Schnaps 27th May 2007 13:33

E-Mailed my MP and Lord Bramall. Sadly Whit recess at the moment so not sure when they will pick up the note. Hopefully soon.

Molesworth 27th May 2007 14:28

Agree with all said before. Petition signed, e-mail to MP en-route. If you want to see some depth of feeling have a look on the Army Rumour Network www.arrse.co.uk They are giving it huge support. This whole sorry episode speaks volumes about this shambles of a government. :ugh::mad:
M

Hoobie Schnaps 27th May 2007 15:10

Just emailed Boris Johnson. As a journalist in his own right (and someone who appears to have a sane view on many of the issues out there) I hope that he will look on this with a positive attitude.

Tigs2 27th May 2007 15:23

AaaaaaaaaaaGH!
 
:mad::mad:

This is from ARRSE some one found this article from the Sun (yes i know you can't believe everything in the rag but this seems pukka)


Gurkha war hero's agony

By TOM NEWTON DUNN
Defence Editor

MUSEUM chiefs have broken a Gurkha war hero’s heart by refusing to let him see his treasured Victoria Cross one final time.

Fearless Lieutenant Tulbahadur Pun, 89, won the nation’s top medal for bravery during World War II.

Aged just 21, he single-handedly stormed two Japanese armed positions with his Bren Gun blazing from his hip after his comrades were wiped out in Burma.

Now the ageing hero — who lives in poverty in Nepal — has begged his old Army regiment’s museum to send him his medal so he can wear it with pride before he dies.

But museum bosses have refused, saying the VC no longer belongs to him.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Tulbahadur — one of only 12 winners of the VC still alive — is too unwell to travel to the UK.

He said he handed over the medal to the Gurkha Museum in Winchester, Hants, for safekeeping in the ’70s on officers’ advice.


He told The Sun: “Until 1995, I used to go to the UK and wear my Victoria Cross. Now I would like to wear it again before I leave the Earth — I can’t understand why they won’t let me.”

The grandfather of 15 is forced to spend all his VC pension on medicines for his heart problems.

London barrister Rebekah Wilson, who is representing him, said: “The medal is something he cherishes. Time is not on his side and I think it would be shameful if he did not get to see his medal again.”

But Gurkha Museum curator Gerald Davies said: “Tulbahadur Pun’s medal has been donated to the museum by his regimental association.

“We have a duty of care to ensure this medal is available to the public to see and it is secure.”

The citation for Tulbahadur’s VC praises his “outstanding courage and superb gallantry” in capturing the Japanese machine-gun posts and killing three enemies.

Full story

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006320627,00.html


IT IS HIS BLOODY VC!! Next people to mail--- The curator of The Gurkha Museum in Winchester.

Someone call me an ambulance please. My blood has turned to gas:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Can any of the boys from 22 arrange to return the VC to its rightful owner.? They got our Tiger back from the 'Swift bar' in Aldergrove, and i think the security there was much better than at this museum:ok:

forget 27th May 2007 15:31

Here, save you the trouble
[email protected]


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